Next maps atmosphere

[lcass123]

Currently, the maps are fun to play but have lost a lot of the atmosphere of the aliens franchise, its become more of a shooty dead alien game than when it was first created. Tight hallways raiding virology with basically no lighting and constant tension is just not there anymore. I would really be intrigued to get the next map be a lot like minijar's original work on Big Red. I'm interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

[Trench007]

I'm thinking we need a derelict spaceship or space station map, to get that Alien tension up and running. Otherwise, perhaps a moon colony where marines need spacesuits? Just something that involves more space and less of a jungle, icy, or rocky vibe.

[Steelpoint]

I would be interested in seeing a Colonial Marine issue Space Armor.

However I really think a new map should focus on gameplay over aesthetic first and foremost, LV-624 is a perfect example of a badly designed map simply due too many factors (map is way too open, marines lack good defensive options, hive placement is 100% predictable, xenos lack a good defensive position to deter early game marine rushes, etc, etc).

Despite criticisms I think Big Red is our most well designed map thus far, it holds a consistent 'frontline' and both xenos and humans have well established bases that are hard to crack and are always the last to fall.

A close quarters map like a derelict space ship seems like it would massively advantage the aliens as aliens are extremely well designed to overcome attrition and thrive in CQC circumstances, not to mention you would have to either remove the SADAR or justify why you can fire it on a derelict space ship but not a modern warship.

[MrJJJ]

Look, i know you want that horror and tension, but here is a thing, which has been answered a thousand times.

People on ss13 really, usually just...don't give a shit about their character at all, me being one of them, the first response to a enemy mob/player is typically "what's the best way to robust it?", sure we have folks that DO care about their characters and will RP, hell there was even horror stations, but they never really got higher than 20 people, even with advertising.

There was even a Alien Isolation server, which did got some decent pop there and then, but ultimately, there was no real horror when a freaking assistant with even a toolbox could stun a alien to infinity and beyond, and most people didin't really got scared, just wanted to organize themselves into a group and beat the aliens to death, no matter how much you buffed the aliens and nerfed humans.

Really i don't doubt its possible to create a good tension and atmosphere (or just tension alone, which DOES come sometimes in this server, when one of the sides isin't curb-stomping the other) but its going to be a very difficult cake to make.

[Trench007]

I would be interested in seeing a Colonial Marine issue Space Armor.

However I really think a new map should focus on gameplay over aesthetic first and foremost, LV-624 is a perfect example of a badly designed map simply due too many factors (map is way too open, marines lack good defensive options, hive placement is 100% predictable, xenos lack a good defensive position to deter early game marine rushes, etc, etc).

Despite criticisms I think Big Red is our most well designed map thus far, it holds a consistent 'frontline' and both xenos and humans have well established bases that are hard to crack and are always the last to fall.

A close quarters map like a derelict space ship seems like it would massively advantage the aliens as aliens are extremely well designed to overcome attrition and thrive in CQC circumstances, not to mention you would have to either remove the SADAR or justify why you can fire it on a derelict space ship but not a modern warship.

I wouldn't care if it was heavily unbalanced, as long it is fun. That has always been my thinking with balance, if it feels like a downhill battle that you can still overcome, I'm game for it.

[Steelpoint]

If the map was well designed in a way that even if defeat is inevitable then it would be fine, there are plenty of games that exist where the only outcome is defeat of the player or players.

But that seems more reserved for a reworked on Whisky Outpost.

[Trench007]

Look, i know you want that horror and tension, but here is a thing, which has been answered a thousand times.

People on ss13 really, usually just...don't give a shit about their character at all, me being one of them, the first response to a enemy mob/player is typically "what's the best way to robust it?", sure we have folks that DO care about their characters and will RP, hell there was even horror stations, but they never really got higher than 20 people, even with advertising.

There was even a Alien Isolation server, which did got some decent pop there and then, but ultimately, there was no real horror when a freaking assistant with even a toolbox could stun a alien to infinity and beyond, and most people didin't really got scared, just wanted to organize themselves into a group and beat the aliens to death, no matter how much you buffed the aliens and nerfed humans.

Really i don't doubt its possible to create a good tension and atmosphere (or just tension alone, which DOES come sometimes in this server, when one of the sides isin't curb-stomping the other) but its going to be a very difficult cake to make.

I'm not saying we should make a spooky generic linear derelict spaceship, I'm saying it would be nice to have at least one space focused map in the rotation.

[Trench007]

If the map was well designed in a way that even if defeat is inevitable then it would be fine, there are plenty of games that exist where the only outcome is defeat of the player or players.

But that seems more reserved for a reworked on Whisky Outpost.

Not necessarily, if we slightly buffed the access of higher grade weapons for that specific map, it would still be a challenge but less handicapped. Generally, the marines could be given a higher tier of gear (i.e. better armor).

[StephenNelson]

I would like to see an urban map. So far we have barren colonies, so why not an urban city that was overrun by xenos? Buildings, roadways, and the like. The second z-level could be the second stories of the buildings and the skywalks that connect them.

[Steelpoint]

Only issue with a more urban setting is that it would be a very major event in the lore, since the current locations are all isolated research colony's that are very out of the way, a major urban centre is not going to be covered up as easily.

[Trench007]

I would like to see an urban map. So far we have barren colonies, so why not an urban city that was overrun by xenos? Buildings, roadways, and the like. The second z-level could be the second stories of the buildings and the skywalks that connect them.

An ancient ruin site of an old city on some forgotten planet could also work, it would still have the urban setting, but with extra personality.

[Steelpoint]

Maybe a city map could take place in a abandoned human colony, argue that the colony was abandoned after a CLF dirty bomb forced the civilian population to evacuate, since then WY took up residence in a secret laboratory, or a rogue Alien cluster crashed on the planet and are using some stragglers who chose not to evac as hosts.

[Trench007]

Maybe a city map could take place in a abandoned human colony, argue that the colony was abandoned after a CLF dirty bomb forced the civilian population to evacuate, since then WY took up residence in a secret laboratory, or a rogue Alien cluster crashed on the planet and are using some stragglers who chose not to evac as hosts.

That just gave me the idea of having a 'Pompeii' style city, where a nearby volcano erupted and awoke more than just the magma far below...

[CrimsonAerospace]

Now I like the sounds of an Urban map, but the earlier mention of a space map sadly wouldn't work, not really. CM's adapted too much to open maps. CAS, OB's, demolitions...Unless that ship/station happens to built out of mythril it wouldn't work too well.

However, an Urban map abandoned because of the CLF? I could get behind it.

[lcass123]

Ok so I was thinking about this and I think I have come up with a solution to the above listed problems.

Firstly the issue with alien isolation was that aliens COULD be stunned and that the tactic to kill them was to stun and then beat to death? It was fucking stupid and not fun however the station worked well and had a good atmosphere, having catwalks where you can view what was going on with the lower decks really added to the atmosphere.

Secondly, SADAR would need changing and I think the most that could be changed here is to reduce the amount of HE they get for the map and swap it out for AP and Phos. Of course AP would need a change so that it did heavy brute damage to the target and then did light explosive damage to the surrounding tiles.

Thirdly, The idea of a Nostromo or spaced theme map would be absolutely amazing and we really do need to embrace that space would be part of this. A solution to this might be that the nostromo remains unbreached initially and that it is only breached slowly by explosions and such, external hulls would need to be made unacidable but destroyable by explosions otherwise at round start they would all be melted. We could also add in marine space suits or atleast improve the space protection on the gear similarly as to how ice colony works. In order to handle inevitable breaches the addition of inflateable walls as standard gear to engineers would help to resolve this.

The main issue I can see with a space type situation is well its cramped, it would be like fighting in the caves ALL THE TIME however we can balance this with a few smart choices:

1: Add in lots of flanking routes, this gives advantages to both marines and aliens and it encourages proper tactics instead of the charge bullshit we get on LV.

2: Make the station/ship be made of multiple pod like sections connected by hallways, this would give marines an advantage in attacking the aliens by giving them long LOS paths but also play to ranged aliens. The use of pod like rooms increases the effectiveness of things like grenades to help further balance the marines.

3: Maint being carefully designed, by doing this we allow for lots of unique hive locations and it can really be designed to be pretty intense in terms of combat, I would say maint should be focused towards shotguns and direct combat rather than what goes on currently.

4: A full ship would have proper facilities wouldn't it? Adding in a working medbay and heck maybe even adding MOTHER to help out would be interesting enough and may help in the balancing aspect.

5: CAS would be very strange to have, the missiles would need changing so using location spawners might be a smart move here. Adding purely incendiary missiles would reduce the damage along with adding purely destructive missile for destroying entire sections may also be useful.

The point I'm trying to make here is that if done correctly marine balance is not an issue at all however a lot of these would need to be carefully designed so that they cannot be exploited. I may design a little mock-up map later today as this concept is really interesting.

[misto]

mushroom forest planet :3

with mineshaft tunnels and abandoned drill-equipped powerloaders underneath <:

[Trench007]

mushroom forest planet :3

with mineshaft tunnels and abandoned drill-equipped powerloaders underneath <:

Get out of here Hippie and take your damn tofu with you.

[lcass123]

you mean go back to minecraft.

[Trench007]

What is a minecraft? Uh we should stop, this is turning into an acid goop.

[misto]

how about a facility, no matter the environmental theme, but speaking mechanically here, which is centrally located on the map and surrounded on all sides by fogwall (or whatever it is you want to use in the setting, sandstorm, blizzard, fungal spore storm, whatever) leaving the edges of the map to be infested by the aliens

this has 2 good merits in my mind

1. being centrally located, the facility should seem more compact and defensible than most

2. to make up for the marines' new luxury of a more compact and seemingly more defensible location at the center of the map, the aliens of course have the luxury of choosing whichever side to nest in or mount their attacks from

and of course, since the aliens have the whole edge of the map to choose from to nest in, it will be harder for marines to "metarush" out, perhaps you could even do away with the fogwall given this fact

i would also like to push that there be at least some underground tunnel action because i consider that to be an interesting good feature of your games' maps

[lcass123]

So WO?

[misto]

no? wo is a north-south corridor, nothing like what i just said?

im trying to suggest an map wherein scouting will serve a real gameplay purpose instead of "just go north past tablefort to find alien nest"

[lcass123]

well yer we are discussing a new space based map instead of an LV shaped map which always plays out the same. The space based map adds a bunch of new dynamics for marines and aliens to deal with and makes strategy more integral.

[misto]

thats funny, i thought that people were poo pooing a space station map because any cas or ob would be nonsensical or explosives would risk fucking everyone up and the admins seem vehemently opposed to the vacuum of space actually playing a role ingame to the point of making the outer hull nearly invincible and spawning walls to plug holes the ds accidentally makes

if you can get a space station map okayed, i suggest it be some kind of asteroid mining complex. then there can sort of be an "outside" to the map, walking around out on asteroids that are bound together with catwalks, and the cas and obs might be able to be used out there, a little bit

[CrimsonAerospace]

The main issue I can see with a space type situation is well its cramped, it would be like fighting in the caves ALL THE TIME however we can balance this with a few smart choices:

1: Add in lots of flanking routes, this gives advantages to both marines and aliens and it encourages proper tactics instead of the charge bullshit we get on LV.

2: Make the station/ship be made of multiple pod like sections connected by hallways, this would give marines an advantage in attacking the aliens by giving them long LOS paths but also play to ranged aliens. The use of pod like rooms increases the effectiveness of things like grenades to help further balance the marines.

3: Maint being carefully designed, by doing this we allow for lots of unique hive locations and it can really be designed to be pretty intense in terms of combat, I would say maint should be focused towards shotguns and direct combat rather than what goes on currently.

4: A full ship would have proper facilities wouldn't it? Adding in a working medbay and heck maybe even adding MOTHER to help out would be interesting enough and may help in the balancing aspect.

5: CAS would be very strange to have, the missiles would need changing so using location spawners might be a smart move here. Adding purely incendiary missiles would reduce the damage along with adding purely destructive missile for destroying entire sections may also be useful.

The point I'm trying to make here is that if done correctly marine balance is not an issue at all however a lot of these would need to be carefully designed so that they cannot be exploited. I may design a little mock-up map later today as this concept is really interesting.

Being cramped wouldn't be an issue. As it stands, fighting aliens on the Almayer is actually not too difficult, and it's relatively cramped. Ontop of that, the Nostromo, while cramped, served it's purpose fine, and even while being cramped was fun to get into engagements on.

Of course, our version would need to be bigger to account for CM's larger population count, but no, I don't really see size being the issue, just how CAS and OB's would work. Because honestly, I hate to say it, they should't really work. You'd breach the station with bullets/missiles if you fired them realistically.