Update Discussion thread (14FEB18)

[RobBrown4PM]

I like the change with cargo, also, I have warmed up to the coms change. At first I was highly against it.

[Surrealistik]

Having now played several round as Beano, I can definitely confirm that their losses are largely due to suicidal/overaggressive Queens and T3s who would rather crash head on into a murderball than wear it down with attrition.

[SolarMacharius]

I have also tried playing xeno and what keeps leading to losses is population bleed off. The hive generally hits a maximum number of around 33 xenos each round, but after first contact with the marines that number rapidly dwindles down to around 20 to 17 xenos. This is because none of the runners or hunters ever come back to help defend or flank the marines, they usually try to "harass' by assaulting the FOB or some other outpost far away from the front lines and getting slaughtered.

In fact, the xenos are less communicative and coordinated than the marines are, despite having a communications network that is superior to the marine one. T3's rarely talk to each other, especially ravagers. You get lots of silent evolving, lots of xenos running off without telling anyone, and you never know where these xenos are until the death message flashes up. When xenos communicate, you can hold off a much larger marine force fairly easily. An example was on big red where a preatorian (me), a boiler, two spitters and a sentinel held off thirty marines at the lambda choke point for over half an hour by ourselves mostly. This is because we were constantly communicating with each other and the hive.

Its basically a combination of xenos who are silent and disobey the queens orders to defend the hive or help attack the frontlines, which combined with losing older t3's does very serious damage to the xenos.

[Surrealistik]

I have also tried playing xeno and what keeps leading to losses is population bleed off. The hive generally hits a maximum number of around 33 xenos each round, but after first contact with the marines that number rapidly dwindles down to around 20 to 17 xenos. This is because none of the runners or hunters ever come back to help defend or flank the marines, they usually try to "harass' by assaulting the FOB or some other outpost far away from the front lines and getting slaughtered.

In fact, the xenos are less communicative and coordinated than the marines are, despite having a communications network that is superior to the marine one. T3's rarely talk to each other, especially ravagers. You get lots of silent evolving, lots of xenos running off without telling anyone, and you never know where these xenos are until the death message flashes up. When xenos communicate, you can hold off a much larger marine force fairly easily. An example was on big red where a preatorian (me), a boiler, two spitters and a sentinel held off thirty marines at the lambda choke point for over half an hour by ourselves mostly. This is because we were constantly communicating with each other and the hive.

Its basically a combination of xenos who are silent and disobey the queens orders to defend the hive or help attack the frontlines, which combined with losing older t3's does very serious damage to the xenos.

Suicidal Queens and T3s are definitely the bigger factor; you can lose a couple of runners or hunters and still be in relatively good shape; you cannot lose several key T3s and/or a Queen and expect to bounce back.

[Toroic]

Suicidal Queens and T3s are definitely the bigger factor; you can lose a couple of runners or hunters and still be in relatively good shape; you cannot lose several key T3s and/or a Queen and expect to bounce back.

Fundamental issue there being that queen is the entirety of command for xeno as well as by far the most powerful combat caste. Huge amount of power and responsibility in one player’s hands.

I wouldn’t be surprised if most xeno wins are relying on queens carrying the team, and most xeno losses being due to queens going too aggressive early and dying.

[Gnorse]

Yeah, which is why I'm asking to revert the Recent Queen buffs to stop her from being a Swiss knife and actually just spread out some buffs on the different castes

[Sulaboy]

Yeah, which is why I'm asking to revert the Recent Queen buffs to stop her from being a Swiss knife and actually just spread out some buffs on the different castes

The queen ought to be defended in a hive assault, she should have her sister like praetorians and sentinels there to help protect her, so it makes more sense for her to sit in ovi for a lot of the match. She honestly shouldn't have the charge. I think it's a bad idea to have the queen function as a siege breaker, if assaulting the marines barricade fortresses is a problem buff boilers or crushers against these (Hopefully crushers more than boilers seeing that they need a buff). Right now s robust queen should be able to destroy any large marine force if they are in any form of tight quarters. I think this all could be fixed by removing the queen's charge and buffing crushers health pool along with some increased damage to barricades, they also need some other way to retreat after breaking some cades without dying. I think crushers should be really tough to put down, even with fire or Ap, but they should be near useless unsupported.

Yeah one of the greatest thing to take from this is the queen shouldn't have such a robust loadout, her strength should come from the hive she controls instead of her abilities. The ovi update was great, and I also agree with giving the queen explosive stun resistance, but right now the hive doesn't consider evolving crushers because the queen can do their job.

[SolarMacharius]

Queen's should also use devolve more and maybe not go free evolve all the time. Devolve was put in for the purpose of of taking away the role from a disobedient or incompetent xeno and giving it to a different person who could do the job better, or if the person evolved wrong. I have yet to see a queen use it. Right now it seems the queen gets ordered around more by her subordinates then her telling the hive what to do. While player interaction isn't something that can be updated, devolve was added to the game and I encourage any one who plays queen to use it more often so we don't get silly things like three ravagers and one boiler at T3, or silent T3's. Tell your higher castes to stay in regular constant or you will replace them.

[Toroic]

The queen ought to be defended in a hive assault, she should have her sister like praetorians and sentinels there to help protect her, so it makes more sense for her to sit in ovi for a lot of the match. She honestly shouldn't have the charge. I think it's a bad idea to have the queen function as a siege breaker, if assaulting the marines barricade fortresses is a problem buff boilers or crushers against these (Hopefully crushers more than boilers seeing that they need a buff). Right now s robust queen should be able to destroy any large marine force if they are in any form of tight quarters. I think this all could be fixed by removing the queen's charge and buffing crushers health pool along with some increased damage to barricades, they also need some other way to retreat after breaking some cades without dying. I think crushers should be really tough to put down, even with fire or Ap, but they should be near useless unsupported.

Yeah one of the greatest thing to take from this is the queen shouldn't have such a robust loadout, her strength should come from the hive she controls instead of her abilities. The ovi update was great, and I also agree with giving the queen explosive stun resistance, but right now the hive doesn't consider evolving crushers because the queen can do their job.

I can assure you that the issue crushers have is *NOT* lack of hp. It's the fact that they're too slow and have shitty damage, unreliable tackles, and stomp sucks. Increasing their speed would do far more for the caste than more durability.

[Surrealistik]

No better summary of my reaction to the latest Beano buffs/Marines nerfs; also a plug for Joyner Lucas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjKbw1Cqpt0

Like I said, I think this is the best fix for Crushers: https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/2666

I think they _should_ be somewhat slow and plodding outside of their charge, but they should also be absolute fucking bullies, shoving marines around, using forced movement to disrupt/open up an offensive/save beanos/move marines into bad positions.

Again though the main issue and win rate annihilator facing Beanos is absolutely bad queens followed by bad T3s; I wouldn't say the queen 'carries' in most cases, but there's definitely too much centralization of power, and no good way at the moment to screen bad queens.

[HKO20006]

March 17 2018
Spookydonut updated:
Improved the corrupted xeno event.
Fixed pred traps not dropping on xeno gib.
Fixed label on bicard pill bottles.
Fixed synths being able to heal themselves with nanopaste.
Fixed issues with new dropship chairs and buckling/building nests.
Stopped synths being husked.
Fixed synthetic surgery flinching.

Now XenoHUD shows if a xeno is emitting pheromone.

Improved the corrupted xeno event. Corrupted Xeno are now green, Hive status is fixed.

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

March 17 2018
Spookydonut updated:
Improved the corrupted xeno event.
Fixed pred traps not dropping on xeno gib.
Fixed label on bicard pill bottles.
Fixed synths being able to heal themselves with nanopaste.
Fixed issues with new dropship chairs and buckling/building nests.
Stopped synths being husked.
Fixed synthetic surgery flinching.

Now XenoHUD shows if a xeno is emitting pheromone.

the balance is ruined, nanopaste was crucial to marine victories

[spookydonut]

I have some fixes in mind for combat queens

[James_ii]

O yeah. Xeno nerf incoming.

[spookydonut]

More like carrot and stick choice for queens.

[Sambalu]

Now that I've played a few rounds with the cargo change, it honestly isn't as bad as I thought.
Marines are still kicking ass pretty regularily.

[HKO20006]

March 19 2018
Spookydonut updated:
Changed how larva get spawned both normally and via latejoins.
Larva that burst from a nested host without a player controlling them burrow underground for later. Latejoin larva add to this tally of 'stored' larva.
These 'stored' larva will spawn at the Queen when she is ovipositor and there is a player with xeno preference turned on.
This is should encourage the Queen to either stay in ovipositor or regularly grow one to replenish losses and allow existing xenomorphs to evolve.
If you attempt to join as xeno when none are available then your xeno preference is turned on for you, but not from the lobby latejoin screen.

[Cry of Wolves]

March 19 2018
Spookydonut updated:
Changed how larva get spawned both normally and via latejoins.
Larva that burst from a nested host without a player controlling them burrow underground for later. Latejoin larva add to this tally of 'stored' larva.
These 'stored' larva will spawn at the Queen when she is ovipositor and there is a player with xeno preference turned on.
This is should encourage the Queen to either stay in ovipositor or regularly grow one to replenish losses and allow existing xenomorphs to evolve.
If you attempt to join as xeno when none are available then your xeno preference is turned on for you, but not from the lobby latejoin screen.

I like that alot. Encourages the Queen to sit down on her throne instead being a battle-queen.

[Butlerblock]

Make queen spawn in the game already Ovi'd and I'd be fine with this change. As it is I hate this change with a burning passion, especially as a xeno main. The thing I care about every single round is getting a round start, or equivalent to a round start xeno in order to make the first T2 wave. Since the round start larva count is currently basically 0, I have to rely on spamming the join hive button in order to get the fastest "late" join larva so that I can evolve before the T2 gets perma locked. Currently, this change makes it so that no late join larva can happen until the queen ovi's. Since the queen spawns already non-ovi'd and it takes around 20 seconds for the queen to ovi, not to mention the average of about another 20 seconds before most queen ovi, thats about 40 seconds without any late join larva, which mean's unless the lord and savior has blessed me with a million to one RNG, I won't get round start larva, or an equivalent to round start larva(Aka "late" join larva very soon after the round starts)

Update is currently 0/10, revert it, make getting actual round start larva possible again, or make queen spawn in ovi'd.

[Blade2000Br]

Make queen spawn in the game already Ovi'd and I'd be fine with this change. As it is I hate this change with a burning passion, especially as a xeno main. The thing I care about every single round is getting a round start, or equivalent to a round start xeno in order to make the first T2 wave. Since the round start larva count is currently basically 0, I have to rely on spamming the join hive button in order to get the fastest "late" join larva so that I can evolve before the T2 gets perma locked. Currently, this change makes it so that no late join larva can happen until the queen ovi's. Since the queen spawns already non-ovi'd and it takes around 20 seconds for the queen to ovi, not to mention the average of about another 20 seconds before most queen ovi, thats about 40 seconds without any late join larva, which mean's unless the lord and savior has blessed me with a million to one RNG, I won't get round start larva, or an equivalent to round start larva(Aka "late" join larva very soon after the round starts)

Update is currently 0/10, revert it, make getting actual round start larva possible again, or make queen spawn in ovi'd.

if more people join xeno, more slots for T2 and T3 opens.

[thatguyfromlife]

Make queen spawn in the game already Ovi'd and I'd be fine with this change. As it is I hate this change with a burning passion, especially as a xeno main. The thing I care about every single round is getting a round start, or equivalent to a round start xeno in order to make the first T2 wave. Since the round start larva count is currently basically 0, I have to rely on spamming the join hive button in order to get the fastest "late" join larva so that I can evolve before the T2 gets perma locked. Currently, this change makes it so that no late join larva can happen until the queen ovi's. Since the queen spawns already non-ovi'd and it takes around 20 seconds for the queen to ovi, not to mention the average of about another 20 seconds before most queen ovi, thats about 40 seconds without any late join larva, which mean's unless the lord and savior has blessed me with a million to one RNG, I won't get round start larva, or an equivalent to round start larva(Aka "late" join larva very soon after the round starts)

Update is currently 0/10, revert it, make getting actual round start larva possible again, or make queen spawn in ovi'd.

So you don't like the update because you can't get your T2 slot? That's the biggest problem you have with it?

Sounds like a fine update if so.

[Heckenshutze]

Update is currently 0/10, revert it.

You must be new here.

[spookydonut]

To be clear, the amount of late join larva is unchanged, but now they only actually spawn when the Queen is in ovipositor

[HKO20006]

There aren't any available xenomorphs. However your xenomorph preference has been toggled on and you might be spawned as a larva, turn this off in Prefernces->Toggle SpecialRole Candidacy.
^ Pretty good.

[HKO20006]

March 19 2018
RavingManiac updated:
Whistles added. One in each SL vendor, as well as one in the CIC and one in the CO's quarters. Use these for coordination, or for telling your marines to listen up