Update Discussion thread (14FEB18)

[Sambalu]

Marines already couldn't use the medHud to assign triage cards or read reports. The only thing it did for them was finding out who was defibable or not. Or on occasion, knowing wether that CLF/UPP guy was just playing dead. POs at least should be able to tell wether or not the people on board are actually dying without having to scan them all individually.

[kooarbiter]

I think it would be nice if the devs could add reasoning for stuff like this so we can better understand why, I think it would be a benefit to everyone, heck you could even make a sticky dedicated to this, I really don't want our Dev team to be valve lite

[WinterClould]

sigh
Another nerf to something that wasn't really powergamey, just something that gave PFC's a path in life that wasn't rooty tooty shooty the lizards...

I hope the devs have something in store for us that will give PFC's the variety of options in life back. Because as is they can't do shit other then be cannon fodder, and that's not fun for me and a lot of other people anymore. Well, not as fun. Getting less and less fun every week. Trying to RP helps, kinda, but as we're striped of more and more things we can do as Privates I feel like we're choking out the options we have to roleplay with even.

Are the devs just making a TDM server? Or have they just forgot we're not trying to be a TDM server? Do they think we want one? Because I sure as hell don't want just a TDM server, and I don't see anyone else who does.

To bad its all pointless to say. Since any work like revert or rollback are no no words and no matter how lame an updated is it won't be changed.

God I hope Yankee is right that there's something that's right around the corner that will make me feel silly for saying all this. But at this point, after so many changes like this. I'm jaded as fuck now.

[Gnorse]

I may sound like a salty little marine main, but i really don't like the direction the server's headed.
I've stuck with CM from early 2016, But I might just have to leave by the end of 2018 ...

[Mann handle]

>Disabled medhud for anyone not trained to at least medic level.

Please stop ...

Christ this even effects squad leaders as well? If so, I think I've lost partial effectiveness from the fact that I can't tell how healthy my squad is from a glance and who I should direct first aid to as a priority.

So now the PFC can't help a wounded marine at all without all the guess work and time spent applying plasters? Even the duty of dragging a marine to a medic is harder due to the fact that you will most likely drag someone who is not defibable wasting time for those who are rather close to perma death. Heck this even removes the support play style I played when the medical changes first started to come out. The question is this, why? What is the purpose of this change? You really can't abuse the ability of knowing whether someone can be revived or not nor should you punish people who actively take time out of their round to pull someone to a medic, I've seen some people do that for entire rounds before. In fact, I rarely see people use med huds as anything other than a medic or pilot, MPs alone tend to nag people for wearing one outside of SL, PO and medical roles.

I'm thinking that at this point, the devs are just throwing shit at a wall just hoping to see what sticks because right now playing anything lower than a corporal means you're just cannon fodder in a TDM that will do nothing but shoot and make unga memes at Req. There's so little to do as a PFC right now as is and stripping play styles and RP moments is not a good thing to do. Unless there is something in the works however, but we'll never actually know that until it hits us from nowhere.

[Ranged66]

Seriously undo this shitty change. Nobody asked for this, it doesn't "balance" anything, it just makes it more tedious for everyone involved.

[Chaznoodles]

MedHUD disabling crippled certain playstyles. I can no longer assist medics as a PFC, not keep track of my squad health as a SL. Silly changes that nobody at any point asked for, instead of dealing with the actual problems facing the game.

[Celestial_Moon]

I literally can't see how you can abuse the ability to see how stable someone is or if I can sill save their ass.

[thatguyfromlife]

I'm getting deja vu to a few months ago when marines got some nerf that I can't even remember. Everyone went on how this was the end of CM and how the game was ruined. Then the xenos got nerfed and everyone was so happy, telling xenos to get gud and stop being salty. Now we're back to marines getting nerfed, and everyone freaks out.

Is this a strange update that makes little sense, sure. But most of these complaints are how it'll be harder for marines to keep people alive. Marines are suppose to get their asses kicked, its suppose to be hard as a marine. And its not that hard to check if someones alive, just examine them, if they aren't breathing they're dead. Marines should be trying to recover bodies anyway, if only for the gear on them. PFC's can still assist medics, just by dragging anyone they see, not just people in need of a defib. It's harder, not impossible.

Got a bit rant like, oof.

[Sulaboy]

I like the new changes in the way that they help define roles. We got a rework to the examin system, which made it easier to treat fallen comrades as a marine. I'm fine with the medhud being a medical only item if they give a rework on knowing if someone can be defibbed. There should be a better way of knowing if someone is conscious or not. One of the most frustrating things is dragging back a body to a medic and finding they can't be defibbed. This might all be negligible because of the buff to be number of medics though. I think the medic increase was meant to promote medics moving with their squad who can deal with wounded and put holocards on the dead so marines can know they're dead.

[Torrentia]

The MedHUD nerf is a QoL nerf, plain and simple. Is it the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of gameplay diversity as a marine? No. Is it annoying and seemingly necessary? Yes! The biggest loss is not being able to tell if someone is defibbable or not as a non-medic. It's the difference between wasting your time dragging a husked body across the ship, screaming for a doctor, or focusing your attention on assisting marines that can actually be saved. There simply isn't enough medical staff to make this change worth it.

[CaptainYankee]

I like the new changes in the way that they help define roles.

What this change does is remove game-play, both in terms of what you can do as a PFC, and how it will result in more players being removed from the round. I can't see how I'll play medic any differently, PFCs will just be more oblivious to what everyone else is doing, and SLs can no longer estimate their squad's strength.

This might all be negligible because of the buff to be number of medics though. I think the medic increase was meant to promote medics moving with their squad who can deal with wounded and put holocards on the dead so marines can know they're dead.

When QC/Peri was changed people were freaking out for sure. This lead to certain medics recruiting PFCs to evac marines because we didn't have time to do it ourselves. Somehow, this is considered power-gaming. With the increase in number of medics, I haven't been overwhelmed with wounded very often at all, in fact, I find myself without patients to treat fairly often. Part of the problem is the upswing in corpse dragging/hiding we've seen since February (Or whenever it was that xeno pounce bug got fixed/bodyblocking fixed/ movespeed etc. hit). I simply don't have patients anymore since all wounded marines are drug off to bleed out in a corner. With the loss of the medhud, now I won't have as many PFCs dragging defibable bodies back to me either. We're going to see a lot of husked bodies being moved around uselessly, and a lot of salt in dchat over defibbable marines being left to time out. My point is, the increase in medic slots eased the QC/Peri change, the medevac system even more so, but now we're rapidly approaching combat engineer territory, where you just wait around for your fortifications to get attacked.

I'd like to reiterate, that this isn't a salt post, it's a disappointed one. I have faith that the devs will come through and replace the gameplay that's been removed here.

[Surrealistik]

In a nutshell the MedHUD nerf is a bad, needless change that pointlessly restricts PFCs, increases the stress on Medics, and makes prioritising and retrieving casualties effectively more problematic; a solution to a problem that never was.


As to people who think MedHUD use is powergaming, let's go and look up the definition, per the wiki:

Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie.

Is using a MedHUD as a PFC to gauge the health and status of your squad-mates (and indeed survivors) during an investigation/rescue scenario turned firefight unreasonable? Does doing so somehow show a lack of regard for storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie? I don't see it at all. Taking a MedHUD is about as powergamey as taking attachments, grenades and AP rounds from Req if not less so (since these missions are initially investigation/rescue operations).

[oprayx73]

Kind of agree on the medhud update with surrealistik here, however for different reasons. like 9 times out of 10 it's simply a really good player minmaxing.

However, it still directly fits into the tone of the game; starting with a search and rescue with possibly harmed colonists.

[HKO20006]

April 7 2018
phil235 updated:
Some gun changes:
Most guns can now be fired either one-handed or two-handed (exceptions for things like rocket launcher, flamethrower, snipers)
Guns behave differently when fired one-handed and two-handed. Attachments do not grant the same effects for both firing stances. e.g. a scope isn't going to help your accuracy if you are not aiming down sight.
New gun attachments are introduced: underbarrel laser sight, mini scope, stock for smg, angled grip. And the gyro attachment now helps one-handed accuracy instead of making a gun one-handed.
Quickfire attachment no longer fits on the M41A or M39.
Firing a gun while having another gun in your other hand makes you fire both guns, with poor accuracy.

[thatguyfromlife]

New attachments, cool. And new firing system, I can dig it.

[Sulaboy]

► Show Spoiler

What this change does is remove game-play, both in terms of what you can do as a PFC, and how it will result in more players being removed from the round. I can't see how I'll play medic any differently, PFCs will just be more oblivious to what everyone else is doing, and SLs can no longer estimate their squad's strength.



When QC/Peri was changed people were freaking out for sure. This lead to certain medics recruiting PFCs to evac marines because we didn't have time to do it ourselves. Somehow, this is considered power-gaming. With the increase in number of medics, I haven't been overwhelmed with wounded very often at all, in fact, I find myself without patients to treat fairly often. Part of the problem is the upswing in corpse dragging/hiding we've seen since February (Or whenever it was that xeno pounce bug got fixed/bodyblocking fixed/ movespeed etc. hit). I simply don't have patients anymore since all wounded marines are drug off to bleed out in a corner. With the loss of the medhud, now I won't have as many PFCs dragging defibable bodies back to me either. We're going to see a lot of husked bodies being moved around uselessly, and a lot of salt in dchat over defibbable marines being left to time out. My point is, the increase in medic slots eased the QC/Peri change, the medevac system even more so, but now we're rapidly approaching combat engineer territory, where you just wait around for your fortifications to get attacked.

I'd like to reiterate, that this isn't a salt post, it's a disappointed one. I have faith that the devs will come through and replace the gameplay that's been removed here.

The buff to medics had left them very patient starved at times, this is good because it allows them to move around with the squad. The medic can then help ID dead bodies and get them up. The reason I like these defined roles is because it rewards working together.

I don't think standards are effected at all, at least I'm not. If anything this nerfs Rambos. If someone sees you get killed and they can recover your body 90% of the time you will get defibbed. If you run off into the dark, and don't talk to anyone or share your location then die, someone stumbling across your body would have no idea how long you've been like that.

While this change is kinda unnecessary, I think it just removed a crutch for people who don't want to play with a squad. The devs probably have something in the works to balance this, but I feel like people are over reacting to this.

These nerfs to PFC medics are actually good for RP, I've had to work with a battered group of soldiers to drag our wounded across the map to get them on the dropship.

Marines should be working together and talking. I mean it sucks to have your body left behind, but if this encourages communication within the squad, then this update is very welcome. I mean is it crazy for me to think that the counter to this loss is to talk to each other. Call in your location or stick with your squad, these are good ways to stay alive. SOs might help squaddies locate dead marines because that's something overwatch can do. This makes me remember the general coms nerf. I supported the change to general coms because it encouraged communication within the squad, but that change recieved a lot of flak. I feel like people have changed their mind about that coms change now that it had been here for a few months, and I feel the same thing will happen with this change.


And for the gun firing changes, sweet they finally tackled the dual gyro rifle problem. I always felt that was silly, also dual wielding just got that much cooler.

[Surrealistik]

Ouch, no more QFA at all; if you can't use it on any of the staple weapons, what can you use it with?

I would have preferred nerfs or buffs to the shittier alternatives instead, of which there are many.

[phil235]

Ouch, no more QFA at all; if you can't use it on any of the staple weapons, what can you use it with?

I would have preferred nerfs or buffs to the shittier alternatives instead, of which there are many.

Mostly handguns. The idea was to remove the attachment from guns which already started with a high fire rate. The issue with QF was the scalability of the bonus depending on the initial fire rate.

[Mann handle]

Dual shotguns are now a thing with this gun update, now you can be a 24 pounder cannon firing grape shot into the backs of marines, or decapitating two marines with slugs.

Gonna slip an edit in:

Right now Mini scopes don't work. Also the speed in which req can deck marines out is gonna drop due to the massive list we have and the tiny sprites I'm trying to click on.

[phil235]

We're aware of the issue with tiny attachment sprites in general.

Not sure what you're saying about mini scope, it works fine. You have to wield the gun to use a scope now.

[Mann handle]

We're aware of the issue with tiny attachment sprites in general.

Not sure what you're saying about mini scope, it works fine. You have to wield the gun to use a scope now.

As in it's not showing up in the vendors.

[Surrealistik]

Mostly handguns. The idea was to remove the attachment from guns which already started with a high fire rate. The issue with QF was the scalability of the bonus depending on the initial fire rate.

Yeah, but surely it was possible to balance the QFA, by say, having its bonus/fire rate increase be inversely proportional to the existing fire rate? Or scaling up its penalties with the weapon's base fire rate?

[zoboomafoo]

IMO the qf on the m41 and m39 could dish out too much pain too fast. People discovered this, used it a ton, so it goes.

Also, I think the point removal of most people using med huds is to cripple the marines and specific playstyles, I don't think they intended the change to do anything otherwise.

[Gnorse]

QFA was balanced out by having a very low number of it in attachment vendors. Not making it fit at all was a bad solution, to be honest. You could've changed the QFA's bonus so that the faster the original RoF is, the smaller the effect.