Marine Law Clarification Thread

[Tidomann]

Would you not argue that the CMP is allowed to participate regardless of what the other MPs, seeing how he is actually an MP himself and above them in the command chain

And what I meant with the other question is, if allowed by the MPs, can say, a Staff Officer be part of the firing squad? Can a Private? Or is it just the Commander? And does this need permission from the CMP explicitly?

I would limit the firing squad to consist of MPs only. CMP and Commander presence is limited to being present at the execution they authorized.

Participation by either the Commander or CMP would have to be agreed upon by the police staff beforehand.

These are the only two who should generally be an exception to the law. Any others should get confirmation from high command.

[Skimmy2]

Apologies if you would have rather I posted this question in the stickied Rule Clarification Thread, but I figured due to the nature of Marine Law, this was more appropriate.

The wiki states that "UCMJ also applies to all personnel who are in the vicinity of a USCM Operation or on board a ship." Does this also apply to hostile/other nations like the UPP?

In other words, does a UPP Prisoner have the same rights by law as a Marine Prisoner?

[DriedMilk]

Apologies if you would have rather I posted this question in the stickied Rule Clarification Thread, but I figured due to the nature of Marine Law, this was more appropriate.

The wiki states that "UCMJ also applies to all personnel who are in the vicinity of a USCM Operation or on board a ship." Does this also apply to hostile/other nations like the UPP?

In other words, does a UPP Prisoner have the same rights by law as a Marine Prisoner?

They do apply to hostile factions but, their rights are not necessary to be heavily reinforced. As I have managed to chop UPP legs off as MP as I was questioning them.

[Anoonki]

Regarding the fact that you can't just put the commander in the brig of your own volition (For any charge that includes relief of command), what is an MP to do in the event of a Commander trying and failing to BE them?

[Bronimin]

Do the CAS rockets count as unsecured equipment if they are left in the hangar

Do SL flamers count as unsecured equipment if left in the prep rooms

[Dragoon47]

These edits also mean that keloderm, and other mixed pills, aren't legal for squad medics anymore, correct?

[Mann handle]

These edits also mean that keloderm, and other mixed pills, aren't legal for squad medics anymore, correct?

"Combination medications (more than one medication in a pill or bottle) may never be distributed to anyone below a Doctor."

That's from the wiki on marines law. So yes it's illegal, as Keloderm is a combination of Kelotane and Dermaline which can only be vended to doctors now. Same with all the popular mixtures as well.

Do the CAS rockets count as unsecured equipment if they are left in the hangar

Do SL flamers count as unsecured equipment if left in the prep rooms

Well the first round these laws came out, an SL was brigged for leaving out flamers so yes as it currently stands. Also the same MP who did that was also in LOOC saying that technically they could brig all of the SLs that round due to that practice. MP also added that medical could also be brigged due to how medical's supplies were not secured and technically the MP was correct on that front.

[4thsurviver]

While I like the idea of stopping guns from littering the whole ship I find it hard to agree with the flamer verdict. As long the flamer is behind the locked doors of the squad prep room I'd consider them secured for department use. I'd say the that squad is the SL's department and therefore the whole prep room and not just their tiny room is also their department. The only way people from outside the department would be getting their hands on the flamers are through trespassing and theft and at that point would already have access to weapon racks.


Do splints fall under Practicing Medicine without a License? They are not listed under the acceptable first aid treatments but I don't think splints would count as medications either.

[Kain Powers]

I have always wondered how colonist fit into the marine law and this is the perfect thread for it.
As a colonist I have been arrested for Disrespect to a superior (everybody is a superior if you have no rank), Drinking on Duty (this one just baffled me), theft (for picking headbands and other cosmetics from the floor) & Trespassing (the CMO liked me and said I could clean and hang around medbay, but I didn't had access on my card, so I went to brig anyway).
Both as an MP and a colonist, the main enemy of marine law is boredom. The colonist is most often bored out of his mind and starts disrupting operations and acting like a shitter and the same goes for the MPs.
During some rounds they have nothing to do for hours and just start harassing the right-less civilian, finding every loophole and mental jump to put max time on there victim while staying within the bounds of the law.
So what rights do I have as a colonist? Knowing that I have the odds against, a bad reputation and an army of bored MPs.

[Skimmy2]

I have always wondered how colonist fit into the marine law and this is the perfect thread for it.
As a colonist I have been arrested for Disrespect to a superior (everybody is a superior if you have no rank), Drinking on Duty (this one just baffled me), theft (for picking headbands and other cosmetics from the floor) & Trespassing (the CMO liked me and said I could clean and hang around medbay, but I didn't had access on my card, so I went to brig anyway).
Both as an MP and a colonist, the main enemy of marine law is boredom. The colonist is most often bored out of his mind and starts disrupting operations and acting like a shitter and the same goes for the MPs.
During some rounds they have nothing to do for hours and just start harassing the right-less civilian, finding every loophole and mental jump to put max time on there victim while staying within the bounds of the law.
So what rights do I have as a colonist? Knowing that I have the odds against, a bad reputation and an army of bored MPs.

During the Operation, Marine Law applies to all personnel in the vicinity of said operation, so your rights as a colonist would be the same as any marine. Most of what you said can also be solved by requesting Appeals, the CMP/Commander is required to review any evidence over whether you are guilty or not during an appeal.

[Tharinoma]

Colonists ae subject to marine law, " UCMJ also applies to all personnel who are in the vicinity of a USCM Operation or on board a ship."
Disrepect on a colonist is really a dick move unless it's really public and getting in the way of the operation (aka colonist is being a dick)
Theft is 100% fine
Tresspassing shouldn't be charged if you have authorisation from the department head to be there (and you aren't being a dick)
Drinking on duty doesn't appliy to colonists, but Drunk and Disorderly does (unless, again, you're being a dick)

"What you can do" as colonist (and any other job) is follow marine law and roleplay everything as much as you can. Much harder to arrest you if you went through the trouble of getting written consent for whatever you're doing, for example. And then yeah, appealing.


If a Commander is breaking the law, see "incompetent command" section of marine law :
As Military Police you are expected to enforce the Law and Procedures upon all members of the crew. If the Commander, XO, or any command staff are in violation of UCMJ at any time, the Chief MP is authorized to remove them from command permanently and replace them with whoever is next in the Chain of Command. However, this requires confirmation from Central Command before it is enacted (you can use the fax machine in the Chief MPs office). If they are not going to be removed from command permanently, they can instead be placed into the brig to server their sentence and the next in command takes temporary command. Central Command does not need to approve these cases and only needs to be alerted. However, visiting executives and Admirals are NOT bound by this and can only be removed with Central Command approval.

If the commander tries to BE you for doing so, it becomes an IC issue and you can roleplay it however you see fit, within the boundaries of the rules. Killing the commander isn't ok, you have a tazer for self defence. You'll want to ahelp the issue too, scenarios where the commander should be both breaking the law and trying (and failing) to BE an MP are very uncommon.

It's my opinion that CAS ammo is allowed on the hangar floor as long as they don't get in the way. It's not really equipment that someone can steal. Unless a senior+ gives a ruling over it, IC issue.

Unsecured Flamers in prep count as unsecured equipment.

Mixed pills like keloderm are no longer legal for anyone besides doctors/researchers/CMO.

Splints do fall under Practicing Medicine without a License

[crono23]

If the Commander, Acting Commander, or a Staff Officer requests a marine to be arrested for a crime, you MUST arrest said marine. You may hold the marine for a maximum of 10 minutes while evidence is gathered. If the marine is proven innocent in the end, the requesting officer may be held liable for a False Arrest charge.

So according to this, if an MP decides to carry out an arrest without question, and the arrest turns out false, the MP can be charged with a false arrest. However, if the MP deems the arrest to be sketchy for whatever reason or just doesn't want to, does that mean the MP can be charged with insubordination (or worse, BE'd)?

I am under the impression that if the marine in question is innocent, the MP could be charged and arrested with something, regardless of what he does. Am I correct? And if I am, is this intended? Can it be avoided?

[Hastati]

So according to this, if an MP decides to carry out an arrest without question, and the arrest turns out false, the MP can be charged with a false arrest. However, if the MP deems the arrest to be sketchy for whatever reason or just doesn't want to, does that mean the MP can be charged with insubordination (or worse, BE'd)?

I am under the impression that if the marine in question is innocent, the MP could be charged and arrested with something, regardless of what he does. Am I correct? And if I am, is this intended? Can it be avoided?

If the Commander, Acting Commander, or a Staff Officer requests a marine to be arrested for a crime, you MUST arrest said marine. You may hold the marine for a maximum of 10 minutes while evidence is gathered. If the marine is proven innocent in the end, the requesting officer may be held liable for a False Arrest charge.

To me this reads that the one who ordered the arrest would fall afoul of false arrest charges, not the one ultimately carrying it out.. The use of 'officer' here refers to rank, not occupation.

[Skimmy2]

Minor clarification for something that may cause confusion.
For Command Requested Arrests it states "If the Commander, Acting Commander, or a Staff Officer requests a marine to be arrested for a crime, you MUST arrest said marine."
The Executive Officer is not mentioned, is this intentional or a mistake?

[Lumi Pharon]

Apop said individual items each accrue sentences for contraband etc...

An advanced medkit has 4 stacks of advacned burn/brute, with 10 items per stack, plus 5 splints.
45 counts of contraband (450minute min sentence), and/or 45 counts of medication distribution? (675minute min sentence).

Also standard issue first aid pouches are illegal due to the painkillers, thus an MP could just watch cams round start and brig every person that takes a firstaid pouch, if they were so inclined.


What is the definition of lethal and non lethal force? This is important because different parts of marine law use these terms. Previous posts have talked about lethal force being shooting people with a gun/knife etc, but does that mean you can safely say punching someone/hitting someone in the chest physicaly with a gun etc is 'non lethal'?
Because if it's not lethal force it's assault not assault with a deadly weapon which seems obvious, but conversely doesn't that means that MP's could also use such force on non compliant arrests, (ie: beat the shit out of someone until they get on the ground) as it specifically says 'a non-lethal method of neutralization'.

[Tharinoma]

Use common sense, people. The answer to the last few questions is completely obvious if you think about if for more than two seconds.

I'm pretty sure the XO not being mentionned is a mistake. It doesn't matter, the XO can just order an SO to order the arrest anyway.
Trauma kits/stuff count for one, regardless of stacks.
"Assault with a deadly weapon : To enact physical force against someone with a lethal weapon, such as a sidearm, blade, or rifle. " Punching isn't considered a lethal weapon, bashing with a gun can be depending on context. It's an IC issue, once again use common sense. MPs are human beings with a working brain, they're supposed to use it.

[Lumi Pharon]

Yes but my point is from my understanding of marine law an MP would be fully within his rights to beat someone to a pulp till they lie (or fall) down - there is no actual reason why they would need to use a flash etc.

And are indeed firstaid pouches illegal?

[Tharinoma]

Beating someone to a pulp is lethal. They can die.
Firstaid Pouches are legal, the second type of injectors was just added after the marine law rewrite iirc.

[Anoonki]

Yes but my point is from my understanding of marine law an MP would be fully within his rights to beat someone to a pulp till they lie (or fall) down - there is no actual reason why they would need to use a flash etc.

And are indeed firstaid pouches illegal?

Literally every tool at an MP's disposal directly involves stunning, or restraining, except for their blue alert+ things. Pepperspray stuns dudes. Taser stuns dudes. Stunbaton (shockingly) stuns dudes.

Like what you said, there is no actual reason why they would need to use (harmful) force.

(Also you'll absolutely get in trouble for harmbatonning people into submission.)

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

In the part that says "Military Officers and military law enforcement agents are expected to use their best discretion when applying sentences and apprehending those who violate the above laws. Failure to do so will result in immediate contract termination at the discretion of Central Command military officials."

Does this mean that Mps can pick and choose who they should arrest or otherwise warn? Or does it mean 'arrest or get jobbanned for being lazy'.

[Urytion]

"You are a doctor!

You are a civilian, and are not subject to follow military chain of command, but you do work for the USCM.
You are tasked with keeping the marines healthy and strong, usually in the form of surgery.
You are also an expert when it comes to medication and treatment. If you do not know what you are doing, adminhelp so a mentor can assist you.
"

How do we not "follow [the] military chain of command"? If the CO orders me to do something, do I have to do it? XO? SO? I've had people tell me that civilians are on the bottom of the ladder and therefore have to obey ALL orders given to them by any military personnel. That's obviously bullshit because any PFC telling a doctor what to do will very quickly find themselves anesthetized in the hallway, but the fact someone said that unironically makes me suddenly concerned.

Additionally, as civilians, how much does Marine Law apply? Can we be held for insulting a superior, seeing as our only superior (technically) is the CMO? Can the CMO order our arrest? I've been told by MPs while I was CMO that I can't order shit, and that they should arrest me for subverting the chain of command... which I am not subject to. Same with insubordination. Here are the laws I want clarification on:

*Insulting a superior, as technically our only superior is the CMO, and their superior is the aCO.
*Insubordination. Is it arrestable? We're civilians. If we're insubordinate, we get fired, not arrested.
*Unsecured equipment. Applies to surgery tools?
*Neglect of duty. Same reasoning as insubordination.
*Conduct unbecoming of a (Chief Medical) Officer.

This is partially so I know what is and is not appropriate as a doctor, but also because I've been playing CMO more often and we get some really stupid doctors who are doing insubordinate and neglectful shit. Do I have them arrested, or fired? Can I order the MPs to do it?

Finally, the CMO has full (near full?) authority on medical matters on board the ship? Can the aCO overrule them? I have had a (admittedly very shit) XOaCO try to force me to do head reattachment and defib. Then threatened to have me arrested when I didn't comply. As a personal preference, I'd prefer it can only be a Commander that can overrule the CMO, just an aCO, but I don't know if there's a ruling anywhere about it.

[Anoonki]

*Insulting a superior, as technically our only superior is the CMO, and their superior is the aCO.
*Insubordination. Is it arrestable? We're civilians. If we're insubordinate, we get fired, not arrested.
*Unsecured equipment. Applies to surgery tools?
*Neglect of duty. Same reasoning as insubordination.
*Conduct unbecoming of a (Chief Medical) Officer.

I'm pretty sure "Insulting a superior" won't apply to medical personnel at all.
Insubordination probably isn't, but if somebody's telling you to do your job and you don't, you might get put in the brig for neglect.
Unsecured equipment probably does apply to surgery tools, just keep them in the theater, and in the tray, and you should be set.
Neglect of duty *does* apply, as you're contractually obligated to do your job, same as the marines, just under a different contract.
The CMO's not a commissioned officer, or a military officer at all, it probably doesn't apply.

Of course, this is just my understanding of it.

[Tharinoma]

Does this mean that Mps can pick and choose who they should arrest or otherwise warn? Or does it mean 'arrest or get jobbanned for being lazy'.

"Under no circumstances may anyone be given a Pardon if there is evidence to show a crime was committed. " - that's from the appeals section. Considering how MPs are bound by the rules to follow marine law, you shouldn't be ignoring crimes ever, and letting people off with a warning should be a very rare occurence, supported by special circumstances (like someone breaking in a place being justified by strong necessity and no one available to open the door at all).
You're supposed to "use [your] best discretion". Don't be a dick, use common sense, roleplay and there should be no problem.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

"Under no circumstances may anyone be given a Pardon if there is evidence to show a crime was committed. " - that's from the appeals section. Considering how MPs are bound by the rules to follow marine law, you shouldn't be ignoring crimes ever, and letting people off with a warning should be a very rare occurence, supported by special circumstances (like someone breaking in a place being justified by strong necessity and no one available to open the door at all).
You're supposed to "use [your] best discretion". Don't be a dick, use common sense, roleplay and there should be no problem.

So in the case of minor violations like, for instance, someone having their gun out in briefing or a doctor leaving used injectors on the floor, I can't leave it with a warning unless they are extremely busy/needed?

[Tharinoma]

Minimum punishment for Minor Weapon Violation is a warning, so no problem there.
Leaving a used injector on the floor... Just yell at them they forgot something. If they ignore you, they're being a dick so they deserve to be brigged. You can also consider the crime as damage to gov property or something, it's just an used injector.