Do you like the way the Xeno damage system works currently?

[Wubs4Scrubs]

As I'm sure many already know, the way the current Xeno damage system works is that they can take literally infinite amounts of damage before death so long as they find weeds to regen life on (and all the damage isn't taken at once). Since the Xeno's medical system is completely passive, they are able to make incredibly dangerous and risky plays while not being punished for it assuming they escape before death since they have no lasting medical injuries and regen health so quickly.

This system is technically the same for the marines at least from what I know. If a marine was in a controlled environment where they had a full medical team treating them as they got shot once then healed, they could take an infinite amount of damage as well so long as the medical staff didn't run out of supplies. Realistically this wouldn't happen to a marine however and generally they either die or fall back before they take more than 3 or 4 bullets whereas later tier Xenos can take upwards of 10 shots in quick succession and simply regen all their lost HP in under 30 seconds.

My questions for discussion are:

• Do people like the Xeno damage system the way it is now?
  
  Are there alternatives or changes you'd make?

[xywenx00]

So you mean permanent/temporary impairment? Like a marine having to wait for 6 months after they got shot with a smg? Maybe give the xeno bleeding meaning the more bullets they eat the faster they bleed. The bleeding stops after some time but if it's too fast and they crit on weeds they die unless warding or regen.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

So you mean permanent/temporary impairment? Like a marine having to wait for 6 months after they got shot with a smg? Maybe give the xeno bleeding meaning the more bullets they eat the faster they bleed. The bleeding stops after some time but if it's too fast and they crit on weeds they die unless warding or regen.

If I were to make a change it would be something similar to that, where any entity human or alien would have a damage limit before they simply wouldn't be combat effective. So for example if a marine got shot a ton of times in the chest even if they were healed they'd permanently move slower for the round, or if an aliens got shot 20 times its max health or armor would diminish permanently. These are just random numbers and I'm sure the devs could give much better examples.

[Kernir]

I think that xenos are generally fragile enough that the damage model works, for the more tanky xenos (Crushers) The down time for being low on life can be quite a while.

I'm of the opinion that if it was changed to be slower / harder for Xenos to regen then it'd just push for more spitters / boilers. The only thing I'd want to see changed is regeneration off weeds at a reduced rate, runners / hunters get popped by one burst and have to run back to weeds to heal.

If anything I'd say that the damage model is reliant on the marine specials getting their hits in, one flamethrower hit on a crusher with a shotgun to follow up will almost assuredly kill it.

[Bronimin]

I don't like it but I'd sooner see injured xeno sprites for when they take damage so that marines know who to focus on. Also speed losses for damage (the second to last damage stage is 'limping badly ffs) but that has been argued to death already.

[shyshadow]

Maybe they should make it so that Xenos bleed? So you know, you can track them...just a thought.

[Heckenshutze]

Make xenos cripple like in the movies.

[Steelpoint]

At the very least having Xenos bleed when they have taken heavy damage would be an interesting addition.

[Renomaki]

What about a system where weeds heal less, but pheromones can heal more effectively?

Then drones could equate to marine combat medics, bringing all new value to them both behind and on the frontlines. That's just my idea, though.

[Steven Sneider]

Resin splints when?

[MrJJJ]

On marine hand: Its super annoying as shit when you just have one more shot to always finish the xeno off and he runs off, comes back in 2 minutes ready to take more while your treatment can last anywhere from 5 minutes to a hour depending on the pop and competency.

On the other xeno hand though...I don't know about you guys, but unless you are a crusher, queen or are covered by warding you are fragile as glass, which means you need to retreat ALOT and hope everyone constantly pheromones you, especially if you are a spitting cast because one shot = no plasma regen.

[xywenx00]

Maybe they should make it so that Xenos bleed? So you know, you can track them...just a thought.

Thats what I wrote...

[Mook476]

What about a system where weeds heal less, but pheromones can heal more effectively?

Then drones could equate to marine combat medics, bringing all new value to them both behind and on the frontlines. That's just my idea, though.

This sounds interesting, and I think this would be a unique idea to add to the field.

[Jackie Estegado]

Two competent medics per 20 marines can easily keep the marines constantly fighting, resulting in them having a much higher combat activity rate than aliens.

[Jackie Estegado]

What about a system where weeds heal less, but pheromones can heal more effectively?

Then drones could equate to marine combat medics, bringing all new value to them both behind and on the frontlines. That's just my idea, though.

That would require drones that actually know how to manage their pheromones.

[Mook476]

Two competent medics per 20 marines can easily keep the marines constantly fighting, resulting in them having a much higher combat activity rate than aliens.

This as well. Xenomorphs are a lot weaker than you might think they don't take too many shots to put into crit, or to fully wipe out as long as you fire enough DAKKA, and have your specs/smart gunners do their job.

[Zilenan91]

I feel like it's fine as it is now. Both sides have different gameplay at even the most basic levels and that makes it more interesting. Making xenos have individual limb damage or take organ damage and those sorts of things would defeat the entire point and require a massive rework. Currently they're balanced around being able to go in and out, regenning whenever hurt, and anyone in the game will win against a xeno who is only using harm intent to kill things. They're terrible at sustained fighting.

The only problem I see on the xeno side is that you have constant downtime without someone running recovery pheromones to heal damage and if someone is running it it can be blindingly fast to regenerate your health to the point that if someone isn't running recovery it's hard to do much as an Alien at all, so there might be a bit too much emphasis on having it.

[lcass123]

The damage model works, the only real improvement would be slowing Xenos down when injured. Maybe even go as far as to remove xeno crit and instead allow them to limp away and not be able to engage in combat at all during this time.


The issue is clear on the switch lowpop to high pop, in low pop there are much fewer high caste xenos so pheromones are hard to come by and or don't stack so the main attacking Xenia are at a disadvantage. In high pop there is almost always high weeding on the map along with a much larger amount of pheromone emitting castes which stack. I think this and the higher robustness of low pop marines ( seriously they are noticeably better ) is what's causing this issue rather than actual direct damage and bleed mechanics.

[BadApple]

Personally xeno's feel really tanky to me, being faster than a marine, taking more shots to crit, and being able to heal much much faster. A human taking three bullets takes about as long to splint and heal as a xeno does to regenerate, but ages to get properly treated.

I feel xeno's can regularly expose themselves to damage with very little consequence.

I think a cool way to change xeno's is make it so they can lose limbs if that limb takes too much damage, making them slower if they lose leg(s) (but always able to crawl) and stuff. The limb should regrow over time slower than healing health but still faster than it takes a marine to heal.

Also if a xeno loses their head, they should be able to still run around and hit people for a little while.


This would be cool, give Marines reason to aim places, and make it more dangerous for xeno's to take large amounts of damage.

[JackStorm]

This would be cool, give Marines reason to aim places

Oh God no

[Solarmare]

The damage system is fair as is with how xeno combat works in general I think. The trouble is you just see them walking away after having dealt however much damage without knowing if you've done much or whether it's suffered for it aggression, so it can end up feeling frustrating because you don't really feel like you're actually hurting them. The injured sprites idea mentioned would be neat I think, whenever they roar and get hurt their sprite also shows more wear and such which helps you feel like you're actually hurting them and forcing them back rather than them just walking away from it painlessly.

It ends up being a sort of satisfaction issue where you are hurting them, but don't really feel like you're doing much. The injured sprites could help with target focusing on the hurt xenos and make it feel a bit better on the marines side of the conflict in general.

I would be in favor of slowdown if a xeno took enough damage, but I think that's a very unlikely change so just adding injured sprites to xeno would be a pretty good change in my opinion.

[Symbiosis]

I play both sides pretty evenly.

Marines are nearly as tough as a Mature Hunter. They can take more damage than a Young Rav. When you say a Xeno can take 10 quick bullets, you're essentially talking about warded Xenos or Crushers. Even then, a flamethrower and Marines charging a Crusher will end him. Sure one of them (or two) may die, but they're denying the enemy (the Xeno) a valuable asset.

Xenos underestimate their tankiness early on or overextend. It happens every game. A boiler gets caught out. A Ravager tries to stay in too long and dies from a hail of gunfire. A Queen gets caught out of position when she goes into screech and gets UGL'ed, B18'ed, SADAR'ed, or even just gunned down. Then they're done. Out of the round until they start as a new larva. With a Ravager it's not the end of the round, but losing a Queen to a bad move can be a huge impact.

A Marine dies? There is a chance they can come back again.

I wouldn't mind seeing Xeno blood splatters be more common and having the resulting floor or walls be damaged, but not barricades. I like the damage system, for the most part.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Pretty much agree with everything Symbiosis just said, Xenos are a lot squishier than you realize, and when a Xenos is out of plasma, low HP, and on the run? It's defenseless until it's healed and able to regen pretty much, gotta push more.

Thouuuuugh I 100% want to be able to blow Xeno limbs off. Just because it'd be fucking awesome. No idea how that would work, and the balancing required, but god damn it'd be cool.

[Renomaki]

That is xeno's biggest advantage though, and the marines biggest weakness.

Xenos can only take so much punishment, sure, so extended melee fights are not viable. But they never have to worry about becoming crippled. Marines (and predators), on the other hand, have to constantly worry about xenos that aim for arms and legs, or if they are feeling scummy, hands and feet.

The moment a marine loses his arm, his combat capabilities are fucked pretty hard even with 1-handed weapons (due to the fact that you can't reload them with one hand), and if you lose a leg, you won't be able to keep up with the other marines in a push, and are the first one to die in a retreat due to your lack of speed.

If xenos could lose arms and legs, it would be crippling as FUK, because xenos are based ENTIRELY on agility and melee. Take away their ability to close gaps and slice&dice, and they become as helpless as a larva.

It is a big part as to why being a marine is so hard, because we can be so easy to rip apart sometimes it isn't even funny.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Well I think Xenos losing limbs would definitely require a rework of a lot of things, and they would need to be able to regrow them somehow, but I just think it would be pretty cool to blow off a Xenos arm.