Debate on xeno slashing and what to do about it.

[mizolo]

Ok I may be a marine main ... but I notice something even I am VERY tempted to do at times.
This is slashing a marine that is alone, completely out-matched (like a baldie against an ancient hunter), or just in general ... fucked.

Now this is kind of the part that gets to me ...


Even though the xenos CLEARLY have possession/control of the player and are dragging them away to an egg literally like 5 meters away ... they slash them.
Why?
Because when you slash, you can break their bones, make them bleed, and damage them, putting them into crit.

However, this is what REALLY gets to my head ... the xenos proceed to slash you, putting you into crit, and then proceed to nest you ... and you can't do jack shit about your condition.
Why?
Because alien nests somehow heal your bleeding, but don't heal your body ... can anyone explain how this is cannon or legit? I'm sure there is i'm just having a hard time understanding.

So literally you can slash someone and break their bones and give them internal bleeding and surface bleeding, then nest them and heal the bleeding, and then they are stuck in pain crit until they burst ... unable to do a single shit about it.



I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one a "little" pissed off or salting over this ... I hide it ... yes I do occassionally get salty in dead chat about things.
But I want your honest feedback about this ... because i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one being kind of ... cheated, by this kind of thing.

[manezinho]

I've had this happen a few times to me as a marine. I play xeno on the side sometimes but in my honest opinion, I don't have much issue with it. Sure it's a little annoying but I don't know man, doesn't seem as bad as other things that can happen to you.

Gives five cents

[misterjoper]

Canon?You use word Canon as an Argument...Well let me tell you something,paul.No human escaped a human nest on his own in CANON.
ME HULK,ME BREAK FREE OF ALIEN NEST!ME GET neuro in THE face!RAAAAGH!,seriously you already lost and you complain that you don't get a second chance when you get captured.

[Hulkamania]

Alright here's my BS not researched at all explanation:

Nests are filled with resin, a somewhat liquid but highly viscous substance much like honey. Resin can be very malleable but also made to harden. So when an alien nests a marine, the resin fills all the cuts, hardens around broken bones, and otherwise keeps them in a very secure position. It doesn't make you FEEL any better because it wouldn't, but it does seal up the bleeding to prevent blood from gushing out of you.

Aliens are designed to breed by combat, obviously they'd have evolved some measures to make sure that their prey stays alive long enough to actually burst.

[manezinho]

Alright here's my BS not researched at all explanation:

Nests are filled with resin, a somewhat liquid but highly viscous substance much like honey. Resin can be very malleable but also made to harden. So when an alien nests a marine, the resin fills all the cuts, hardens around broken bones, and otherwise keeps them in a very secure position. It doesn't make you FEEL any better because it wouldn't, but it does seal up the bleeding to prevent blood from gushing out of you.

Aliens are designed to breed by combat, obviously they'd have evolved some measures to make sure that their prey stays alive long enough to actually burst.

Link? Just curious. Makes sense though.

[Symbiosis]

Nests do not heal you or prevent you from bleeding out. This is a rumor and not factual. Some Xenos will burn you/spit on you to put you in pain crit, but slashing will often kill the hosts.

[Carlos]

Link? Just curious. Makes sense though.

http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Xenomorph

Special attention to the Physical Abilities, Cocooning, and Chestburster sections.


As Symbiosis has said, I don't believe that nests actually prevent you from dying. If anything, it secures you with that resin so that it's a bit more difficult for you to escape from, albeit not impossible. So, then, if the entire point of the existence of xenomorphs, as obligate parasites, is to find hosts to infect and then procreate with, then why would we not expect them to slash their tallhosts to incapacitate them and make their lives a whole lot easier? If a host is seen resisting its capture, then a xenomorph should be expected to do everything it can to prevent it from resisting, up to and including putting it into critical condition. This, however, doesn't preclude that host dying from its injuries, as often happens when a xeno gets a bit too slash happy and ends up killing the host, sometimes once it's already been nested.

From a roleplay perspective, and unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as if the Queen commands, a xeno shouldn't really ever purposefully slash until its death. It should incapacitate it and then bring it back to the hive to be infected, because killing all of the hosts without allowing them to be infected is essentially sealing the entire xeno species' death and would be absolutely counterintuitive to their parasitic nature.

[misterjoper]

If they Slash a survivor 2 times..The survivor Will already get Pain critt and bleeding and death as a result of that.I am not kidding i witnessed that(it's probably also because of the Survivors spawning WOUNDED).

[Symbiosis]

http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Xenomorph

Special attention to the Physical Abilities, Cocooning, and Chestburster sections.


As Symbiosis has said, I don't believe that nests actually prevent you from dying. If anything, it secures you with that resin so that it's a bit more difficult for you to escape from, albeit not impossible. So, then, if the entire point of the existence of xenomorphs, as obligate parasites, is to find hosts to infect and then procreate with, then why would we not expect them to slash their tallhosts to incapacitate them and make their lives a whole lot easier? If a host is seen resisting its capture, then a xenomorph should be expected to do everything it can to prevent it from resisting, up to and including putting it into critical condition. This, however, doesn't preclude that host dying from its injuries, as often happens when a xeno gets a bit too slash happy and ends up killing the host, sometimes once it's already been nested.

From a roleplay perspective, and unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as if the Queen commands, a xeno shouldn't really ever purposefully slash until its death. It should incapacitate it and then bring it back to the hive to be infected, because killing all of the hosts without allowing them to be infected is essentially sealing the entire xeno species' death and would be absolutely counterintuitive to their parasitic nature.

Why should they slash? Because are times when the Hive does not have the means to both defend the Hive AND prevent hosts from escaping, thus thinning the herd is preferable to extinction.

[Carlos]

If they Slash a survivor 2 times..The survivor Will already get Pain critt and bleeding and death as a result of that.I am not kidding i witnessed that(it's probably also because of the Survivors spawning WOUNDED).

I suppose that would also depend on the xeno caste and maturity, because I can assure you, two slashes from a young runner will certainly not pain crit a tallhost nor have them bleed to death. I personally have been a survivor and managed to stave off several slashes from both a young drone and runner for atleast a minute before they critted me.

Why should they slash? Because are times when the Hive does not have the means to both defend the Hive AND prevent hosts from escaping, thus thinning the herd is preferable to extinction.

Are you asking why they should or shouldn't slash? I'm not sure what you're arguing here :/

[Tidomann]

Just to echo what has been said above-mentioned generally at that point you have lost. Being able to escape or be rescued should not be the norm and can make for memorable experiences. If we think the xeno player base by requiring large amounts of sentinels or others to guard hosts because escaping becomes to easy it would strain the player numbers.

It would cause a shift in balance that wouldn't be good overall.

If we wanted to be more lorelike- you'd be incapacitated for hours. The stench of the hive and resin would overwhelm you. The hugger would only feed you enough nutrients to be stable, yet still famished. You would awaken, muscles stiff and barely comprehensible in the nest.

But that sounds just as bad. In the end, it all comes down to a fine balance. If you want to make escaping more common, give xenos more tools to de-arm nested hosts to prevent them from just dropping an incendiary made and destroying a good portion of hosts/larvae, and make it easier to transport hosts.

[misterjoper]

Well IT was a young hunter,deffinetly not runner.And Survivor DID not have any kind of armor.As a survivor i Know that getting slashed two times from a young hunter is already a paincrit for you(you will be able to walk and atack,but if you don't do something about your wound you will go pain crit AND blled to death). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daxKyfA ... e=youtu.be Skip to 7.01 Hunter made two slashes blow aiming to my head,I had My health lowered to 50% thanks to the Helmet.But As soon As Other Hunter Atacked my hand(The wound on you hand widens with a nasty ripping noise.) I got into pain crit and Quick death.Slashing a raw Flesh is Lethal.You can make an experiment with Furhosts,slash one furhosts 2 times and other furhosts three times,and see if they will die.(something tells me that furhosts are tougher than Tallhost).

[Carlos]

Well IT was a young hunter,deffinetly not runner.And Survivor DID not have any kind of armor.As a survivor i Know that getting slashed two times from a young hunter is already a paincrit for you(you will be able to walk and atack,but if you don't do something about your wound you will go pain crit AND blled to death). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daxKyfA ... e=youtu.be Skip to 7.01 Hunter made two slashes blow aiming to my head,I had My health lowered to 50% thanks to the Helmet.But As soon As Other Hunter Atacked my hand(The wound on you hand widens with a nasty ripping noise.) I got into pain crit and Quick death.Slashing a raw Flesh is Lethal.You can make an experiment with Furhosts,slash one furhosts 2 times and other furhosts three times,and see if they will die.(something tells me that furhosts are tougher than Tallhost).

In that video, it took 7-8 slashes from a young hunter for you to become critted, and 12-13 for you to get killed. You also had wounds on your hand /AND/ head, which is significant. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue anymore, but that seems fair and square, I don't expect anyone to be able to survive that from two hunters, young or otherwise. That's not two slashes, those are 7-8, and it took a few more than that to actually kill you. In that time, while you were crit, perhaps you could have survived a bit more for an infection and it would've been wise for the hunters to maybe have dragged you to the hive, but that's not what happened anyway.

[Hulkamania]

Link? Just curious. Makes sense though.

I just came up with that off the top of my head, hence the "BS no research" bit.

Apparently the nests don't even stop bleeding anyway, so my explanation was all for nought.

[manezinho]

I just came up with that off the top of my head, hence the "BS no research" bit.

Apparently the nests don't even stop bleeding anyway, so my explanation was all for nought.

Oh I think I misread that part as "BS, little research." oops.

[misto]

if theyre dumb enough to cost themselves a live host by cutting em up then whats the big deal. theyre losing out on the deal too

[emeraldmoonx]

Seems to me if you're slashed enough to the point where you're in paincrit and then nested, that's fair game. As stated, pretty sure nests do not stop death as i've personally died many times in nests. The video clearly shows that it takes many hits to get the marine in paincrit. If you get to that point it's indeed fair game. The video shows it takes much more than a few hits from a hunter to kill someone. The person is a survivor without good armor, so he took actually LESS blows to kill. A marine would be harder to kill. Of course a stronger xeno means more damage, and that's the risk you take when you go against stronger xenos. The survivor clearly killed a hunter by himself.

Also the survivor was outnumbered 2-1 and got pounced on. It's clearly not an even fight.

Vice-versa, marine weapons and armor are much more powerful and it would have been harder for a young hunter to take he/she down.

Just my 2 cents, correct me if I'm wrong.

[nerocavalier]

This is slashing a marine that is alone, completely out-matched (like a baldie against an ancient hunter), or just in general ... fucked.

This isn't the days of old where each and every xeno was capable of infecting someone while on their own. If they just want to kill you instead dragging you to the nearest Carrier or eggs, then that's just the way it goes.

Even though the xenos CLEARLY have possession/control of the player and are dragging them away to an egg literally like 5 meters away ... they slash them.
Why?
Because when you slash, you can break their bones, make them bleed, and damage them, putting them into crit.

Or they simply just didn't see the egg until the last moment. Oops.

Because alien nests somehow heal your bleeding, but don't heal your body ... can anyone explain how this is cannon or legit? I'm sure there is i'm just having a hard time understanding.

Actually, you just stop bleeding on your own after a while. Or you die. Nests have nothing to do with it.

So literally you can slash someone and break their bones and give them internal bleeding and surface bleeding, then nest them and heal the bleeding, and then they are stuck in pain crit until they burst ... unable to do a single shit about it.

See above. Also if they have both IB and surface bleeding, they'll die before they burst even with the dead timer.

[Sailor Dave]

Generally if I'm ever slashing a host I'm dragging, it's to cripple their legs so they don't run away. I've never bothered to bring them all the way to paincrit intentionally.

[Steelpoint]

I actually find the whole concept of the 'infection' cycle of being hugged and captured to be a very bad gameplay mechanic and likely the worst part of CM as a whole.

However it is a necessary evil considering the fact we are a 'Aliens' themed game and to change the Alien lifecycle would no longer make us an Aliens game.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

Canon?You use word Canon as an Argument...Well let me tell you something,paul.No human escaped a human nest on his own in CANON.
ME HULK,ME BREAK FREE OF ALIEN NEST!ME GET neuro in THE face!RAAAAGH!,seriously you already lost and you complain that you don't get a second chance when you get captured.

Don't quote me on this but in the colonial marines game and I think in a few comics the lead escapes with no help.

[MetaphysicalBeing]

It's not really about lore it's about balancing from what I see and in my post I talk a bit about the bad mechanics and the necessary evils the devs take into consideration when making the game, and yes eggs and nesting is kinda done poorly in my opinion.

Maybe the devs can try to implement some sort of symbiotic relations with infected marine and xeno.

Example: If the host is caught in full health or high health the xeno gets a random perk maybe---> Faster plasma regen, speed boost, Extra damage, faster evolving rate. that such Or...
If the host is pain crit and dying the xeno gets a random debuff or maybe born still born---> Slower plasma regen, less damage, less HP etc.

It's a more reliable system and will lower salt levels of marines and more, and way more realistic (even though the game is illogical at some points).

Also adding a burst at will option would be nice for larva instead of randomly bursting and getting shot up by many marines.

[Nubs]

It's almost as if you're saying xenos should get in trouble for killing marines. Should they perhaps hug them to death? line up in rows so the marines can machine gun them down?

[Steelpoint]

The punishment for xenos killing a marine is one less potential larva.

[Crab_Spider]

I don't slash Marines when I'm infecting them. As a praetorian or spitter, I will spit on them to remove most means of escape. This is before infecting them.