Lethal force clarification.

[lcass123]

I'm a bit confused as to how lethal force is deemed reasonable as I have read different things in different reports.

If a player aims a wielded weapon at you is it reasonable to assume they have a lethal intent and hence it would be reasonable to respond with lethal force?

If a player intentionally fires a round or two at you but they do not badly injure you is it reasonable to respond with lethal force? Considering the above situation of course where no rounds have yet been fired.

If a player is firing whole magazines of low calibre rounds at you but you are not badly injured by them eg firing a m4a3 pistol at a fully armoured marine.

And at what point does a fist fight evolve into a gun fight, for instance if I was trying to run away from the fight but the other person was still punching me would it be reasonable to threaten/use a weapon against them?

[TehSpoderman]

A fist fight usually evolves into a gun fight if the two parties give consent.

[lcass123]

A fist fight usually evolves into a gun fight if the two parties give consent.

What i'm meaning here is fully ICly, eg one guy pulls a knife and that goes on for a bit and at what point does it become acceptable to pull a gun. It's all well and good if its planned and you can ask in LOOC if the dude consents but these situations don't really arise that much naturally.

[TehSpoderman]

What i'm meaning here is fully ICly, eg one guy pulls a knife and that goes on for a bit and at what point does it become acceptable to pull a gun. It's all well and good if its planned and you can ask in LOOC if the dude consents but these situations don't really arise that much naturally.

I dont know if thats possible without asking a mod. If the admins allow this, then this would just keep happening and the marines will just kill themselves before they even get to fight the xenos.

[Robotonic]

So, think about it this way, two people fight each-other at roundstart. Fistfight over attachments, right? Not much of a big deal, just fists, wait for an MP to sort it out. But one dude hits the other with their rifle a couple times, and then the other guy pulls out their shotgun and blasts the other's head off.
They would both be at fault, it would be ridiculous to assume two marines would fight over attachments and end up killing the other before they even hit the ground because one of them wanted a burstfire assembly that the other stole from them off the RO desk earlier.

If someone's aiming a rifle at you with the aim mechanic then you can reasonably assume their intent is not non-lethal, because if you simply moved they may end up shooting you depending on what the settings are. To be aiming that rifle at you they've accepted that in some way they might end up shooting you. It's best to de-escalate it, but if you shot them - take note of what I said above, no random round-start bullshit, this needs to have been done in a proper manner ICly - then you're not really at much fault though you could have potentially have handled it better by not getting in that situation in the first place. You'll likely be questioned by a moderator after depending on what occured, and you have no right to hack their head off in an attempt to permanently kill them. That's taking it too far.

If someone's shot at you and you've only been lightly injured it depends. It's lethal. Are they shooting at you right now? You should adminhelp instead of fighting back if they're griefing because you will likely get caught up in it yourself due to attack logs, but if it's an IC issue that's happened as a result of legitimate escalation then it's time to defend yourself. Now, second thing to add here, if they've clearly stopped firing at you for a while then it gets a bit fucky because you wouldn't blast someone's head into a wall a full minute after they've already stopped firing at you, unless they threaten you with it again. Get them arrested by M.P.'s or run like hell because you're probably real fucked up and need a medic anyway.

A fistfight shouldn't result in a shoot-out unless you've got a good reason for it or you're going to deal with the consequences of it. Don't reply to grief with grief, that's a terrible idea and will likely result in you being banned yourself.

And for god's sake stop getting yourself and other people killed because someone shoved or slipped you twenty times in a row and wouldn't stop it, resulting in a fistfight leading to a firefight, dead players and fucked-up rounds for everyone. When players see people getting shot, perhaps their friends being shot, they'll join in their defence often. You can trigger a massive fuckfest we really don't have the time to deal with just because you wanted to fling some lead bullets their direction because you can't de-escalate anything. You don't need to keep escalating it, just get an M.P. to throw their ass in the brig for 30 minutes. If someone's being a massive asshole adminhelp it, if they're non-stop shoving or slipping you they're going to be dealt with accordingly.

If they're chasing you down with fists then reply with shoves, fists and run some more if that's what you've decided on. Find an M.P, or if they keep chasing you whack them with something until they go away. If they're doing this for no reason then adminhelp it because that's pretty shitty. If you started firing at them with a rifle over a fistfight then that means the only way you'd be justified is if they either started stabbing or shooting you, or beat you into critical which is grief if they haven't got a damn good reason for it since they're practically murdering you here, and have quite obviously become the aggressor by chasing you whilst you attempt to run away.

So, seriously, common sense. You don't have to kill them and nine times out of ten it will just make it worse if you try to do so. You'll probably both die from injuries. If you both consent to it remember you're a human being not a madman, killing someone over petty theft would just be insane, and remember to adminhelp it too or you may be messed up by staff.

[Feweh]

All yes.

Guy pulls lethal knife on you, blast him.

[lcass123]

So, think about it this way, two people fight each-other at roundstart. Fistfight over attachments, right? Not much of a big deal, just fists, wait for an MP to sort it out. But one dude hits the other with their rifle a couple times, and then the other guy pulls out their shotgun and blasts the other's head off.
They would both be at fault, it would be ridiculous to assume two marines would fight over attachments and end up killing the other before they even hit the ground because one of them wanted a burstfire assembly that the other stole from them off the RO desk earlier.

If someone's aiming a rifle at you with the aim mechanic then you can reasonably assume their intent is not non-lethal, because if you simply moved they may end up shooting you depending on what the settings are. To be aiming that rifle at you they've accepted that in some way they might end up shooting you. It's best to de-escalate it, but if you shot them - take note of what I said above, no random round-start bullshit, this needs to have been done in a proper manner ICly - then you're not really at much fault though you could have potentially have handled it better by not getting in that situation in the first place. You'll likely be questioned by a moderator after depending on what occured, and you have no right to hack their head off in an attempt to permanently kill them. That's taking it too far.

If someone's shot at you and you've only been lightly injured it depends. It's lethal. Are they shooting at you right now? You should adminhelp instead of fighting back if they're griefing because you will likely get caught up in it yourself due to attack logs, but if it's an IC issue that's happened as a result of legitimate escalation then it's time to defend yourself. Now, second thing to add here, if they've clearly stopped firing at you for a while then it gets a bit fucky because you wouldn't blast someone's head into a wall a full minute after they've already stopped firing at you, unless they threaten you with it again. Get them arrested by M.P.'s or run like hell because you're probably real fucked up and need a medic anyway.

A fistfight shouldn't result in a shoot-out unless you've got a good reason for it or you're going to deal with the consequences of it. Don't reply to grief with grief, that's a terrible idea and will likely result in you being banned yourself.

And for god's sake stop getting yourself and other people killed because someone shoved or slipped you twenty times in a row and wouldn't stop it, resulting in a fistfight leading to a firefight, dead players and fucked-up rounds for everyone. When players see people getting shot, perhaps their friends being shot, they'll join in their defence often. You can trigger a massive fuckfest we really don't have the time to deal with just because you wanted to fling some lead bullets their direction because you can't de-escalate anything. You don't need to keep escalating it, just get an M.P. to throw their ass in the brig for 30 minutes. If someone's being a massive asshole adminhelp it, if they're non-stop shoving or slipping you they're going to be dealt with accordingly.

If they're chasing you down with fists then reply with shoves, fists and run some more if that's what you've decided on. Find an M.P, or if they keep chasing you whack them with something until they go away. If they're doing this for no reason then adminhelp it because that's pretty shitty. If you started firing at them with a rifle over a fistfight then that means the only way you'd be justified is if they either started stabbing or shooting you, or beat you into critical which is grief if they haven't got a damn good reason for it since they're practically murdering you here, and have quite obviously become the aggressor by chasing you whilst you attempt to run away.

So, seriously, common sense. You don't have to kill them and nine times out of ten it will just make it worse if you try to do so. You'll probably both die from injuries. If you both consent to it remember you're a human being not a madman, killing someone over petty theft would just be insane, and remember to adminhelp it too or you may be messed up by staff.

Yer for the context of the questions I was assuming reasonale IC reasoning not this unga stole my attachments

All yes.

Guy pulls lethal knife on you, blast him.

So the callibre or damage doesn't matter just someone showing full intent to use lethal force.

[Feweh]

Caliber of damage doesnt matter, it's the lethal weapon that matters.

Tasers, Punches, Stun Baton, Toolboxes, Crowbars... Can all be classified as non-lethal weapons. (Even though a crowbar/punch will eventually kill you)

Guns, Knives, Explosives and Grenades can all be classified as lethal intent, ie; they're trying to kill you quick and fast.

[lcass123]

Caliber of damage doesnt matter, it's the lethal weapon that matters.

Tasers, Punches, Stun Baton, Toolboxes, Crowbars... Can all be classified as non-lethal weapons. (Even though a crowbar/punch will eventually kill you)

Guns, Knives, Explosives and Grenades can all be classified as lethal intent, ie; they're trying to kill you quick and fast.

Cool, thanks for clarifying and a quick response.