Feedback On New Med Changes

[Kesserline]

Thanks Druglord! - random junkie in medbay (04/01/2018)

[Renomaki]

You know... I wonder if Cyro Bags might help with the Medevac Process?

I haven't gotten to playing yet, and am nervous about getting back in after hearing how fucked marines got with the nerf to medics, but knowing the marines, they always find a way to get around something in the end, good or bad.

What with how the death toll has increased lately, surely the medics found ways to ensure more marines got to medical in time. Doesn't Cyrobags help slow down the whole dying thing? Maybe the new meta will be packing assloads of them and doing more trips back and forth between the LZ and the front?

Then again... On break as of this post, haven't got to experience the hell myself.

[Surrealistik]

You know... I wonder if Cyro Bags might help with the Medevac Process?

I haven't gotten to playing yet, and am nervous about getting back in after hearing how fucked marines got with the nerf to medics, but knowing the marines, they always find a way to get around something in the end, good or bad.

What with how the death toll has increased lately, surely the medics found ways to ensure more marines got to medical in time. Doesn't Cyrobags help slow down the whole dying thing? Maybe the new meta will be packing assloads of them and doing more trips back and forth between the LZ and the front?

Then again... On break as of this post, haven't got to experience the hell myself.

The biggest issue with cryobags is that they can only handle one patient at a time and do absolutely nothing to arrest bleeding/internal bleeding for some reason; the patient won't suffer the oxy/toxin damage from blood loss, but they're fucked the moment they leave as the blood loss accumulates.

[tiredbum]

Actually, now that I think about it, this is kinda an issue for xenos. Soft critting a marine to keep em down when bringing them to the nests is basically a death sentence for any potentially larvae

[Jroinc1]

The new meta is cryobags, cryobags EVERYWHERE. (they finally managed to nerf enough stuff to make this look good... which is shitty).

Other than that, there are a lot more deaths planetside, and I'm seeing that surgery queue full pretty much after the second return.

Don't know how it works as medic or MD, cause I won't touch those with a 10 foot pole.

Why was this considered a good idea?

[Blade2000Br]

The new meta is cryobags, cryobags EVERYWHERE. (they finally managed to nerf enough stuff to make this look good... which is shitty).

Other than that, there are a lot more deaths planetside, and I'm seeing that surgery queue full pretty much after the second return.

Don't know how it works as medic or MD, cause I won't touch those with a 10 foot pole.

Why was this considered a good idea?

The abuse of Peri and QC by medics, healing everyone like crazy and making sure marines does not need to go up.

Thus giving doctors a job of "fix bones and bones and more bones."

And thats it.

[OatzAndHoes]

I feel for the medics out there, this is kind of a kick in the balls. Sort of reminds me of the engineering update a year ago in that it was a massive nerf that was implemented poorly, and without much player input. It took us months to get the new barricade system. Engineers were pretty much useless that entire time and you saw a TON of talented players stop playing engineer because of it. Thankfully it seems the devs learned from that and are monitoring feedback better.

[Vispain]

I think this update needs another update with it to help aid in the fact that surgeries and healing people is harder/more of a challenge and unique.
In my limited opinion I'd say a update adding more doctors or operation rooms on the Almayer would be a good change to aid in the problem. Perhaps some reworking of the upper level to make extra ORs on the top part of the Almayer?

[Urytion]

Okay. I've now played at every level affected by this change. Marine, Medic, Doctor, CMO.

On ship medical is fine. The changes to surgery aren't that bad. I thought I'd be getting flooded, but the IMS really does help. I was wrong there.

But where I was 100% right and totally called it is the change on the ground. Medics feel completely useless. I feel like instead of taking medicine I should just take a rig and load it full of stasis bags. Stasis bags in my webbing, rig, and bag. All I'll ever use. Because everyone needs to evac anyway. Of course, they die anyway. Less marines are getting evac'd because they die so easily now.

And as a marine, everyone is so afraid of leaving the FOB. I like to think of myself as brave really retarded and reckless, but even I'm having trouble convincing myself that it's worth it when a young runner can force me to evac and go through medical hell.

[Surrealistik]

Okay. I've now played at every level affected by this change. Marine, Medic, Doctor, CMO.

On ship medical is fine. The changes to surgery aren't that bad. I thought I'd be getting flooded, but the IMS really does help. I was wrong there.

But where I was 100% right and totally called it is the change on the ground. Medics feel completely useless. I feel like instead of taking medicine I should just take a rig and load it full of stasis bags. Stasis bags in my webbing, rig, and bag. All I'll ever use. Because everyone needs to evac anyway. Of course, they die anyway. Less marines are getting evac'd because they die so easily now.

And as a marine, everyone is so afraid of leaving the FOB. I like to think of myself as brave really retarded and reckless, but even I'm having trouble convincing myself that it's worth it when a young runner can force me to evac and go through medical hell.

One thing I've noticed from speccing a lot of games recently is that when Medbay _isn't_ overwhelmed, it's usually because people are just dying/choosing to die fighting planetside and aren't coming up.

[OatzAndHoes]

But where I was 100% right and totally called it is the change on the ground. Medics feel completely useless. I feel like instead of taking medicine I should just take a rig and load it full of stasis bags. Stasis bags in my webbing, rig, and bag. All I'll ever use. Because everyone needs to evac anyway. Of course, they die anyway. Less marines are getting evac'd because they die so easily now.

And as a marine, everyone is so afraid of leaving the FOB. I like to think of myself as brave really retarded and reckless, but even I'm having trouble convincing myself that it's worth it when a young runner can force me to evac and go through medical hell.

These are the two points I'm most worried about. Right now I really don't have much of an incentive to see a medic. Anything they can heal I can pretty much heal, and anything they can't requires an evac anyways.

[Heckenshutze]

Good thing: This update will keep getting tweaks from time to time until they finally crack the code and make it work with the game. Like they did with all the other updates.

Bad thing: Updates don't get removed, they get fixed, tweaked or changed. However, when they 'change' an update they need to add something extra to fix the intended unbalance of the game, that means, more work.

[CaptainYankee]

In a round post-update I found myself in the middle of a mound of the dead and dying. Literally multiple marines in crit stacked on top of each other. Obviously I was out of rollerbeds and stasis bags after like 5 wounded. QC/Dex+/Ina supply all out. I had to pick TWO marines to save, because even though I had spent time stabilizing multiple marines, they had no chance of making it back to the LZ on their own, let alone dragging someone who couldn't walk. Most of them had pretty bad organ damage from moving while injured. So I got to pick one to drag and one to push on a bed to the LZ. Most of the rest of these guys died from what previously was a non-mortal wound.

I'm not trying to argue that that was a good position to be in or that I didn't fuck up by trying to save more people than I could. The goal of this update is to relegate the role of medics to stabilizing wounded. My point is that with these changes stability doesn't mean shit because it's gonna take me sacrificing someone else's life to get wounded marines to the dropship, then that poor bastard has to wait for the DS to launch, and ends up in medbay at the end of a queue. Sometimes I can convince a PFC to run wounded for me so I can focus on stabilizing, but more often than not that guy ends up dead or just gets bored and wanders off.

Suggestions:

Mitigate the sheer number of evacuees requiring transit by upping squad medics to 3+ per squad (I know, might have to rejigger the prep area)

You already tweaked QC dosage which is good. Also seems like instances of IB is lowered. If so, thank you.

Consider tweaking crit thresholds. With the current changes in place I can be in "yellow" health range and fall down and just slowly die while fully conscious. I can talk, I can ask for help, if I were standing up I could treat myself, but I just get to slowly die whereas before I would eventually recover. Escaping capture by xenos is already hardcore camping simulator with instant tackles awaiting anyone dumb enough to stand up on their own. Now you can attempt escape once before you get put into crit from some runner slashing you once. This also seems to be an unintended(?) nerf to xenos, as marines rarely survive long enough to give birth if they've been captured in combat.

Put QC pills in the med vendors so we don't have to beg chem or face running out of QC after 4 injuries.

Provide an alternate method of evacuating marines. Maybe some kind of cool cart or something. I saw a suggestion for an evac beacon to coordinate with CAS.

Edit:
Sorry Surrealistitk I should have linked your Evac idea in my original post.

[Surrealistik]

Provide an alternate method of evacuating marines. Maybe some kind of cool cart or something. I saw a suggestion for an evac beacon to coordinate with CAS.

https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/1979

[jalen earl]

Silver lining for those like me learning surgery. You are definately kept busy once the first wounded start rolling in

[conthegodoffire]

Well as someone who plays doctor and medic most of the time, this kinda blows. When you are a medic people are dying faster then you can help them.
And for doctors the medbay is always full so that ain't new, but people dying all over the place is.

[Smalls]

As a medic: I am now a fucking taxi service dragging injured marines to the LZ and not much else

As a marine: I laid in medbay for 1 hour 30 minutes waiting for surgery because everyone else arriving was always more urgent than me, but I was too injured to return planetside.

Update sucks dudes

[Dumblike]

As a medic: I am now a fucking taxi service dragging injured marines to the LZ and not much else

As a marine: I laid in medbay for 1 hour 30 minutes waiting for surgery because everyone else arriving was always more urgent than me, but I was too injured to return planetside.

As a xeno: no need to do kill, just make sure something breaks and let marines walk a bit until their organs are mashed potatos.

[Urytion]

I've been playing it more on the ground, and medics aren't even trying to treat people or stabilise people. Slap them in a cryobag and run them straight back to the LZ.

I got impregnated, and before I was even conscious STRAIGHT AWAY into the cryobag and back to the LZ. We were super close, I wasn't in danger of being nested, and I could have just walked back myself. But instead, I can look forward to another hour of medical hell.

You've essentially created a system where there's no urgency. Everything can be solved by a cryobag, then it's the doctor's problem.

SAME ROUND I broke a foot (no IB) and was immediately medi-evac'd. Medic didn't even splint it, and I know he had plenty of supplies.

[Jroinc1]

The current issue I see is that medic can be FULLY replaced by a PFC with a med belt with 2 splints, 2 bruise packs, and the rest tricord injectors, a medhud, and a packful of cryobags.

Yeah, the medic-only goodies help... but not enough to be worth playing as.

[dannykz]

First the pills debuff, then the bag debuff, now this? Christ, the devs sure hate medics, don't they?

[Sulaboy]

(TIME FOR A LONG POST DIDNT REALIZE HOW LONG I WENT ON) Hey just made an account to post about this. Medical changes did make surgeries more interesting as a doctor. It is much more engaging to fix organs and work on stemming bleeding. Now I'm no expert on colonial marine balancing but the second round I played as doctor after the change we ran medbey as a well oiled machine. Josephi the cmo said over coma that surgeons were working on two patients at a time and it still wasn't enough. Medbay gets pretty clogged because it's easier to get injured than to fix it. That round was really great for medbay though I remember shouting over coms I needed a blood pack for one of the docs that didn't have an operating theater to toss me one because on of the internal bleeding patients I was working on was taking too much damage from it low blood level. That round I remember having to cut surgeries short to work on critical patients. I couldn't afford to fix any broken limbs because I risk having the internal bleeding patient dying after his medication wears off. The main thing that makes surgeries so time consuming is changing body parts. So he's got a busted lung no problem just gotta open him up then his rib cage then use the regenerative membrane then seal it back up making sure it fixes the bone break he defiantly has the cauterize the incision. Then I might have to send him out without fixing his broken leg because some other guy needs life saving treatments so I end up having the guy get a splint and some pain meds. My suggestion would be to raise the broken bone threshold a bit I'm pretty sure it is 15 so maybe up to 20. Marines should still go down from pain because we don't want them tanking everything, but the best way to fix surgery hell is to have less treatment needing injuries. all that has to be done is make the marines a bit more durable. It should either be that or make them faster to treat by cutting down the stopwatch time for surgeries. Quick clot and peri are already being tweaked to better values so that's something. Us marines should have a better way to stuff. Maybe like some special casts for medics that form around broken limbs to negate their effects. They wouldn't snap as easily as normal splints and they'd do better for pain but they'd still break if hit. Or maybe a new chemical that when injected slowly heals broken bones while resting. I always though the game could use a way to treat broken bones Ina different way, the auto docs would be good for that.

TL:DR Marines not getting injured is hard, maybe make injuries less disabling with a medics attention. That'll make it easier for doctors when they do end up being sent ship side.

[Kesserline]

The recent tweak buff/nerf on the ointments/gauze and such is interesting. More ointments/gauze/blabla in each stack is a good thing, the time to apply can be upsetting, but yet, largely possible to overcome.

Nevertheless, we still have the issue of having more cramped medbay in med-highpop rounds. Doctors are human-players, they can make mistakes, they can go SSD, they can be fed up with surgeries and decide to RP instead of making surgeries (which are most of the time RP-less).

More marine-players decide to die groundside instead of getting evacced. Even with a simple lost-arm, I saw a marine deciding to just go gyro-shotty and going for a last stand (he knew that the medbay was cramped as other marines reported 45 minutes of redeployment time).

Two possibilities :
- Increasing healing capacity of corporal medics (Example : Peridaxon as a temporary fix AND a low-efficiency healing process. One pill to heal only 5 to 10 organ damage maximum. Which means 2 pills for a single hard wounded, 1 pill for a broken rib shit, surgeries will still be viable for heavy organ damage).
PRO : Reducing amount of wounded marines sent shipside. Giving back a sense of usefulness to corporal medics (some corpo mains are deserting the role due to the recent update).
CONS : Against the last medical update direction.


- Decreasing hard-injuries occurence on marines (Fractures/Organ damages ==> IB occurence was already reduced). Either occurence, either treeshold level raised.
PRO : Reducing amount of wounded marines sent shipside (until they are really in critical). Game will be less unforgivable towards FF and mistakes for marines.
CONS : Xenos will have more tanky players facing them, especially when facing some robust marines who are already dangerous. Such possibility goes against the direction of "Perfect Imbalance" design of the game.

*Good idea Sulaboy for the hard-injuries occurence*

[Arbs]

Can we please move the CMO office upstairs and turn the current one into a cryo bay instead? Half of the people in medbay are SSD marines most of the time.

[Kesserline]

Or maybe add another OR. But you don't have enough people to run them all.

Maybe add an autodoc, like in WO.