Update Discussion thread (14FEB18)

[CaptainYankee]

#1: Centralizing the meta and marine/xeno gameplay even *more* around medics, and significantly compounds the already vital need to protect/assassinate them; any squad without a medic is basically FUBAR.

I've already witnessed xenos discussing how they need to find and kill medics as soon as the marines land now. It was already pretty annoying getting targeted.

[Lucyz]

From the old update discussion thread:




Exactly.

This update (the auto/mini-injector changes, non-Medical personnel can't benefit from the MedHUD, as well as Marine Law changes utterly prohibiting drug mixes) largely accomplishes two things:

#1: Centralizing the meta and marine/xeno gameplay even *more* around medics, and significantly compounds the already vital need to protect/assassinate them; any squad without a medic is basically FUBAR.
#2: Significantly increasing the already considerable burden and workload of said medics (while the number of medic slots have remained constant despite these changes) as utility PFCs can no longer really assist effectively, and drug mixes are gone, or at least significantly less likely to see use due to the Marine Law changes.

Second, I'm not sure I agree with this being balance related. Two weapon PFCs were a competitive and viable alternative to more utility based PFCs; in no universe was the utility PFC a hands down better choice than the dual weapon PFC. As a result of these changes two weapon PFCs are now clearly superior with the exception of maybe the occasional flare mule due to necessity.

I think Medic slots should be upped to 3 per squad with these changes, especially during high pop.

[Surrealistik]

I've already witnessed xenos discussing how they need to find and kill medics as soon as the marines land now. It was already pretty annoying getting targeted.

I can't remember a meta prediction I've made that didn't ultimately pan out.

[NicoDeimos]

Despite the issues with the new character sprites, my characters have all come out looking relatively normal. I did notice some rather skeletal looking characters coming out of cryo however. Both in tone and shape.

I've also said my peace on making marines literally retarded enough to stick themselves with a needle simply for trying to help others. It's dumb, unfun RNG and needlessly condescending to supposedly stop powergaming. I don't agree that trying to be helpful to other people should be considered powergaming. Consider that the front line is usually clustered as is, especially on higher populations, so a lot of PFCs would be at the back with nothing but maybe guard duty to do. Pushing them all to the front would only increase risk of FFing. I'm going to ride the slippery slope and ask what's next, removing the ability to use a wrench to deconstruct or construct basic structures from all but engineering-skilled roles? Such things would also remove roleplaying potential as standards are reduced to knuckle dragging rooty-tooty-point-and-shooty Team Deathmatch slots. Keeping in mind that PFC RP opportunities are limited and underutilized as is.

The pill bottle update makes sense as it prevents one person from helping themselves by using more advanced medicine than they would get out of the standard vendor or first-aid boxes on the walls. Plus the flavor text about the child lock cap is amusing. The tram injectors and tricord injectors are equipment available in the standard vendor and I feel should not have such a penalty applied to them.

I would like to propose that the RNG for sticking oneself if attempting to use an autoinjector on another character could perhaps be changed to take time to inject another person with if you are not a medical role. Similar to the previous update that did so with other medical items.

[Sulaboy]

I would like to propose that the RNG for sticking oneself if attempting to use an autoinjector on another character could perhaps be changed to take time to inject another person with if you are not a medical role. Similar to the previous update that did so with other medical items.

Yeah this dumb. Why put a hurdle into helping a teammate. It seems dumb that the auto injector would be so small that you could inject yourself accidentally.

[ColdSuit]

I completely understand why there have been all these changes recently due to the massively skewed victory ratios in the previous months, but I believe this is overdoing it. I also understand that changes will be made to balance it out later. But here are my gripes:
1. Groundside medical needs to be fixed. Eight medics for what is regularly 100-150 marines is too little. To nerf the living hell out of marines being able to fix their boo-boos and help their buddies is not only an overreaction, but an insult to those who do not powergame but want to help and provide valuable RP. We arent stupid enough to not be able to open a pill bottle or inject ourselves on accident.
2. The Queen should not be a Swiss Army Xeno. Personally, I would specialize in the extreme siegebreaker role that she has always had (screech, charge). It is hard enough to kill a Queen, let alone a Swiss Army Xeno.
3. Larva spawning is now a massive crutch for xenos, much like for marines but much worse. When a RPG spec dies, thats it. No more RPGs. Same goes for every other specialized marine role. If a crusher dies, one will quickly replace it (abeit at young rank). A good xeno is literally worth its weight in marines and even a bad one is still worth several marines. I havent been seeing a much infecting as before (which again provides RP and interesting opportunities), just slashing to death.

I could go on and on about other things (sentry, DS locking, marine law), but I wont. I am trying to be respectful here. But this chain of updates does push the balance a little too far into the xenos favor (I also understand the desired 70:30 ratio).

[XSlayer300]

I would think that the solution to the (bad) character sprites is to retain its main sprite, while changing the color back to its original, so that player's can set the skin colors by numbers. Though I'm not sure about the Western color sprites and so on, since it cannot be replicated using that setting.

[Jroinc1]

This update did it.

I'm out. I don't dislike you guys, but I'm no longer willing to play on this server. You've sucked all the fun out of every role I played.

[Cobraman202]

I don't particularly like this update, like many others. There are some nice things, such as the new sprites, but I haven't found any redeeming value in the game play changes.

[Simo94]

I called it, I knew the purpose of nerfing pseudo-medics is to add more real medics.

[LocalizedDownpour]

Four medics a round on high pop will be a god send. More engineers is nice too, but I think the medic thing is going to reduce alot of stress the medics currently have.

[misto]

i know that reducing reliance on screech was always only a theoretical side benefit rather than a major end goal of the big queen updates, but it doesnt quite seem to be working out. even if she ditches the ovi soon after the marines land, the benefits of her helping annihilate a squad or two early on before they have time to dig in or blob together seem to generally outweigh the lost evo gain time, and of course theres the endgame of almayer fun times where she's generally pivotal in mopping up remaining resistance. this also synergizes excellently with free larva supply making eggs and capturing less important. yes i know the free larva have been toned down on but it still bears repeating in how it links into the queen, as free larva of any kind makes exiting ovi mode to lend more screech that much more viable as a mainline strategy rather than a desperation move.

oh yeah, and while i cant speak much to medic number increases as i avoid medical roles, the engi numbers increases probably wont add up to much unless you intend to review their initial building material supply, the cost of additional materials at req, the cost of sentries, etc. as those are routinely the real bottleneck to engi performance.

[Ghodere]

An interesting note is that, since evo time was decoupled from upgrades, the queen discarding her ovi actually still lets xenos upgrade, just not evolve.

[spheretech]

Posting this here cause other thread was locked.

Surprisingly, this is actually the most annoying update of all the recent ridiculous ones.
So after you get out of binoculars or a scope you have a cooldown of about 3 seconds before being able to zoom again.
You can keep clicking the binoculars but nothing will happen, and scopes will still make the clicking noise but won't zoom you. It's infuriating an extremely annoying. It's just a quality of life downgrade.
Getting pushed every 2 seconds by baldies means you can barely position yourself properly as a sniper or laser user, because by the time you battle the 3 second cooldown, your target is long gone.
Completely unnecessary and makes no sense to add this.

Regular sniper spec has like a 3 second wield delay AS IS, and I played one just before the bino update. It was unbearable and I would genuinely use a m41 with a scope over the spc sniper. With this zoom delay ontop of the general firerate of snipers and wield delay, playing with a scope is a thing I don't wanna do anymore...

[RobBrown4PM]

Posting this here cause other thread was locked.

Surprisingly, this is actually the most annoying update of all the recent ridiculous ones.
So after you get out of binoculars or a scope you have a cooldown of about 3 seconds before being able to zoom again.
You can keep clicking the binoculars but nothing will happen, and scopes will still make the clicking noise but won't zoom you. It's infuriating an extremely annoying. It's just a quality of life downgrade.
Getting pushed every 2 seconds by baldies means you can barely position yourself properly as a sniper or laser user, because by the time you battle the 3 second cooldown, your target is long gone.
Completely unnecessary and makes no sense to add this.

Regular sniper spec has like a 3 second wield delay AS IS, and I played one just before the bino update. It was unbearable and I would genuinely use a m41 with a scope over the spc sniper. With this zoom delay ontop of the general firerate of snipers and wield delay, playing with a scope is a thing I don't wanna do anymore...

Yeah, this particular piece seems completely needless

[Bronimin]

It was because people were spamming scope in to get 360 degree vision which apparently wasn't intended

[WinterClould]

Totally think that the new setup menu looks and feels great.

However.. the new character sprites look bad. BUT! We've been shown in some other places that they're being worked on and will be fixed soonish hopefully. (Game ain't been the same since I lost my bedhead 3, looking like a skellington now is pretty feels bad man on top of that as well)

Changes to the first aid pouch are mostly good. I like the trade off of carrying two small injectors per pouch while still being able to carry my bandages and ointment. However "accidentally" stabbing yourself while trying to inject and help someone else is just plain stupid and I don't get it at all. I understood the need for the "Child Safety locks" but jesus fuck I don't like the thought of accidentally stabbing yourself, I don't even know how that would work or how you could actually fuck that up. We should go with what that person said, add a timer to the act of injecting someone else as PFC instead of an incredibly annoying RNG chance to fuck up.

Extra medics and engis seems great though! As well as the bonus pred even if someone said they're usually only supposed to hunt in trio's.

Other then that, Queen 2 stronk with her Swiss army knife of ass kicking and the only reason benos capture anyone is to further add coal to a steam roll or desperately try and make a come back.

All in all, smh now isn't exactly the best time to be a marine player. We just came off the high of assblasting everything when our click speed was nuts as fuck. Now that's fixed and we've been given a few toys but the xenos also got some huge buffs that it feels like the ovi update never happened what with the sheer about of frontline screech queens and the mass swarm of xenos but minimal captures. /shrug

[misto]

another day another dozen ssd larva slaughtered when marines breach an underplayered hive. it wasnt even lowpop morning times, basically midday midpop, triple digits playercount, 120 or so, still a half-empty xeno team. ya gotta spice up the xeno gameplay options to get people curious, get people interested, not just try to brute force it with extra larva.

yeah and the dumb ass changes to the autoinjectors and child safety lock crap seem to be a solution to a problem that wasnt really there?

[Heckenshutze]

another day another dozen ssd larva slaughtered when marines breach an underplayered hive. it wasnt even lowpop morning times, basically midday midpop, triple digits playercount, 120 or so, still a half-empty xeno team. ya gotta spice up the xeno gameplay options to get people curious, get people interested, not just try to brute force it with extra larva.

yeah and the dumb ass changes to the autoinjectors and child safety lock crap seem to be a solution to a problem that wasnt really there?

Being able to name xenos with short, 4-5 letter names was something that was discussed long time ago and it was going to get implemented at some point, but I don't know what happened; pretty sure that would make players go xeno more often... All what they want is some customization for their xeno scum

[Lumi Pharon]

It was because people were spamming scope in to get 360 degree vision which apparently wasn't intended

what do you mean '360 vision' like actually bugging the game, or just literally looking in multiple direction quickly scoping in and out (which would seem to be ther point of binos/scout....)
Also couldn't they just have like 1 sec CD or something? 3sec is actually really long.

[Omicega]

Four medics a round on high pop will be a god send. More engineers is nice too, but I think the medic thing is going to reduce alot of stress the medics currently have.

Don't kid yourself. The primary "healing bottleneck" for the marines at the minute is the rate at which casualties can be evacced. Doubling the number of medics means double the strain on the already overworked CASEVAC, which will now be even more clogged with lightly wounded/one fracture people than it was before.

The average marine player should expect to spend just as long bleeding away in paincrit as they did before the update. More medics does nothing to alleviate anything beyond lots and lots of lightly wounded marines, and it really only takes 3 or so competent medics to motor their way through any amount of lightly wounded casualties and get them standing again in minutes or less.

[LocalizedDownpour]

Don't kid yourself. The primary "healing bottleneck" for the marines at the minute is the rate at which casualties can be evacced. Doubling the number of medics means double the strain on the already overworked CASEVAC, which will now be even more clogged with lightly wounded/one fracture people than it was before.

The average marine player should expect to spend just as long bleeding away in paincrit as they did before the update. More medics does nothing to alleviate anything beyond lots and lots of lightly wounded marines, and it really only takes 3 or so competent medics to motor their way through any amount of lightly wounded casualties and get them standing again in minutes or less.

How would it not? You have less lightly wounded marines, you rarely EVER see marines with one break leaving the front they just splint and move unless you have something critical like IB or organ damage, or you're so hurt you cannot stand...which typically leads to IB or organ damage marines stay, and now with twice the healing potential in each squad that's going to mean less time marines spend injured. You seem you have a very weak understanding of when marines actually want to leave the front line.

[completelynewguy]

This update did it.

I'm out. I don't dislike you guys, but I'm no longer willing to play on this server. You've sucked all the fun out of every role I played.

"lol okay fuck off" - Feweh

[Mann handle]

Don't kid yourself. The primary "healing bottleneck" for the marines at the minute is the rate at which casualties can be evacced. Doubling the number of medics means double the strain on the already overworked CASEVAC, which will now be even more clogged with lightly wounded/one fracture people than it was before.

The average marine player should expect to spend just as long bleeding away in paincrit as they did before the update. More medics does nothing to alleviate anything beyond lots and lots of lightly wounded marines, and it really only takes 3 or so competent medics to motor their way through any amount of lightly wounded casualties and get them standing again in minutes or less.

This, while the medic numbers will help against the meta targeting xenos do, the downside is that evacs will get clogged very quickly. You'd still need to rely on the support PFCs who are willing to haul the overflow of crit marines to the landing zone to get them home and that is a job not many are willing to do.

[Omicega]

How would it not? You have less lightly wounded marines, you rarely EVER see marines with one break leaving the front they just splint and move unless you have something critical like IB or organ damage, or you're so hurt you cannot stand...which typically leads to IB or organ damage marines stay, and now with twice the healing potential in each squad that's going to mean less time marines spend injured. You seem you have a very weak understanding of when marines actually want to leave the front line.

It doesn't matter what a marine wants when a baldie shoves them in a stasis bag for immediate evac. I spend a good chunk of my longer medic rounds simply going around scanning stasis bags, especially those on stretchers, and the majority of patients who wind up stuffed inside don't need one.

No offense, but I think after a solid few months of playing 90% medic, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about. You could have 80 medics groundside and it won't change the simple fact that you can only evac two patients per CASEVAC flight. Broken bones, IB, and organ damage will remain as debilitating to deal with as ever - in fact, the problem will be worse for reasons I already outlined.