A critique of the current version of Big Red

[spicemoron]

[Symbiosis]

There are a lot of Monkeys, yes. But the Marines are not limited by fog and it's a single Z level so far more young T3's get blasted.

The developers balance the way they do for good reason and they balanced Big Red with a specific idea in mind. It's a bloody map, lots of fighting. Probably one of my favorites personally - though I'm looking forward to Prison being in the rotation.

[Casany]

Counted 42 monkeys. So, 42+7 starters+3 survivors is about 52 xenos before marines even land if xenos are competent.

[Steelpoint]

Its less that and more that the Marines can wipe the Aliens down to a half dozen but the Aliens can make a rapid come back if the Marines cannot push the advantage fast enough. Which is easier said than done due to the attrition Marines suffer.

We've all seen instances where less than half a dozen aliens are able to take a hour to make a comeback after being wiped out two or so times because the Marines simply lose all cohesion. Add to that the powernet issues so communications are precarious and similar.

[Casany]

Its less that and more that the Marines can wipe the Aliens down to a half dozen but the Aliens can make a rapid come back if the Marines cannot push the advantage fast enough. Which is easier said than done due to the attrition Marines suffer.

We've all seen instances where less than half a dozen aliens are able to take a hour to make a comeback after being wiped out two or so times because the Marines simply lose all cohesion. Add to that the powernet issues so communications are precarious and similar.

This

It delays the round.

[Feweh]

Marines are stronger on Big Red and theres no early fog restrictions or major landmark blockage (river/underground)

Hence more respawns for xenos.

[lcass123]

thing is it doesn't scale well with player count, on a round with about 30 players there were still a huge number of monkeys

[Symbiosis]

thing is it doesn't scale well with player count, on a round with about 30 players there were still a huge number of monkeys

Marines are rewarded for being aggressive and cohesive.

Building a FOB and sitting in it is doomed for failure 95%+ of the time. The only time FOB's exist as a viable option is after intense fighting and both sides are dwindled down.

[Feweh]

thing is it doesn't scale well with player count, on a round with about 30 players there were still a huge number of monkeys

CM really isn't made well for low-pop.
You can do a lot of shit that you can't during high pop.

[Nyeshivuu]

I remember being an SO on big red, the marines had been pushed back to the FoB and i was sure we would lose, but we didn't and 6 queens died that day.

[lcass123]

CM really isn't made well for low-pop.
You can do a lot of shit that you can't during high pop.

Thing is it varies, generally low pop gives marines on LV a huge advantage which is more enjoyable to play marines on. There is less FF and the marines in general are more robust.

On big red having all these monkeys means that no matter the pop they have twice the respawn amount of the entire marine force at times even if we are nearing 50 pop.

[spicemoron]

I remember being an SO on big red, the marines had been pushed back to the FoB and i was sure we would lose, but we didn't and 6 queens died that day.

Given how often the xenos just ignore (or are unaware of) a lot of the monkeys on the map it probably could have been 7 or 8 queens if they made sure to infest em all.

Which should be proof that 40 monkeys is excessive, given how the xenos either have enough larva to never need to infest marines, or don't want to delay the round by fleeing to one of the several unused monkey caches.

[Zilenan91]

The main problem with all the hosts is that there's rarely enough players to fill them. I remember a round xenos lost where there was consistently 20 larva SSD in the hive at all times until they eventually were blown up by the marines pushing in.

[Nyeshivuu]

I have an idea, there should be just enough monkeys depending on the players so they have more incentive to capture humans and they don't have a surplus of larva insuring they can't lose easily. Don't know how that would work in BYOND though.

[Tidomann]

Just make the atmosphere of big Red completely hostile to life. Marines would have to wear internals, and monkeys would not survive outside of buildings.

It's a marine buff.

Now on a serious note

Big Red has a unique feel in the combat because the alien presence is felt much stronger.

It's as close as you can get to the feeling of a swarm constantly bouncing on your forward troops in the limited pool of players we have.

The suggestion of altering round start monkeys works in theory- but how do you factor for marine late joins, or sudden population increase over the course of the round?

[spicemoron]

The suggestion of altering round start monkeys works in theory- but how do you factor for marine late joins, or sudden population increase over the course of the round?

You count it or just don't Beats having a static amount of monkeys in rounds with 50 players and rounds with 150 players.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

I think there was a suggestion a whole ago about scaling the number of monkeys to how many players are on the server. Not sure what the devs ruling was on it though.

[caleeb101]

it works, it's ok

edit: xenos still destroy marines on big red though