This game is a flawed masterpiece and it's terrifying!

[MetaphysicalBeing]

Hello I'm going to deeply tell you what this game does right and does wrong I hope to get response from the people who read this and some critical responses and thoughts, you guys probably don't know my Ckey but that doesn't matter but I do play these people if you're curious to who I am.

Kyo 'Beast' De'Lune

Aoi Bell

Roovic Eins

Many more...

I am just a simple RPer I love to RP and build weird characters and watch peoples reactions to my acts, I don't care if you like them are not I just use them as a social science in a sense, I learn a lot from OOC and IC feed back from you guys.

Now here is the real meat you wanted to see.

Why This Game Is Amazing Trash

This game is very unique and amazing I agree with that, you can never get another experience from a game like this ever. but being the only one of it's kind you'll never see a good version of this game either..

The game has awful game design and no real balancing (though balancing isn't really the problem) there are set win rates which if you think of it is very terrible game design (Basically you are made to fail) Xenos are to win something of %70 of the time to marines %30 of the time, so basically marines are being suppressed intentionally so Xenos win more through bad mechanics and illogical design.

Marines are unable too read pills, pill bottles, use syringes and auto injectors which for some reason makes no sense and cost many marines their lives when they could of injected themselves with an auto injector (Even though as inquired before marines would still have lost) nerfing is always bad and ruins fun in many places and replaces it with inconvenience

At a point this isn't even a game it's more of an experience or a odd reenactment because in such a way we are setup to lose in a way till people express their frustration in memes and ridicule of design in inconspicuous ways hoping someone will eventually catch on and addressing this problem because in a way it is a bit taboo to speak about mechanics and gameplay without getting some kind of rash feedback from players or sarcastic blurt of text from a mod/dev/admin.

I.E
Random player:"U just salt"
Random Admin/dev/mod:"Nerfing marine, guns shoot BB bullets now"

This game is amazing and I love it and it is an experience, what game allows you to wake up eat, get geared, and do very simple mundane things like it? You might not think much of it but these stuff really mends the world and experience together, as well as launching CAS/OB strike is so surreal, the amount of communication and cooperation that has to be made to achieve usefulness is sublime and make the experience much more rewarding.

If you sum it up morbidly the game is really just satisfaction in frustration and struggle to get a small goal done and most likely in the end to have none of it matter due to the shear power of the xeno, it' a RP of humanity and being worthless and just enjoying your moment of suffering and hoping you were remembered or noticed in the moment you died or at least having someone find humor in your death because the only damn way a marine wins is if only the Xenos let them win... or through admin intervention.

The Debate

Now the reason why devs or people say the xenos are OP varies person to person form my experience.

Devs say it's because not many people play xenos so they need the extra strength, and players who back this say it's true because if xenos don't have strength they have nothing unlike marines who are free to be snowflakes or whatever, Xenos are just mindless killing machines and the people who play them do just that and care little for RP or anything, which is fine I believe but kinda messed up.

Others say like I mention before, people just want to be noticed and they have a chance of being remembered playing a marine (Have I mind you they are all very expendable as well.) and being a xenos isn't as much fun as marine. Though I find that as a personal problem because at heart this is a RP game and once you RP everything changes.

Now xenos don't have to be balanced to be on par with marines that itself is horrible game design but there are better ways to go about making xenos powerful and not so infallible with no flaw, doing this will give xeno players more to work with and eventually making xenos more skill prone to win and not so insta killy.

Xeno Game mechanic Ideas (Feel free to debate this)

Attacking regenerates HP----- Tell me if you haven't heard this before, --> Xeno runs up to marine scratches him, get shot a few, runs back, wait till full heal, runs back to marine, scratches him, get shot runs back, heal, repeat until marine dies or leaves. Now not all xenos do this but it common and prolongs battles way more than they should and the marine can't really do anything because once the marine chases he is subjected to gank or pounce.

The mechanical idea is that if xenos regenerate HP on attacks it will enforce offensive gameplay giving a huge buff to xenos and making games move faster in a sense, and it also makes the xenos seem more aggressive as they are portrayed in film and other sources.

Delayed pounce/ Pounce change----- Now pounce is the most salting move known to xeno and all of SS13 combat and most xeno moves just abuse stuns which is a key element of the SS13 combat triangle (Stuns,Equipment,RNG), a change you can implement is a delayed pounce that takes strategical use to master but yet still still reliable to use in combat but. The idea is if a hunter is hiding in the shadow she ca perform it easily without being seen but if in combat it'll take a bit more thinking to use properly and not just so spammable, also maybe let marines have a guard stance that allows them to block / counter a pounce but in trade the marine moves slower and can't attack while guarding or it's a timing thing where if done at the wrong time xenos get to do extra damage after the pounce.

Mechanically the pounce will be a toggle... one activated it will then say "Getting into crouching position" then xenos will move slightly slow as that they are crouching then three seconds later it will say "pounce ready" and they may pounce as usual, a buff to add is longer ranges do to the wait and maybe upgraded hunters have quick pounce stances and quicker pounce moving position.


Maintaining weeds--------- I feel that weeds should be maintained by a xeno or else they die out after a while, it doesn't have to be every second but if they do not provide nutrition to their fast growing weeds it will loose power and have lessened effects like slower HP regen, but if well cared they could make special weeds like some that refill plasma faster or hp faster or weeds that hide the the xenos in them, maybe even weeds that alert when a human walk on them or other life form.


nuerotoxin spit doesn't make you fall on first hit--------- It takes you into a short lived pain crit like similar to stun batton.
Other Suggestions

Maybe add a synth death squad? http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_android

Research can create anti embryo cures to inject into infected people.

Research can create weed killer.

Research can create Hybrid human xenos like ripley 8 (Think of the mechanic way of doing this like the golems from SS13)

Guns should miss less...

Human vs Human rounds should be more organized ( I know it's usually impromptu but you devs usually just keep shoving more and more CLF into a round until they win USCM which beats the purpose of a CLF medbay or anything because you'll spawn back on another transport which makes some CLF a bit suicidal going all out trying to kill will little regards and little RP, I know USCM out numbers but maybe just send like a set amount of ships and not just try to please the masses always?)

Synopsis

No doubt you devs work hard on this game and I believe you've made a absolute masterpiece I hope this game will thrive on and more people will donate because this game itself a very unique experience and I just hope you take in some of the ideas I mention and kinda think about suggestions.

Or just ignore me because in the end you have the right to do what the hell you want and no doubt changes or not people will still play the game including me.

With all that said what do you the masses think about this?

Are my ideas sound, do debate and answer this poll.

-------------->http://www.strawpoll.me/14063211 <-----------------------

I still have more ideas and thoughts but this is enough for now.

[Cairath]

If you've got suggestions, head here and post them, you might just get something implemented.

Be it as it may, I wouldn't say that the win rates are set in stone. Yes, when one looks at the raw data, it's easy to say that the Xenomorphs have a noticeable advantage in the game, but this isn't exactly true. If you were to take all the marine wins and xeno wins and put them on a graph, you'd likely see that wins are often clustered together. Marine wins are based on the presence of quite a few factors such as strong communication, a good command and a few robust marine while xenomorphs win mostly by exploiting weaknesses within the marine ranks.

What I'm trying to say there is that when there's a marine win, it's not alone. You'll often see about 3-4 marine wins strung along at times, mostly because that golden composition of skill, luck and obedience. In that regard, I feel like the game is balanced at the very least a bit.

Also, keep this in mind, most players play Marines. If marines continuously won and had an advantage over the xenos, there wouldn't be as great of a satisfaction. When you however face harsher odds and fight against an enemy that can lurk back in the shadows to regenerate, you feel that much better when you thin its ranks and ultimately win. Think about it this way: When a xeno kills a marine, it's not much of a celebration, but when a few marines take down a T3, you can expect a parade in command and at least someone yelling into coms. Even T1 and T2 kills make Marines feel great.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

If you've got suggestions, head here and post them, you might just get something implemented.

Be it as it may, I wouldn't say that the win rates are set in stone. Yes, when one looks at the raw data, it's easy to say that the Xenomorphs have a noticeable advantage in the game, but this isn't exactly true. If you were to take all the marine wins and xeno wins and put them on a graph, you'd likely see that wins are often clustered together. Marine wins are based on the presence of quite a few factors such as strong communication, a good command and a few robust marine while xenomorphs win mostly by exploiting weaknesses within the marine ranks.

What I'm trying to say there is that when there's a marine win, it's not alone. You'll often see about 3-4 marine wins strung along at times, mostly because that golden composition of skill, luck and obedience. In that regard, I feel like the game is balanced at the very least a bit.

Also, keep this in mind, most players play Marines. If marines continuously won and had an advantage over the xenos, there wouldn't be as great of a satisfaction. When you however face harsher odds and fight against an enemy that can lurk back in the shadows to regenerate, you feel that much better when you thin its ranks and ultimately win. Think about it this way: When a xeno kills a marine, it's not much of a celebration, but when a few marines take down a T3, you can expect a parade in command and at least someone yelling into coms. Even T1 and T2 kills make Marines feel great.

I agree with you %85 but I don't think there is a graph for xeno to marine wins, and no marine is robust I've played a marine long enough to tell you all there is, is FF and baldness.
also I wasn't trying to make a suggestion forum I just happen to add it.

Lastly command does nothing, it's all just a show the most they can do is to tell them to attack or retreat because most marines don't even care, And serious xeno players can defeat marines in a snap when I was a young sniper on the battle field I saw something that drew my attention hard, something that ensured the marines defeat. I saw a crusher guarding a boiler, I know this might not sound amazing but it was a augur that predicted the rest of the round, had great team synergy and communication making elaborate hives and using tactics showing we hand no chance... 25 minutes later the round was over I was captured the xenos won.

Listen xenos always win, if marines win it's because the Xenos let them.

[KingKire]

Oh yah, this game is flawed, but for a small dev team and about 2 years of work (which has been passed hand from hand as opposed to paid labor), this game is a pretty sweet gem to come across in the wild. I've seen much crappier games come out with alot more work put into them, which is why i really do fancy CM alot (open up that donation page, accept my money, cross the evil border into Paradise...hehe)

I think that in all honesty that CM really has a good grasp on its core, which is a solid depiction of the Aliens movie as a marine.

Theres a bucket list of things i wish were in CM, but most of its packaging and flair, which is all extra fluff to make a person dive in deeper. What makes a person try to dive into a game in the first place is its core, and CM has a pretty solid one. Its not perfect yet, but its pretty nice for sure.


Aliens winning 70% of the time isnt bad imo, alot of games have improper balance sets yet are still pretty fun, and i think CM nails that pretty well. I wish Aliens had more of a deeper tool chest and ways to at least express individual players a little bit for sure.

Mini-Bucket list
-Training:
Somehow, making some sort of tutorial to help get people trained for CM. I love that SS13 has a massive amount of depth to it. I love that hacking, building, chemistry, etc., all form into this massive skill curve for people to really sink their teeth into. Its great.
But, getting new players into this game can be a real chore. Now, how to fix getting people up to speed without losing the skill curve, thats a hard answer.

-Shooting/ tiles:
I wish ss13's engine has less of a tile-lock to its game and had more free movement to its projectiles and such. Maybe even movement too, idk. But definitly unlocking projectiles from tile movement to a straight line i think would remove alot of clunkyness and make it feel much more smooth.

-Aesthetics:
God, i love CM and SS13's pixel style. I also love Aliens and 80's dark industrial style's. Mixing them both is such a beautiful baby, and i wish to see more of it. I wish we had that cheesy 90's Extra-High Resolution pixel art CloseUps of objects pop up when you examine them (Like our detailed forum page banner). Leisure suit larry, KingsQuest, Monkey Island, Etc.

Examining a rifle gives a pop up high res pixel art of the gun in the top right window or something. hehe, so cool.



Oh, and horror themes, we need more horror. Music, art, Thematic's, etc. God, i want to feel some goosebumps. that would be fucking cool as shit. Ive felt them before, but its rare as hell, but shit is it awesome to feel the adrenaline of good dread with some icy terror down your spine.

*also, everything on the mini-bucket list isnt easy for sure to do. hell rewriting bullet code haha, fun times. but damn, it would be cool though.

Oh, and more dynamic lighting, woo wee that'd be cool. Directional flashlights, gives new meaning to be jumping at shadows haha.

[Bronimin]

Here's a suggestion: HUD for requisitions staff to put notes on marines so that Kyo can't double-dip and try to stealth out six different attachments for their side-arm. I think that this will lead to a massively increased marine win-rate.

I would be in favour of monthly 'Boot Camp' to make people better at playing Marine, sorta like Ass Day.

[taketheshot56]

Honestly yes, I wish there was a "Bootcamp" Station, where new players can learn the ropes. I for one played my first SS13 round on CM as XO, needless to say it was horrific. Point being, it would be cool to see some sort of basic training thing.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

-Shooting/ tiles:
I wish ss13's engine has less of a tile-lock to its game and had more free movement to its projectiles and such. Maybe even movement too, idk. But definitly unlocking projectiles from tile movement to a straight line i think would remove alot of clunkyness and make it feel much more smooth.

-Aesthetics:
God, i love CM and SS13's pixel style. I also love Aliens and 80's dark industrial style's. Mixing them both is such a beautiful baby, and i wish to see more of it. I wish we had that cheesy 90's Extra-High Resolution pixel art CloseUps of objects pop up when you examine them (Like our detailed forum page banner). Leisure suit larry, KingsQuest, Monkey Island, Etc.

Examining a rifle gives a pop up high res pixel art of the gun in the top right window or something. hehe, so cool.

You have some good idea here as well, the aesthetic I like but I would't care much if it changed but a menu where you can examine items and get like a full pop up like Resident evil 2 style would be amazing.

The shooting you're spot on, the shooting feel loose and bad as heck but I still feel it's workable but also I think goon has the best shooting on any server and it's probably what you had in mind.

I really hope we move slowly move from the horrible SS13 combat it's just a vicious system that really holds no true skill, just Stun,RNG,and Equipment but don't get me wrong there are times where skill show but it's very rare and loose.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

Here's a suggestion: HUD for requisitions staff to put notes on marines so that Kyo can't double-dip and try to stealth out six different attachments for their side-arm. I think that this will lead to a massively increased marine win-rate.

I would be in favour of monthly 'Boot Camp' to make people better at playing Marine, sorta like Ass Day.

Haha- If you haven't realized that is part of the CM RP experience, being a person like me creates more flavor for the round creating more opportunities to RP and RP can get you so many things in my experience.

Think if this game were like call of duty where you just spawn in with your gear and just start planet side and already shooting xenos. Do you think that game would be just as loved as what we have now?

Try to enjoy the little thing and not think too much about your job, be a character and live a little. It never really hurts to give a PFC a BC maybe he'll save someone with his extra fire power, maybe he'll decap someone, maybe it could of gone to better use but whenever it's done it RP it never feels like a waste, try to see where these adventures take you.

[davidofmk771]

I agree that as of now, nerfs and buffs can feel very punishing, but I believe that the mappers, devs, and spriters are working very hard to introduce new and novel maps, mechanics, and toys. To fit in whatever they plan on doing next, they have to sand down the marines and soup up the xenos, and i'm perfectly happy with that. The inventory update was a general plus with the introduction of pouches at the expense of our 40-round M41A mag hard-RP. As a marine main, I don't really mind the game being unbalanced towards xenos as long as I have lots of fun, new things to do and play with because of it.

Honestly yes, I wish there was a "Bootcamp" Station, where new players can learn the ropes. I for one played my first SS13 round on CM as XO, needless to say it was horrific. Point being, it would be cool to see some sort of basic training thing.

I really like this idea, too. I've been thinking of some VR simulation pod to help those suffering from temporary cryosleep confusion catch up on what they do, it fits the lore and it seems easy enough to implement.

[Kernir]

I kind of weighed in on this one last night and I can see that you didn't really take anything I said to heart, so I'll say it again in the hopes that you give it a little more consideration this time.

The ideas that you have of changing aliens is along the blizzard school of design balancing, changing things that are fine to fit a more... classical design? I'd almost say it's more similar to an arcade death match and less of a fight against all odds that marines currently have to go through, though the fact that you use such harsh words as "Trash", "Illogial design" and "bad mechanics" seems like you don't quite respect the team that put in as much effort as they do. Everything that happens and all of the things that are or are not implemented are conversed over, there is a constant dialogue between everyone in the development team for what they believe fits the aesthetic of the server.

I don't want to come across as if i'm saying that suggestions are pointless because you don't understand some obscure cosmic mystery, but what I am saying is that you shouldn't expect significant changes made from suggestions to really stand up to vigorous inspection without there being a significant amount of time and effort poured into them.

Colonial Marines is a medium roleplay server and sometimes game mechanics will have to facilitate changes that while from a top down view seem odd (Marines can't read pill labels) have to be implemented to facilitate certain game play features (The skill system)
If you consider back to the first implementation Marines weren't even able to swallow pills given to them by medics which doesn't make a lot of sense, so at some point in the Person -> Container -> Pill loop there had to be a check to prevent marines from understanding what each of the pills would do. Even the hardiest among us would be hard pressed to ignore the bicardine bottle after being stomped on by a crusher, so something had to be implemented to give marines the ability to still act but do so without perfect information.

Is it elegant? Sort of, considering the system it's quite the achievement but does it make real world sense? Not really... But it does the job better than most could have expected.

At any rate I'll stop before I write a full essay on the matter, Cairath had one of the best suggestion in the thread. If you want to offer up suggestions the best place to do it now is over at https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues where they'll be seen directly by the development team.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

I kind of weighed in on this one last night and I can see that you didn't really take anything I said to heart, so I'll say it again in the hopes that you give it a little more consideration this time.

The ideas that you have of changing aliens is along the blizzard school of design balancing, changing things that are fine to fit a more... classical design? I'd almost say it's more similar to an arcade death match and less of a fight against all odds that marines currently have to go through, though the fact that you use such harsh words as "Trash", "Illogial design" and "bad mechanics" seems like you don't quite respect the team that put in as much effort as they do. Everything that happens and all of the things that are or are not implemented are conversed over, there is a constant dialogue between everyone in the development team for what they believe fits the aesthetic of the server.

I don't want to come across as if i'm saying that suggestions are pointless because you don't understand some obscure cosmic mystery, but what I am saying is that you shouldn't expect significant changes made from suggestions to really stand up to vigorous inspection without there being a significant amount of time and effort poured into them.

Colonial Marines is a medium roleplay server and sometimes game mechanics will have to facilitate changes that while from a top down view seem odd (Marines can't read pill labels) have to be implemented to facilitate certain game play features (The skill system)
If you consider back to the first implementation Marines weren't even able to swallow pills given to them by medics which doesn't make a lot of sense, so at some point in the Person -> Container -> Pill loop there had to be a check to prevent marines from understanding what each of the pills would do. Even the hardiest among us would be hard pressed to ignore the bicardine bottle after being stomped on by a crusher, so something had to be implemented to give marines the ability to still act but do so without perfect information.

Is it elegant? Sort of, considering the system it's quite the achievement but does it make real world sense? Not really... But it does the job better than most could have expected.

At any rate I'll stop before I write a full essay on the matter, Cairath had one of the best suggestion in the thread. If you want to offer up suggestions the best place to do it now is over at https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues where they'll be seen directly by the development team.

You're right I didn't take what you said to heart and actually I forgot what you said it was 2:00AM at that time and I was sleepy and I tried to make a direct as possible post and a sort of analysis of CM:SS13

And no, as I said before I don't want the game to be balanced at all I want it to have a sort of asymmetrical balancing but I feel it can be made better and not in such poor confusing ways also my word choice isn't to inflict negative connotation to the game mechanic itself but yet to show a representation on how I feel to the design, in all it's a bit exaggerated but I respect the team's work to use SS13 gameplay and make this game being that SS13 combat is greatly flawed and most people dislike it but it still has it's shitty uniqueness.

But you're telling there aren't better ways of achieving goals to make marines nerfed?
Though marines are basically walking pillows and never win.



Sorry again but that is awful game design at heart again, you use such gimmick ways to achieve simple goals but mostly in the end it shouldn't really matter because marines lose regardless.

Don't think I hate this game or the devs like I mentioned this game is a flawed masterpiece if it wasn't this atrocious and abhorrent it would probably lose it's charm, in general people love the struggle against a unrelenting force, people love to lose so they can get a understanding that there is no hope, people love to fight against the odds and when the time comes and are victorious, they rejoice to hell getting the biggest feel of jubilant, triumph, and relief.

In a sense people love fighting the power even when they know they'll lose.

This game is life, feeling you can control the world as man giving the illusion of power but in the end you know nothing; no one knows a thing about anything we just happen to get "Lucky" at times we all die and go nowhere and no amount of will can lead you to whatever fictitious victory you have in your mind, this game is just a play of suffering and torment and we all love it.

Not many see this on the surface and just feel maybe next time we win, but it ain't winning... It's luck.

[SolarMacharius]

I think saying marines only win because Xenos let them does a disservice to the marines. I know people like to categorize the marines as a bunch of baldies who cant aim, but the majority of marine players are at least semi competent. Command is also integral, even if it seems like they don't do much. Playing a round without command greatly increases the chance of a marine loss because their is zero coordination and direction. Marines don't always win from luck. Winning from luck is basically based on where the dropship lands during the hijack. Winning from good planning and competent fighting is how the marines win on the planet. It happens, in fact it happens a lot. The marines have been on several winning streaks lately, even on Ice colony, a map that is notoriously bad for marines to fight on.

Basically I think you categorizing all marines as baldies with shit gear who only win from luck or because the Xenos throw on purpose to be a grossly incorrect statement.

[Aestel]

The real reason why the marines lose most of the time is incompetence. This game is 100% winnable every time provided the marines have a command structure that works together. The current meta of breaking the squads up into groups unable to support and assist one another by commanders is why they lose. The proper way to command is have the squads push a point from different flanks all at once, and you will win every time.

The problem is you have marines that don't follow their SL and run off and die, and commanders(aka some most current commanders) who order one or two squads to jerk off for an hour in an FOB and they lose half the platoon while they RP space dictator. Get rid of those two things, and you will see a drastic shift in winrates. NO amount of buffs in the world will make up for proper coordination. In the time I've played on this server, I have not once seen an FOB serve as anything more than a delaying factor. If you are down to the FOB squad, you already lost against a semi-competent xenoteam.

But to debate your points(As someone who mostly plays SL/Spec/Queen/Ravager):

Devs say it's because not many people play xenos so they need the extra strength, and players who back this say it's true because if xenos don't have strength they have nothing unlike marines who are free to be snowflakes or whatever, Xenos are just mindless killing machines and the people who play them do just that and care little for RP or anything, which is fine I believe but kinda messed up.

They have the strength because they lack the numbers of the marines. Xenos didn't RP as anything more than killing machines in the movies either except to increase size of hive, kill humans, and protect queen.

Others say like I mention before, people just want to be noticed and they have a chance of being remembered playing a marine (Have I mind you they are all very expendable as well.) and being a xenos isn't as much fun as marine. Though I find that as a personal problem because at heart this is a RP game and once you RP everything changes.

RPing is fine, but so is being a standard marine that wants to fight. RP does include combat you know. Also, just because marines have numbers does not mean they are expendable. As a squad you are a deathball with a shit ton of you, you are strong. Lose too many, and you die. Same goes for xenos.

Now xenos don't have to be balanced to be on par with marines that itself is horrible game design but there are better ways to go about making xenos powerful and not so infallible with no flaw, doing this will give xeno players more to work with and eventually making xenos more skill prone to win and not so insta killy.

Don't be alone. You talked about liking RP. As a marine, you never abandon your squad.

Attacking regenerates HP----- Tell me if you haven't heard this before, --> Xeno runs up to marine scratches him, get shot a few, runs back, wait till full heal, runs back to marine, scratches him, get shot runs back, heal, repeat until marine dies or leaves. Now not all xenos do this but it common and prolongs battles way more than they should and the marine can't really do anything because once the marine chases he is subjected to gank or pounce.

The mechanical idea is that if xenos regenerate HP on attacks it will enforce offensive gameplay giving a huge buff to xenos and making games move faster in a sense, and it also makes the xenos seem more aggressive as they are portrayed in film and other sources.

Xenos are already offensive by nature. Guerilla warfare is their specialty. The problem is marines do not push them as a group. Light a hunter on fire, and it will eventually have to put itself out and you'll catch it, or it dies.

Delayed pounce/ Pounce change----- Now pounce is the most salting move known to xeno and all of SS13 combat and most xeno moves just abuse stuns which is a key element of the SS13 combat triangle (Stuns,Equipment,RNG), a change you can implement is a delayed pounce that takes strategical use to master but yet still still reliable to use in combat but. The idea is if a hunter is hiding in the shadow she ca perform it easily without being seen but if in combat it'll take a bit more thinking to use properly and not just so spammable, also maybe let marines have a guard stance that allows them to block / counter a pounce but in trade the marine moves slower and can't attack while guarding or it's a timing thing where if done at the wrong time xenos get to do extra damage after the pounce.

Mechanically the pounce will be a toggle... one activated it will then say "Getting into crouching position" then xenos will move slightly slow as that they are crouching then three seconds later it will say "pounce ready" and they may pounce as usual, a buff to add is longer ranges do to the wait and maybe upgraded hunters have quick pounce stances and quicker pounce moving position.

If you are getting pounced as a marine from anything that isn't a ravager(and I'll talk about that in a moment) you were away from your squad, or the hunter who is now stunned is dead(They can't move either after a pounce). For ravagers, you'll always see them coming, and with proper positioning, you will never EVER get hit.

This idea nerfs the xenos gamestyle far too much, next.

Maintaining weeds--------- I feel that weeds should be maintained by a xeno or else they die out after a while, it doesn't have to be every second but if they do not provide nutrition to their fast growing weeds it will loose power and have lessened effects like slower HP regen, but if well cared they could make special weeds like some that refill plasma faster or hp faster or weeds that hide the the xenos in them, maybe even weeds that alert when a human walk on them or other life form.

Or you could just... Cut them, takes one click.

nuerotoxin spit doesn't make you fall on first hit--------- It takes you into a short lived pain crit like similar to stun batton.

And with that, no marines were ever captured again.

[Renomaki]

The real reason why the marines lose most of the time is incompetence. This game is 100% winnable every time provided the marines have a command structure that works together. The current meta of breaking the squads up into groups unable to support and assist one another by commanders is why they lose. The proper way to command is have the squads push a point from different flanks all at once, and you will win every time.

The problem is you have marines that don't follow their SL and run off and die, and commanders(aka some most current commanders) who order one or two squads to jerk off for an hour in an FOB and they lose half the platoon while they RP space dictator. Get rid of those two things, and you will see a drastic shift in winrates. NO amount of buffs in the world will make up for proper coordination. In the time I've played on this server, I have not once seen an FOB serve as anything more than a delaying factor. If you are down to the FOB squad, you already lost against a semi-competent xenoteam.

Well, to be honest, even if you send every squad to the front lines, most of the time it just results in them blobbing up and friendly-firing each other to death because there are too many people clustered up in one place. 2 squads can do just as much as 4 squads, provided everyone is given a clear line of sight and plenty of space to move.

Also, while it would be easy to have EVERY SINGLE SQUAD push towards a single point on the map from every available angle and overwhelm them.. You have to remember, would this make sense? Like, you landed on a planet and have no idea what is going on, people start blabbing about weird alien things fucking em up, how would you react? Would it be logical for a commander to randomly jump the gun and throw everything he has at a threat without any form of buildup?

Also, sometimes it is good to have a squad in the FoB to act both as guards and as reserves. If aliens decide to pull a massive flank and bumrush the FoB, having SOMEONE to ensure they don't rush the dropship wouldn't hurt. And in the event of a large-scale battle, having some well-rested reserves is better than throwing everyone at once at a target, again resulting in an overly cluttered battlefield where only 50% of the men (at MOST) are able to fire their guns, while the rest have to struggle to find an opening.

Not part of the topic, but just sayin..

[Aestel]

Well, to be honest, even if you send every squad to the front lines, most of the time it just results in them blobbing up and friendly-firing each other to death because there are too many people clustered up in one place. 2 squads can do just as much as 4 squads, provided everyone is given a clear line of sight and plenty of space to move.

Also, while it would be easy to have EVERY SINGLE SQUAD push towards a single point on the map from every available angle and overwhelm them.. You have to remember, would this make sense? Like, you landed on a planet and have no idea what is going on, people start blabbing about weird alien things fucking em up, how would you react? Would it be logical for a commander to randomly jump the gun and throw everything he has at a threat without any form of buildup?

Also, sometimes it is good to have a squad in the FoB to act both as guards and as reserves. If aliens decide to pull a massive flank and bumrush the FoB, having SOMEONE to ensure they don't rush the dropship wouldn't hurt. And in the event of a large-scale battle, having some well-rested reserves is better than throwing everyone at once at a target, again resulting in an overly cluttered battlefield where only 50% of the men (at MOST) are able to fire their guns, while the rest have to struggle to find an opening.

Not part of the topic, but just sayin..

I wasn't fully done with my post but wanted to get it out there. It really depends on where the aliens are. The beach on LV is a prime position for a 4 squad blitz, so is Lambda and underground ice, you just need to avoid making too big of a blob by using different flanks. That again comes down to the SLs/command staff. If the xenos bum rush the LZ, let them(Puts them into a very bad position). They can have the dropship. Its unlikely they will breach the shutters in time, and the POs can take off after a minute or so at which point the entire blob of marines has them cornered. Or worst case scenario, they steal the dropship, and now you are fighting a full platoon on the alamayer which they will again lose.

As for the logic, if I see as a commander a shit ton of really big xenos in one position (they always are), I would indeed have all available squads converge on them. This isn't a rumor when you have literal head cameras. If the SOs aren't relaying, they are shitty SOs and should be tossed out the nearest airlock.

[Skubblers]

Mini-Bucket list
-Training:
Somehow, making some sort of tutorial to help get people trained for CM. I love that SS13 has a massive amount of depth to it. I love that hacking, building, chemistry, etc., all form into this massive skill curve for people to really sink their teeth into. Its great.
But, getting new players into this game can be a real chore. Now, how to fix getting people up to speed without losing the skill curve, thats a hard answer.

Totally unrelated to the rest of the thread, but I would absolutely love a method of training new players in CM.

A short while ago I was THIS close to suggesting some sort of shipside drill instructor type of class alongside a recruit class, with their own little area on the Almayer to do drills, learn the ropes, etc all in an IC context. DI could even order range movements to the firing range to instill a sense of squad cohesion or something. The suggestion of davidofmk771 for a VR training sim is also really good, even to the point of sounding feasible, but what do I know?

The main problem I saw - beyond the obvious difficulty of implementation and the work going into it - would be that the Almayer is a patrol transport ship and would under no circumstances bring along a contingent of new marine recruits or a DI to accompany them. Oh well.

As an aside, I like that it's hard to win as marines and I like that the actual human error and general insubordination of its real, human players is a part of that dynamic. I think it fits well in a world where the marines and all shipside personnell have never seen these things before, and employing tactics against xenos that you would use on a human foe (at least during the initial bouts) makes more sense than hitting the ground and knowing exactly where the alien scum can shove it, immediately, without any progression and escalation.

Having some marines act careless around this new foe - because their player acts carelessly - is annoying, I'm sure, but it's fun to watch. I can see how acting out the same initial 30 minutes of a round can be annoying when you just want to win, but winning is for baby-brain losers. Fact of life.

[Skimmy2]

Snip-

You can add a Drill Instructor like role on the Almayer by simply making him the Platoon Sergeant/Aide De Camp of the CO. He would spawn right outside of the cryo room fully dressed and responsible with motivating/ensuring discipline for the marines once they wake up, amongst other duties. Having a peer whos job is to readily assist any lost/new marines can be reassuring, I know I had to play a few rounds and spectate watch my friend when introducing them to CM's mechanics.

Really the major issue with training is time, you are expected to be combat ready and deploy in 20-30 minutes and that doesint leave a lot of room, especially if you are a higher rank then PFC.
Likewise while everyone can do a nice one on one learning session from time to time, the training that would be most beneficial is squad tactics and maneuvers, and barring the creation of an entirely seperate training server, Marines wont have the luxury of training as an entire squad any time soon.

[Skubblers]

scissors

Agreed on all points, the time issue especially. Regrettably, I don't think even PFCs would stick around to get shouted at by Platoon Sergeant Rimhole, as much as I think it would be cool to have to gear up, line up for inspection, that kind of thing. Everybody just wants to hit the canteen, gear, get RO'd and then go steal the megaphone.

The Platoon Sergeant/Aide De Camp idea is really good, I'll hold on to hope that something along these lines is implemented one day.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

I wasn't fully done with my post but wanted to get it out there. It really depends on where the aliens are. The beach on LV is a prime position for a 4 squad blitz, so is Lambda and underground ice, you just need to avoid making too big of a blob by using different flanks. That again comes down to the SLs/command staff. If the xenos bum rush the LZ, let them(Puts them into a very bad position). They can have the dropship. Its unlikely they will breach the shutters in time, and the POs can take off after a minute or so at which point the entire blob of marines has them cornered. Or worst case scenario, they steal the dropship, and now you are fighting a full platoon on the alamayer which they will again lose.

As for the logic, if I see as a commander a shit ton of really big xenos in one position (they always are), I would indeed have all available squads converge on them. This isn't a rumor when you have literal head cameras. If the SOs aren't relaying, they are shitty SOs and should be tossed out the nearest airlock.

Everyone things rushing and attacking will work, The players no matter how long they've been playing for they've never learned a thing the same mistakes are made every round.

There is this phenomenon I call "Itchy finger" Where every marine feels obligated to be in the action and shooting at everything they see with no sense of teamwork until they are damaged or dying.
You see it building when you give marines FoB duty, they get very bored and start to do their own thing or even AFK, Marines in general just want to be the light of the show so they can brag about what they did either in dead chat or OOC chat.

In short in big groups there is more entropy and nothing gets done but FF and ramboing.

Also no one listens to command.

[spicemoron]

This server would most likely become a lot more marine friendly if it switched to a less awful codebase which doesn't make it feel like everything's covered in molasses.

If you consider back to the first implementation Marines weren't even able to swallow pills given to them by medics which doesn't make a lot of sense, so at some point in the Person -> Container -> Pill loop there had to be a check to prevent marines from understanding what each of the pills would do. Even the hardiest among us would be hard pressed to ignore the bicardine bottle after being stomped on by a crusher, so something had to be implemented to give marines the ability to still act but do so without perfect information.

Is it elegant? Sort of, considering the system it's quite the achievement but does it make real world sense? Not really... But it does the job better than most could have expected.

Mystery pills is one of the more awful ideas this server implemented in order to give the marines a relatively small disadvantage. Yes it works to keep privates from looting medics, but most pill handling was still done by qualified personnel back before the implementation and now it's a huge pain to tell which bottle is what, especially if the rng gave you similar colors, you're relying on the actual good drugs from medbay (which come in one type of bottle) and/or you have combat text flying at 200mph.

[Snypehunter007]

This server would most likely become a lot more marine friendly if it switched to a less awful codebase . . .

We cannot pull from other code due to being closed source, everything we do either has to be written or adapted from existing code in the codebase.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

We cannot pull from other code due to being closed source, everything we do either has to be written or adapted from existing code in the codebase.

Are there anyways you can tastefully implement game mechanics that everyone can agree with?

Here's a personal question, what games do you play regularly (Or used to) and what do you like about those games?

[Snypehunter007]

Are there anyways you can tastefully implement game mechanics that everyone can agree with?

Here's a personal question, what games do you play regularly (Or used to) and what do you like about those games?

What do you mean games I play regularly? Like other SS13 servers or games in general.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

"Don't be alone. You talked about liking RP. As a marine, you never abandon your squad."


"If you are getting pounced as a marine from anything that isn't a ravager(and I'll talk about that in a moment) you were away from your squad, or the hunter who is now stunned is dead(They can't move either after a pounce). For ravagers, you'll always see them coming, and with proper positioning, you will never EVER get hit.

This idea nerfs the xenos gamestyle far too much, next."



"Or you could just... Cut them, takes one click."

I'm bad at using quotes but here's the thing about being in groups or not being alone, most marine injures are from FF and mostly all my damage comes from FF I usually have to return up from broken chests and head, and it's odd I don't even wear helmets and I get more broken chests so that itself is another story why armor is pointless due to weird RNG and other variables like seriously veryone is better off running with no armor and get a huge speed boost because regardless if you get hit by a bullet your armor does nothing unless you're B18 or Death Squad....

I digress.

The fact being in a squad and group is ludicrous is because FF will sure to kill you; don't think if you're with a good/ pro player you're safe, because you're not. There is also random bullets spread and high inaccuracy rates which will eventually end of FFing infact the accuracy balancing is so bad I dodged a mateba round point blank from a commander (I was asking for combat drugs so he decided to shoot me, I don't know why all commanders seem to be so trigger happy or what not, but wew....)

I digress.

So basically stay with your squad, miscommunicate (No one talks, because typing and fighting is hard) get FFed die, or try to seperate yourself and get pounced and die.


For weeds, tell me how many people you see cutting them? I have to usually shout "CUT WEEDS!!" because no one does it... and I can't blame them it's boring and I've been told that too, I know devs try hard to appeal to the baldies and low quality players at times but this is like 70% of marines loss, too many weeds and no good way to get rid of them.

They could give research a way to make chemicals to destroy weeds or make anti weeds, and just about other cool fun things I have lots of ideas that could work into research an alien lore but I keep forgetting this game is not about having fun...

Personally pounces are done poorly and can still be done well.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

What do you mean games I play regularly? Like other SS13 servers or games in general.

Yes, any other game besides SS13.