Im interested in recording a Round

[Shuffl3]

Like the title says, Im interested in recording a round. Not trying to get a twitch stream going or develop a youtube fanbase. I'm more interesting in capturing a complete view of an entire round because I think it could reveal interesting insights for something like an after-action report and it would be a crucial first step for a variety of digital media projects that wouldn't be simple to attempt with only a single perspective. Today, I got tacit approval from the IT staff at my university to use their resources for this project. So, If the CM team doesn't object, Id like to attempt to capture a defense of the USS Almayer sometime during lowpop this week as a trial with the goal of scaling up to a full round over the next few months.

My big ask here is that the admins allow me limited permission to multikey in from pre-approved accounts all from the same IP during scheduled windows of time.

The idea being that a number of ghosts positioned across the map while zoomed out could cover a large area and then be stitched together in post to give a complete view of everything that's happened. Then myself and other community members could develop projects from the resulting footage.

While we could accomplish the same result by coordinating a team of volunteers, I think managing this from a central location would minimize sync issues as well as mitigate potential problems with scheduling, boredom, and changing the nature of the rounds by having players sit out when they would normally be playing.

Thoughts, concerns, shitposts?

[Rikman]

HOLY SHIT YES THAT WOULD BE AWESOME

[Philby0]

I think trying to cover the whole map isn't a good idea. The server literally couldn't handle all the connections. Real shit though would be to have ~10 people recording their POV of the same round. Then select 3 or 4 in which interesting things happen and edit it. Even better if the different protagonists end up surviving together or something.

Also that could be redone until a round is satisfying enough to take the time to derush and edit.

[Shuffl3]

I think trying to cover the whole map isn't a good idea. The server literally couldn't handle all the connections. Real shit though would be to have ~10 people recording their POV of the same round. Then select 3 or 4 in which interesting things happen and edit it. Even better if the different protagonists end up surviving together or something.

Also that could be redone until a round is satisfying enough to take the time to derush and edit.

Its certainly an idea I'd considered. Id just like to minimize the number of people that would have to coordinate. Like, im sure most of you arent total sperglords, but projects seem to get exponentially harder to manage as more people get involved. Some rough math shows that youd need ~30 ghosts to just blanket the entire ship with minimal overlap. Im thinking it wouldnt be overly stressful during the lowpops when the server gets into the neighborhood of around 100 players.

There are some other approaches I could think of but they would need dev support and Id hate put more demands on their limited time.

[Philby0]

But, even if you got permission to multikey for this, which you probably won't

How would you run so many BYOND at the same time on the same computer. Not to mention the recording software, which is intensive, recording every single BYOND at the same time ?

Unless Elon Musk made your PC I don't know how that'd go, or how many FPS each ghost would be able to give you...

[Shuffl3]

But, even if you got permission to multikey for this, which you probably won't

How would you run so many BYOND at the same time on the same computer. Not to mention the recording software, which is intensive, recording every single BYOND at the same time ?

Unless Elon Musk made your PC I don't know how that'd go, or how many FPS each ghost would be able to give you...

Im mostly prepared on my end. There are a couple hundred bricks I could use scattered across campus and the university sits on fiber trunk. The computer lab I got approval for has 70 dell workstations in it. My challenge is just getting everything imaged and scripted then getting the bulk output processed.

[Philby0]

That seems very complicated compared to having a bunch of guys record the round at the same time. Gotta remember too that for such a long story, it's never good to have more than a few point of views, otherwise it gets boring fast. Also, having a ghost on the middle of the screen and having all radios in the box would make the editing much more complicated.

I know I'd be up to record myself as CMP, and we surely can get at least one command main, a doc, a couple squaddies, etc...

[Shuffl3]

That seems very complicated compared to having a bunch of guys record the round at the same time. Gotta remember too that for such a long story, it's never good to have more than a few point of views, otherwise it gets boring fast. Also, having a ghost on the middle of the screen and having all radios in the box would make the editing much more complicated.

I know I'd be up to record myself as CMP, and we surely can get at least one command main, a doc, a couple squaddies, etc...

Lol. Then do it man. Get it organized. Lay down some recording standards and get a schedule sorted out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that approach and you could get some good results from it. Hit me up if you need another person to record or some help in post.

But Im not trying to tell a story, my goal is more to document and produce a bigger picture than whats normally available. I think I can overcome the technical problems with automation and relatively simple post-producation workflows. To me, there is no reason not to try what should be possible.

[oprayx73]

I can't support multikeying or metagaming. But if you could somehow have someone or yourself observing your gameplay as a ghost with the zoom feature to its max so you can see a large part of the map around you, and splice footage of it as a "Sourrounding Area Cam" so you can see the moments before a xeno comes up and you frag it, or the moments where a xeno hides somewhere to flank you, where a marine lays down a mine that stuns you, where you can see someone elses epic fights in the background or something. Again, not sure how that'd work. Maybe get a staff member to do the observing and recording of that so it's legit and trusted.

[Philby0]

Ooh yeah I mistook what you're going for. I was just throwing ideas in really, I'm gonna need more free time before I can start doing something like that.

That's a great idea and I don't think I've ever seen that done on SS13, though yeah you've got the means to do it. Most difficult part is gonna be getting approval to multikey, but if you can talk it out privately with staff and they accept it could be insane. What would it look like in the end, like a big overview of the Almayer with all the movement around ? Or split screen with chosen places ?

I don't think metagaming would be an issue here, as all chars could be ghosting, I don't know what range of tools staff has to check properly though.

[Shuffl3]

Ooh yeah I mistook what you're going for. I was just throwing ideas in really, I'm gonna need more free time before I can start doing something like that.

That's a great idea and I don't think I've ever seen that done on SS13, though yeah you've got the means to do it. Most difficult part is gonna be getting approval to multikey, but if you can talk it out privately with staff and they accept it could be insane. What would it look like in the end, like a big overview of the Almayer with all the movement around ? Or split screen with chosen places ?

I was hoping that this would be the right venue to post this proposal, but I may have to ping somebody with a fancy badge. My title may of been a bit vague to get the right attention.

But yeah, the rough output should just look like a big overview with things happening in it. I think there are a lot of different directions to go from there. Like taking it more abstract and doing a kinda icon/vector based minimap or going in the opposite direction and developing a narrative by following a few characters. You could even use it to demo different lighting systems or add animations to things in ways that byond couldn't handle. Perhaps transpose it into some completely different art style. Or even something as simple as redubbing the text into much higher RP. I see a lot of possibilities.

I don't think metagaming would be an issue here, as all chars could be ghosting, I don't know what range of tools staff has to check properly though.

From what I understand it would be readily obvious if a couple dozen accounts jumped on from the same IP. If Apops experimental banning system didnt intercept the swarm, Ive no doubt a furious storm of bwoinks would descend and drive me into some catatonic state from the overwhelming conditioning weve all received from that sound. Nothing I've described should be violating the spirit of the rules, but it would certainly set off the tools they use to detect people attempting to circumvent them.

But if you could somehow have someone or yourself observing your gameplay as a ghost with the zoom feature to its max so you can see a large part of the map around you, and splice footage of it as a "Sourrounding Area Cam" so you can see the moments before a xeno comes up and you frag it, or the moments where a xeno hides somewhere to flank you, where a marine lays down a mine that stuns you, where you can see someone elses epic fights in the background or something. Again, not sure how that'd work. Maybe get a staff member to do the observing and recording of that so it's legit and trusted.

Thatd be blatantly against the rules if it were done live. But it would be a pretty interesting way to enhance a playback. I dont see why it wouldn't be a problem if you cleared it with an admin first, but given the specific wording of the examples in the multikey rule I think theyd be wary of something like this.

[oprayx73]

Thatd be blatantly against the rules if it were done live. But it would be a pretty interesting way to enhance a playback. I dont see why it wouldn't be a problem if you cleared it with an admin first, but given the specific wording of the examples in the multikey rule I think theyd be wary of something like this.

Basically, what you said. The only way you'd get a special zoomed out cam view is if an admin did it for you.

[Vispain]

If you want to do this I recommend perhaps getting three or four people to just record along with you then take sections and edit them together how you see fit.

That seems the best way to do it.

To cover all your bases inform the admins you'd like to record and ask permission etcetra etcetra.

[Emeraldblood]

Nobel goal, though I don't know if I'd even want to allow this. While the rules aren't around to prevent fun, the last thing I want to deal with is this snowballing into some ban case or people starting to say, "Well why did X get to go around the rules but not me." Nothing personal, but it seems more trouble than it's worth.

[Shuffl3]

Nobel goal, though I don't know if I'd even want to allow this. While the rules aren't around to prevent fun, the last thing I want to deal with is this snowballing into some ban case or people starting to say, "Well why did X get to go around the rules but not me." Nothing personal, but it seems more trouble than it's worth.

That's fair, and I certainly cant fault you for being damage-averse. But if we were debating the exceptionalism of the process I'm proposing then I would have to argue that It only stands out in its scale.

It seems like there is already a system in place that handles exceptions for multikeying. And to me, the precedent for successfully appealing a multikey ban appears to lie in determining the defendants intent to abuse as well as the context of their situation. Both of which I like to think I've addressed here. So this whole setup would just be a kind of false positive in a way. Theoretically, I think there's a good chance I would of been given a pass (contingent with a promise to never try it again alongside a stern talking to/probation/tempban) in a hypothetical scenario where I had gotten flagged for attempting something like this without coordinating. I'd be more than happy to address any concerns further, in any reasonable way that would satisfy the CM team.

I mean, whatever you guys decide is final. But Id be lettin myself down If i didn't try to convince you to enable this project.

[Kerek]

We could always just ban the accounts after hes done.

[notasyndie]

Nobel goal, though I don't know if I'd even want to allow this. While the rules aren't around to prevent fun, the last thing I want to deal with is this snowballing into some ban case or people starting to say, "Well why did X get to go around the rules but not me." Nothing personal, but it seems more trouble than it's worth.

If a player could actually come up with a convincing argument that since you let this guy multikey for a project and therefore said player should be able to multikey I would be amazed.

[ColdSuit]

I am cool with this idea. It seems reasonable and it seems like you are prepared on your end. I wouldn't be against it if the staff looked into it. May I ask how you use this data after the round? What would be done with the footage?

[Shuffl3]

I am cool with this idea. It seems reasonable and it seems like you are prepared on your end. I wouldn't be against it if the staff looked into it. May I ask how you use this data after the round? What would be done with the footage?

In my mind, I feel like the ethical thing to do would be to release it to the community with minimal alterations. Each extra connection to the server consumes some amount of the resources available to the community and contributes to degrading the quality of their experience in the form of lag/distracted staff/etc. So I think it would be selfish to keep whatever is produced from that to myself. However due to certain technical constraints I'll most likely have to do some post-production, such as stitching and light compression, before making it available. Depending on the final file size Ill either run up a torrent or provide a direct download link from a cloud storage system like MEGA or Dropbox.

And as I mentioned in a previous post, I think the footage could enable a lot of projects. Not just for entertainment, I think it could provide a great visualization aid for understanding the game. Personally, Id like to tinker around with a kind of after action report. If its well received, it could be used to justify a gitlab suggestion towards logging changes in order to develop an automation chain that could use those logs to automagically create something similar after each round but in a way that would be much less resource intensive.

Hell, someone could even swap out all the xenomorph sprites for ugandan knuckles. Just endless possibilities.

[Tharinoma]

I think it's a great idea and if it was my call (it's not), I'd be fine with allowing you whatever temporary one-round-only exceptional permission you'd need.
I'll have to check, but I think some staff can upgrade your view range to a custom number. Big enough that you'd only need one ghost to observe the entire battlefield.

This is how I would run the show :
-4 keys maximum, better if it's just two.
-You wouln't be allowed to play during the round you are recording
-I strongly suggest not doing this from a public IP
-You would have to give the list of all the byond keys and IPs you'd use to connect to the server beforehand
-You wouldn't be allowed to connect with any of the additional Byond keys once the recording is done
-No breaking any copyright or other laws ever
-Don't blame staff if you end up caught in a complicated ban of some sort.

If you have your things figured out, a date/time for your recording, a list of keys/IP ready, I suggest sending a forum PM to apophis containing all the information he needs, he's the person you have to convince.

[Emeraldblood]

Let me state that for this to be deemed acceptable at all, it's going to require Feweh/Apop to state that you can do it. If staff say they support it, that doesn't mean it's good enough.

[Shuffl3]

This is how I would run the show :
-4 keys maximum, better if it's just two.
-You wouln't be allowed to play during the round you are recording
-I strongly suggest not doing this from a public IP
-You would have to give the list of all the byond keys and IPs you'd use to connect to the server beforehand
-You wouldn't be allowed to connect with any of the additional Byond keys once the recording is done
-No breaking any copyright or other laws ever
-Don't blame staff if you end up caught in a complicated ban of some sort.

This is pretty close to what I was thinking.
The IP thing may end up stonewalling me but I may be able to proxy or something similar back to my place. It makes sense though, I'd hate to potentially poison the universities IP range.
Copywrite issues kinda worry me. I cant say I'm to familiar with CMs relationship to Disneys new IP so this is something Im going to have to research.
I was also thinking that I'd have to attempt this a few times so I could try some different methods to bring the swarm size down with automation, but the custom view range is really interesting.

I'll have to check, but I think some staff can upgrade your view range to a custom number. Big enough that you'd only need one ghost to observe the entire battlefield.

If you could get me some details on this or direct me towards a dev that I could contact It would be really helpful. As Emerald and you have pointed out, it looks like Im going to have to go to the tippy-top to try and pull this off and I'm somewhat intimidated at the idea of proposing something half-baked to either Apop or Feweh. I know we have a few 4k editing bays here that I might be able to stretch out to 8k if I cannibalized some extra monitors in. Might not even have to multikey at all if it was limited to one z-level and there isnt any interest in the more artistic/creative possibilities that would require the full tile resolution.

So I think I'm going to hold off on anything until I can get more information and sort some stuff out on my end. Focusing on a specific end goal rather than just producing an asset seems like It should be a lot less messy. A more modest project like this that would require a less risky proposition could be good step in building some trust that could eventually move towards a more complicated collaboration like my original proposal.