Discussion On Command-Civilian/Medical Interaction

[doodeeda]

In theory, yes, that's how it works. The issue is that it's not how it works. All IC events that would normally be dealt with by sec are dealt with by MPs.
Cargo problems.
Fights.
Mutinies require a heavy backing first, essentially removing their usefulness.
Things like engineers taking metal from engineering.
CL breaking the law (Considered self antagging)

CM doesn't have antags. Law breaks are rule breaks, this will eventually be considered powergaming and handled OOC. Minor stuff will be handled by sec, very stupidly minor stuff that is just nitpicking, anything else you normally end up dealing with SSD players because they've already been banned for it.

I don't understand where you're getting at with those examples. Yes, those are all things that MPs could and should handle. CLs that have been approved to be an antag may be dealt with by command through the use of MPs. MPs are useful in mutiny situations. How do you come to this conclusion that all law breaks are rule breaks? A fight that is properly escalated is dealt with by MPs, not admins. Powergaming is dealt by admins, not MPs. How are you going to, as an MP, deal with a Spec that is bringing their extra powerpack to the planet? ... Also, Coroneljones gives MPs stuff to do when marines disobey his orders. Another example: Angry survivor on the Sulaco is threatening to shoot up people..call in the MPs.

[Crab_Spider]

THIS SO MUCH.

This is why MP is so boring, because all the major shit is already handled, so the only people who go MP are newbies, assholes who try to bend Marine Law backwards, and mods who go MP due to its low intensity.

Oh and for the Auto shotgun.

Or maybe people play MP because they can create RP themselves. Bending the law backwards isn't possible, since they're literally clarified and what's there cover just about everything. Unless you're only saying this because something didn't go your way, because that's the only way to invalidate the people playing the role.

[Swagile]

Or maybe people play MP because they can create RP themselves. Bending the law backwards isn't possible, since they're literally clarified and what's there cover just about everything. Unless you're only saying this because something didn't go your way, because that's the only way to invalidate the people playing the role.

The entire reason this thread exists is because of Marine Law being abused for the amusement of the few, while crippling the many, so ????

[Crab_Spider]

The entire reason this thread exists is because of Marine Law being abused for the amusement of the few, while crippling the many, so ????

So?

[Swagile]

So?

Thats the definition of breaking the laws backwards in order to screw with people.

[Crab_Spider]

Thats the definition of breaking the laws backwards in order to screw with people.

So?

[Swagile]

So?

So if you don't find anything wrong with that, you fit into the "jackass" category of people who play MP.

Congratulations?

[Crab_Spider]

So if you don't find anything wrong with that, you fit into the "jackass" category of people who play MP.

Congratulations?

Mhm, so?

[NoahKirchner]

I don't understand where you're getting at with those examples. Yes, those are all things that MPs could and should handle. CLs that have been approved to be an antag may be dealt with by command through the use of MPs. MPs are useful in mutiny situations. How do you come to this conclusion that all law breaks are rule breaks? A fight that is properly escalated is dealt with by MPs, not admins. Powergaming is dealt by admins, not MPs. How are you going to, as an MP, deal with a Spec that is bringing their extra powerpack to the planet? ... Also, Coroneljones gives MPs stuff to do when marines disobey his orders. Another example: Angry survivor on the Sulaco is threatening to shoot up people..call in the MPs.

Yes, they are things that MPs could and should handle. But they're not handled by MPs, they're handled by admins currently. All of those things, if you go and do them right now, will get you either banned or jobbanned. Powergaming is a different story, that should be handled by the admins and not by the MPs.

[doodeeda]

Yes, they are things that MPs could and should handle. But they're not handled by MPs, they're handled by admins currently. All of those things, if you go and do them right now, will get you either banned or jobbanned. Powergaming is a different story, that should be handled by the admins and not by the MPs.

I do not believe that is correct. Am I wrong in thinking that admins do not get involved in properly escalated fights? Also..how is an admin going to stop an antag CL that they allowed to be antag and kill people etc? That makes no sense.

[Swagile]

I do not believe that is correct. Am I wrong in thinking that admins do not get involved in properly escalated fights? Also..how is an admin going to stop an antag CL that they allowed to be antag and kill people etc? That makes no sense.

I think he's talking about antag CL's who weren't authorized by admins.

Aka going back to the topic of admins handling everything a MP should be handling since your only job for high profile shit tends to be "drag body to cryo because he got banned and is now SSD".

[NoahKirchner]

I do not believe that is correct. Am I wrong in thinking that admins do not get involved in properly escalated fights? Also..how is an admin going to stop an antag CL that they allowed to be antag and kill people etc? That makes no sense.

No, I am not talking about antagging CLs, I am referring to self antagging CLs (If you follow the rules that currently define self antagging as a CL, which are pretty strict). If they break the law beyond minor trespassing, even if it makes sense IC, they will still get in trouble. As far as properly escalated fights, no, those are a roleplay convention. I mean fights as in fights in cargo, fights at briefing, where marines are being rowdy little shits. If it gets bad, instead of having the MPs use their riot gear and do their job, the admins just spam clusterbangs and threaten bans until it calms down.

[Swagile]

No, I am not talking about antagging CLs, I am referring to self antagging CLs (If you follow the rules that currently define self antagging as a CL, which are pretty strict). If they break the law beyond minor trespassing, even if it makes sense IC, they will still get in trouble. As far as properly escalated fights, no, those are a roleplay convention. I mean fights as in fights in cargo, fights at briefing, where marines are being rowdy little shits. If it gets bad, instead of having the MPs use their riot gear and do their job, the admins just spam clusterbangs and threaten bans until it calms down.

Yeah, pre-deployment shit. I actually got noted for taking off a MP's boots; I got baton'd by that same MP as it was just a joke and we called it a day. No one gave a shit after that and I took a seat again. Then I got ahelped by a moderator and noted for it, despite it already being dealt with ICly by a MP.

Admins literally just deal with everything that gives MP's a job unless its REALLY minor shit or approved by admins.

[4thsurviver]

I mean fights as in fights in cargo, fights at briefing, where marines are being rowdy little shits. If it gets bad, instead of having the MPs use their riot gear and do their job, the admins just spam clusterbangs and threaten bans until it calms down.

Admins step in during these situations? Its never happened to me when I'm getting my ass beat by a mob at the cargo line or getting my ribs crushed by a power loader by the cargo staff when I play MP. Would have saved me a lot of trouble.

[Aeleto]

As someone that plays CO and XO often there's a thin line between making rounds interesting and being a major shitler. The latter happened.

[Sneakyr]

Noah is completely right on how IC laws can become rules enforced by the staff, so I don't need to reiterate his point.
I will mention this, however: these things are done on a case-by-case or admin-by-admin bases. Something one admin intervenes for is likely something that another admin will not intervene for. Therefore, it's easily possible to have wildly different experiences with admin intervention. The IC laws becoming rules, however, still stands as it was announced in-game something along the lines of "anyone continuing this action will be warned & noted, with further possible punishments".

[Kavrick]

Noah is completely right on how IC laws can become rules enforced by the staff, so I don't need to reiterate his point.
I will mention this, however: these things are done on a case-by-case or admin-by-admin bases. Something one admin intervenes for is likely something that another admin will not intervene for. Therefore, it's easily possible to have wildly different experiences with admin intervention. The IC laws becoming rules, however, still stands as it was announced in-game something along the lines of "anyone continuing this action will be warned & noted, with further possible punishments".

Has that actually ever happened? Ic laws becoming rules.

[Crab_Spider]

Has that actually ever happened? Ic laws becoming rules.

IC laws that are intertwined with the rules are ; murder (griefing unless properly roleplayed and escalated), sexual assault (ERP, zero tolerance), ID theft, unauthorized changes to the ship without a good reason (i.e MTs superheating the vents, making a bar,making constructions in space during peacetime/ when there was a breach or even changing the ID level of an airlock), CPLs and under possessing spec gear.

However, there's a difference between breaking IC law and breaking the game rules. Fighting someone with no IC reason and without an ahelp generates combat logs and makes the situation look like a griefing incident. Shooting someone because they "stole your gun" also breaks the rules unless the incident was "the tabled me and stripped me of my weapons and armor for slipping him with soap."

IC laws however should be dealt with ICly, unless the incident was a griefing incident, ERP, or players who are powergaming to the extent it will cause potential harm to other players.

[NoahKirchner]

Has that actually ever happened? Ic laws becoming rules.

Yes. Trespassing and taking the metal in engineering and not being a shit at roundstart (previously handled by MPs). Beyond that, the escalation rules used to be stupidly strict so those would generally get taken by admins when it really was an IC event. They appear less strict now (or nobody fights anymore).

[doodeeda]

Well, when taking the metal in engineering becomes an every round thing..it becomes an OOC thing as well.

[NoahKirchner]

Well, when taking the metal in engineering becomes an every round thing..it becomes an OOC thing as well.

Yes.

[Symbiosis]

The badmin part of this was where we were told by the other Admin that mutiny over medical supplies wasn't warranted only to have the same admin tell us later that the chance to mutiny was early in the round, now it's too late (and laugh at us).

Would be fine if we didn't have aliens meta rushing Survivors, free captured people and recapturing them, not to mention the hugger combat which isn't fun. I'd prefer buffed aliens if the goal was for the Aliens to just kill us every round (which can make for fun RP), but pain-crit to death from a single misfired round due to clunky mechanics or being constantly freed/recaptured is pretty much the antithesis of fun. But yeah, onto Jack Knight. I was surprised he was an Admin, as every time he's been a CO he's been so anti-Marine that you'd think he was a saboteur commander.