Next maps atmosphere

[Crab_Spider]

I mean, many servers are capable of doing multi-levels, and we've even done some multi-level buildings before. IE. Halloween map from way back when. We could maybe pull it off?

Eh. Our old code is too out of date to adapt to the current. Especially with how BYOND works.

[CrimsonAerospace]

Eh. Our old code is too out of date to adapt to the current. Especially with how BYOND works.

We also have one of the most organized development teams of our community. Not THE best mind you, but very talented.

[Crab_Spider]

We also have one of the most organized development teams of our community. Not THE best mind you, but very talented.

The BYOND engine makes even the most talented developers into chronic alchoholics.

[misto]

it still wouldnt hope to capture the full challenges and opportunities of an urban setting properly. the best vertical interactions ingame are tossing flares and grens up and down ladders. no shooting from upper storey windows, no aliens climbing in and out of them, etc. its still a 2d game at heart

[lcass123]

The issue isn't displaying what below we can easily do that, OSE isolation did that and it was a very neat mechanic however nobody below could do anything against it. What we can do is have multi layered ships or bases seperated by significant amounts, for instance for the WY-Endeavour mockup I am working on it will have 3 layers with each having a specific purpose.

[CrimsonAerospace]

The BYOND engine makes even the most talented developers into chronic alchoholics.

I mean, we already use multiple layers. Now, Baystation has been able to make a very stable use of stairs. We have working elevators and ladders. We just need two Z-Levels, one for the base of the map, a second for the upper building levels. Now this is coming from someone with limited experience mapping, but that doesn't seem too difficult, seeing as we already use multiple levels for the Almayer, and Ice Colony. Ice Colony is a stable map, not any extra, noticeable lag from other maps, and it's multi-level.

So, we just take one big, open Z-Level for a map, and a second level that holds all the upper floors of buildings. Of course, we couldn't have windows, because it wouldn't look right, but we could emulate the feeling.

[Trench007]

This is the current progress on the mockup, for a proper version I would certainly change a few things such as adding more maintenence. I would redesign command and probably expand the north a little bit.

Are you still working on it, or have you stopped with the introduction of the prison map? I haven't actually played on the map yet, but isn't it a space-station prison?

[Feweh]

Theyll most likely be no further multi-level maps.
We learnt our lesson with Ice Colony and the others.

[Trench007]

Theyll most likely be no further multi-level maps.
We learnt our lesson with Ice Colony and the others.

That basically means that the devs will spend more time on making one really good level, instead of making multiple ones that are barely used or seen. Also, didn't someone say one leveled maps have better server performance? Which, is especially important considering the server population keeps growing more and more, it just makes sense.

[davidofmk771]

I'm thinking lava planet, desert planet, water planet, ice planet, cat planet, or huge industrial wasteland.

Or maybe an an ancient Engineer facility/ship of some sort???

[carlarc]

cat planet is the way to go so long as the cats are invincible

[lcass123]

Are you still working on it, or have you stopped with the introduction of the prison map? I haven't actually played on the map yet, but isn't it a space-station prison?

I stopped on it because I started working as a mapper on another server, I will probably continue with it at some point.

Theyll most likely be no further multi-level maps.
We learnt our lesson with Ice Colony and the others.

I actually don't think that is the issue with ice colony, I think the main issue with ice colony was that it was a normal sized map + a large underground area and that it had huge slow down mechanics on marines which made the map seem even bigger. The design i'm trying to go for here removes most of the issues there, the marines and aliens don't get a slow down and can freely move about the ship, the other Z levels are much smaller and the main level is not enough to be a complete map on its own (about 1/3 the size of LV at the moment).

[Hulkamania]

I don't see why you couldn't have a space themed map, I mean look at Alien: Isolation.

There were explosions, there were large open areas, there were close quarters moments. A space station in this day and age in the lore is HUGE, like multi-level city sized stations that people live on for very long periods of time. These types of installations would obviously be built to withstand damages without compromising the rest of the ship. This would also make atmospherics an actual issue instead of just "that thing we all ignore that comes up once every 20 rounds"

Have three levels of the map instead of two, or more! The station could have an atmosphere already, but breaches would become an issue for marines. Have armored space suits, but in limited supply.

Aliens in the lore can exist in a vacuum just fine, let them use the outside of the ship to flank marine expeditions. Hell you can just rip off Alien: Isolation alltogether, have the AI of the ship go haywire, locking things down. Let the marines use pre-existing installations for defense and offense. It's a wonderful setting that lets a whole slew of new mechanics be introduced via machinery. Survivors could play an important role because they can actually operate the existing ID required doors and devices.

This would be a massive mapping undertaking to be sure, but the potential for it to be a very memorable map is there. Sure there's the problem of lack of CAS, OB and the like, but this also means DS2 could use smaller arms fire to kill aliens swarming around the outside, or maybe just use it as an actual transport instead of ignoring the other LZ like we usually do.

[Snypehunter007]

A space station in this day and age in the lore is HUGE, like multi-level city sized stations that people live on for very long periods of time.

Have three levels of the map instead of two, or more! The station could have an atmosphere already, but breaches would become an issue for marines. Have armored space suits, but in limited supply.

Aliens in the lore can exist in a vacuum just fine, let them use the outside of the ship to flank marine expeditions. Hell you can just rip off Alien: Isolation alltogether, have the AI of the ship go haywire, locking things down. Let the marines use pre-existing installations for defense and offense.

This is the worst map idea I've ever heard. I would literally deactivate myself before making a map like this.

As a side note, all of the guesses currently? Wayyyy off the mark.

[Snypehunter007]

Sorry to make a double post here, but there is no way to make multi leveled map currently on CM with the way gameplay goes. No matter what happens, Xenos and Marines will camp ladders/elevators, major salt will be produced, and rounds will be long.

From a 5 story apartment of a urban building to a ship with three decks, there is always going to be a significant amount of camping and a lot of the effort that goes into mapping the map will go to waste because one side will only get to see it.

If y'all want to talk possibilities vs. impossibilities for mapping on CM, you can quote me with a question or something and I'll respond as best I can.

[TehSpoderman]

Sorry to make a double post here, but there is no way to make multi leveled map currently on CM with the way gameplay goes. No matter what happens, Xenos and Marines will camp ladders/elevators, major salt will be produced, and rounds will be long.

From a 5 story apartment of a urban building to a ship with three decks, there is always going to be a significant amount of camping and a lot of the effort that goes into mapping the map will go to waste because one side will only get to see it.

If y'all want to talk possibilities vs. impossibilities for mapping on CM, you can quote me with a question or something and I'll respond as best I can.

Will there ever be stairs that allow you to walk from one z level to another?

[lcass123]

Sorry to make a double post here, but there is no way to make multi leveled map currently on CM with the way gameplay goes. No matter what happens, Xenos and Marines will camp ladders/elevators, major salt will be produced, and rounds will be long.

From a 5 story apartment of a urban building to a ship with three decks, there is always going to be a significant amount of camping and a lot of the effort that goes into mapping the map will go to waste because one side will only get to see it.

If y'all want to talk possibilities vs. impossibilities for mapping on CM, you can quote me with a question or something and I'll respond as best I can.

Well I would disagree, the almayer and sulaco are decent examples of multi-z mapping done very well. Both of them used ladders and had two Z-levels, it worked because there were more ladders than the marines could actively defend most of the time and with looking down ladders being added it works quite well.

That being said ladders are shit for gameplay in general and stairs would be much much better heck the elevators solve quite a few problems apart from their weird atmos issues.

[Snypehunter007]

Will there ever be stairs that allow you to walk from one z level to another?

Probably not.

Well I would disagree, the almayer and sulaco are decent examples of multi-z mapping done very well. Both of them used ladders and had two Z-levels, it worked because there were more ladders than the marines could actively defend most of the time and with looking down ladders being added it works quite well.

That being said ladders are shit for gameplay in general and stairs would be much much better heck the elevators solve quite a few problems apart from their weird atmos issues.

Almayer and Sulaco aren't the major gameplay map though, by the time the Xenos reach the ship(s) they don't care about camping because it is basically game over for the marine at that point, at least usually, there are a few exceptions.

Ladders are shit, if we ever did stairs we would have the same problem, and elevators, on top of having weird atmos issues, are ALSO campable. You see this happen all the time. That is the main reason we won't be doing an multi z-level maps again unless we come up with some fool-proof work around.

[Blade2000Br]

Probably not.



Almayer and Sulaco aren't the major gameplay map though, by the time the Xenos reach the ship(s) they don't care about camping because it is basically game over for the marine at that point, at least usually, there are a few exceptions.

Ladders are shit, if we ever did stairs we would have the same problem, and elevators, on top of having weird atmos issues, are ALSO campable. You see this happen all the time. That is the main reason we won't be doing an multi z-level maps again unless we come up with some fool-proof work around.

Ayys can't camp stairs if they don't know what it is. If they build defenses around it, call dibs on metagaming.

Ayys should only go up if they saw muhrines going up and down. Kek. If they stay by the ladders and stay there waiting for da muhrines, call dibs on metagaming again. Simple fix.

Then create some kind of rule or mechanic that screws xenos over dat shit.

[Feweh]

Ayys can't camp stairs if they don't know what it is. If they build defenses around it, call dibs on metagaming.

[Snypehunter007]

Ayys can't camp stairs if they don't know what it is. If they build defenses around it, call dibs on metagaming.

Ayys should only go up if they saw muhrines going up and down. Kek. If they stay by the ladders and stay there waiting for da muhrines, call dibs on metagaming again. Simple fix.

Then create some kind of rule or mechanic that screws xenos over dat shit.

Not as simple as that.

Say, the xenos are say on floor 1 (Top floor) and marines start on floor 3 (bottom floor), logically (even for a life form like a xeno) you can ONLY go down. They have leeway to create anything they want on the maps because they have no reason to not do it. They are creating their hive now that they own it. Now there are exceptions to this like, no building around LZs to prevent cheesing the marines early into the round but they are allowed to do just about anything they want.

We would actually be metagaming more (in a sense) by telling xenos not to fortify their hive.

[Blade2000Br]

Not as simple as that.

Say, the xenos are say on floor 1 (Top floor) and marines start on floor 3 (bottom floor), logically (even for a life form like a xeno) you can ONLY go down. They have leeway to create anything they want on the maps because they have no reason to not do it. They are creating their hive now that they own it. Now there are exceptions to this like, no building around LZs to prevent cheesing the marines early into the round but they are allowed to do just about anything they want.

We would actually be metagaming more (in a sense) by telling xenos not to fortify their hive.

Well, then, I tried.

Afro Meme is a Meme.

[LordLoko]

The problem with a space map is that atmos was, if I remember correctly, basically scrapped in January. I may be wrong, but from what I've heard through staff and some players is that atmos has been stripped to the bear minimum, like goon-atmos. And uh, I wouldn't like breaches to be a normal part of the fighting experience. Engineers wouldn't be able to fix breaches unless they had magboots since they'd keep getting sucked out until there was no air. And imagine what some xenos would do if breaching was allowed. Melting walls in every department to clear the air even before the marines got there, scaling the outside wall in space and pulling marines in space. Facehugging and suffocating. Its a good idea on paper but taking in playerbase and how people act, it wouldn't play out well in my mind at least

Step 1:Make unbreachable walls and windows
Step 2:?????
Step 3:Profit!

[Casany]

Step 1:Make unbreachable walls and windows
Step 2:?????
Step 3:Profit!

They did that with Prison Map. I concede

[lcass123]

Not as simple as that.

Say, the xenos are say on floor 1 (Top floor) and marines start on floor 3 (bottom floor), logically (even for a life form like a xeno) you can ONLY go down. They have leeway to create anything they want on the maps because they have no reason to not do it. They are creating their hive now that they own it. Now there are exceptions to this like, no building around LZs to prevent cheesing the marines early into the round but they are allowed to do just about anything they want.

We would actually be metagaming more (in a sense) by telling xenos not to fortify their hive.

I guess a better way to handle this then would be to have multiple attack locations, for instance on the map I was designing both engineering and a large research area would be underground along with a large weapons area so having multiple points of entry with it being wayy too large for one single xeno force to defend every entrance with the same going for the marines.