Lore Argument

[MarcoTruesilver]

I see this thrown around a lot;

"X isn't in the lore so why is it a thing? blah, blah, blah."

So allow me to explain why most of the things in the lore are ignored. Let's start out with perhaps the most blatantly obvious one;

#1 - They ain't Xenomorphs - Simple as that, they ain't what you think they are it shouldn't take much to realise why but if your struggling it's a magical little thing called Copyright. So before you blindly claim they should act EXACTLY like they do in the alien universe don't because, they simply have a similar life-cycle.

#2 - Aliens - So assuming you ignoring the above let's continue on with a small dicussion about the aliens in their own universe. Firstly let me start by saying that they are a non-threat to the existence of mankind. Now no doubt some of you disagree with me and will start throwing out examples from the movies, books, and even games. Please allow me to point out the following are common themes;

A) Aliens are allowed/often helped to run rampant by Weyland-Yuanti.
B) Stupidity. This is more often than not the prime cause of aliens either managing to establish a nest in the first place or escaping, and it's not even the good kind of stupidity it's more often than not the kind that is done to make sure a movie, game, book, whatever works.
C) Aliens are weak and helpless critters. Technically speaking if Weyland-Yuantin or the CM cared enough they could wipe out a hive simply through a war of attrition;

Step 1: Orbital Bombardment (if able/permitted).
Step 2: Deploy Androids
Step 3: Repeat step 2 until you win.

It's actually hilarious when you think about it how easy it'd be for humanity to wipe 'em out without losing a single man. Now imagen if every person on the server spawned in with an immunity to viruses, how long do you think the aliums will last? No fun eh?

#3 - Fun > Lore - Ultimately this is what it comes down to, as stated above if we used the lore to it's fullest extent aliens wouldn't be a threat to anybody and the game would be boring, the lore isn't fun and thus tends to be ignore in many aspects. However I will say as the game stands right now I think the roles are kinda backwards;

Aliens tend to win in the long run but lose (albeit rarely) in the short run. Honestly I feel that aliens should be powerful in the early game but then get gradually get weaker in comparison to the marines. I mean logically speaking the marines arrive having no idea what has happened, as the game progresses any sensible commander would start calling in the bigger guns and arm his/her men with better equipment to combat the threat.

So before you make this argument please consider what you are actually saying is you want a game where aliens get destroyed in the first 3-5 minutes of a round. It'll be fun for marines after 3-4 rounds then it'll just be boring.

[LordeKilly]

Who are you and why are you murdering our forum of arguments!

[MarcoTruesilver]

Who are you and why are you murdering our forum of arguments!

I am but a humble owl, HOOT!

[TopHatPenguin]

I don't see this a lot but the server lore is mixed with SS13 so this entails Centcom hiring the Colonial marines as mercenaries (This happened because Cm had run out of money being funded by WU who had recently gone bankrupt so they were looking for work) to investigate the nostromos as centcom has no available units or nearby ships to do it themselves etc. That is my interpretation anyway.

[crazyh206]

meh i only care about being paid no matter what side i'm on in which as a marine i want to be paid in cash or mechs and as a alien i want to be paid in human slaves or just some lower caste members to do my bidding

[Allan1234]

regardless of everything you said here about copyright we are working under Fan fiction copyright using nothing from games, books or movies aside from lore and the general concept. we are fully aware of copyright claims of the aliens universe and are operating 100% with in our rights of the fair use clause.

more so on the note of contradicting lore, We attempt use the majority of the lore but we will twist it in order to maintain a fun and playable enviroment, as you said in real lore they would siege the planet from orbit then lunch androids so we just ignore those parts (yes we do chary pick parts of the lore) well keeping any lore and concepts that fit into our design plan as the development team for the server.

more so they ARE xenomorphs and we ARE operating inside the aliens universe (mostly. it's more of a mix) and as the server develops we will be working more so towards the aliens universe and out of SS13 universe, before you make assumptions try to get your facts straight first.

hope this clears up any questions or misunderstandings you had.

[apophis775]

Who is OP, and why does he have forum admin permissions?

Anyway, your not on my staff, so please don't try to speak on behalf of ANY of our development, or as a representative of CM at all (unless you plan to apply to staff):

1. Colonial Marines
2. My development plans
3. My inclusion/exclusion of lore.

Any lore inclusion/exclusion is done after I take into account the overall effect it will have, and I try to include as MUCH lore as possible, while keeping the game interesting.

As I tell EVERYONE who complains, I take a LOT of time when I make big decisions, and I'm always trying to work on what should/shouldn't be included and how adjustments and changes affect lore overall.

[Felkvir]

Apop, this is part of what used to be Jaggers old (?) staff. Fairly sure i recognize him from there.


Anyways, just to butcher your argument a bit further..



1. They ARE the xenomorphs and have always been regarded/reffered to as them on this server. Copyright has nothing to say here. It's unlikely that anybody would take the time to point that out to them, much less get their interest for this server nor SS13 alone. There are original concepts in SS13, but xenos are not one of them.

2. Aliens, in the sense of their nature are not a direct threat to humanity no. They are endoparasites ... But they are also designed as one of the most adaptable creatures, very concerned about their own survival and i would argue that they often succeed in this much more than any human. A fully grown xenomorph is a direct threat to a human/humans in a space station or otherwise suitable hunting grounds, and they will not hesitate to kill/harvest them in order to propogate/protect themselves.

A) and B), i will quote an elder predator here: "The humans are still children, creatures of desire and hubris." Oh yeah, and the fact that WY always trying to stake it's claim on anything that can put them further up in the industry.

C) Yes, these 'weak' creatures rip off human heads, lift 335 lbs with their tails alone and can slam a metal airlock down if they headbutt it enough. And that's just the drones and warriors. They have intelligence enough to survive alone, without a queen outnumbered and outmatched for longer periods of time and yes ... They can plan but their intelligence is compared to a chimpanzee which means they won't see the consequences.

As to the war of attrition:

If they are already doing this then they might aswell nuke their planet and all the resources/facilities. If it's a single/few xenomorphs you'll be extremely lucky if they hit at all. If it's a massive hive then chances are some of them are going to survive and repopulate. WY cares too much to ever let this happen though ... They would be waving goodbye to many many profitable possibilities. Like i said, they'd rather stake a claim on something this big. Which they can since they have the resources.

The problem here is that in all the most cases, the humans have no idea what they're dealing with. It's the element of an unknown creature, prepared to survive by any means which is supposed to bring the tension and terror we usually have during these battles.

Also yes, it would be no fun ... For the humans i mean. Because xenomorphs are parasites like i said, not a virus. :-p

3. Mix of suitable lore/fun > unsuitable lore.

If we actually followed the lore fully, a drone alone could kill a marine in one hit. And a single praetorian could take on almost the entire sulaco.. So yeah.

The problem with the 'bigger guns' part is that the colonial marines in this instance are just a force under contract with NT/WY to investigate a problem. They are expendable by many means, the commander is just there to make sure they do their mission. Of course there could be variations to this scenario, but there needs to be admin interference then..

That reminds me, we really need some new gamemodes than infestation.

[MrJJJ]

That reminds me, we really need some new gamemodes than infestation.

Rebel could be a gamemode, will be much easier, PMC same...*Looks at some guy* No dammit, we not gonna have a round of 3 elite russian guy's who have giant guns and armor and try to shot everyone to death

[MrGabol100]

Apop, this is part of what used to be Jaggers old (?) staff. Fairly sure i recognize him from there.


Anyways, just to butcher your argument a bit further..



1. They ARE the xenomorphs and have always been regarded/reffered to as them on this server. Copyright has nothing to say here. It's unlikely that anybody would take the time to point that out to them, much less get their interest for this server nor SS13 alone. There are original concepts in SS13, but xenos are not one of them.

2. Aliens, in the sense of their nature are not a direct threat to humanity no. They are endoparasites ... But they are also designed as one of the most adaptable creatures, very concerned about their own survival and i would argue that they often succeed in this much more than any human. A fully grown xenomorph is a direct threat to a human/humans in a space station or otherwise suitable hunting grounds, and they will not hesitate to kill/harvest them in order to propogate/protect themselves.

A) and B), i will quote an elder predator here: "The humans are still children, creatures of desire and hubris." Oh yeah, and the fact that WY always trying to stake it's claim on anything that can put them further up in the industry.

C) Yes, these 'weak' creatures rip off human heads, lift 335 lbs with their tails alone and can slam a metal airlock down if they headbutt it enough. And that's just the drones and warriors. They have intelligence enough to survive alone, without a queen outnumbered and outmatched for longer periods of time and yes ... They can plan but their intelligence is compared to a chimpanzee which means they won't see the consequences.

As to the war of attrition:

If they are already doing this then they might aswell nuke their planet and all the resources/facilities. If it's a single/few xenomorphs you'll be extremely lucky if they hit at all. If it's a massive hive then chances are some of them are going to survive and repopulate. WY cares too much to ever let this happen though ... They would be waving goodbye to many many profitable possibilities. Like i said, they'd rather stake a claim on something this big. Which they can since they have the resources.

The problem here is that in all the most cases, the humans have no idea what they're dealing with. It's the element of an unknown creature, prepared to survive by any means which is supposed to bring the tension and terror we usually have during these battles.

Also yes, it would be no fun ... For the humans i mean. Because xenomorphs are parasites like i said, not a virus. :-p

3. Mix of suitable lore/fun > unsuitable lore.

If we actually followed the lore fully, a drone alone could kill a marine in one hit. And a single praetorian could take on almost the entire sulaco.. So yeah.

The problem with the 'bigger guns' part is that the colonial marines in this instance are just a force under contract with NT/WY to investigate a problem. They are expendable by many means, the commander is just there to make sure they do their mission. Of course there could be variations to this scenario, but there needs to be admin interference then..

That reminds me, we really need some new gamemodes than infestation.

If we followed the lore, a Drone would die to one M4A3 Shot to the head, the acid would crash the nostromo hull, the M4A1s would have 99 bullets each one enough to headshot a runner, the aliens would explode in vacuum due to their exo not holding the pressure, one marine with a flamie would win the entire round via burning all the aliens and weeds, and well, all aliens without including Tier 3 would all die to less than 6 shots from the 99 Bullet M4A1.

Then, aliens would kill marines in one unique slash move, and marines wouldn't be able to take facehuggers off unless you are an OP ripley from the sacred shit of Alien Resurrection.

Seriously, if we followed the lore it'd be pretty fucked up since all is 1 hit to kill.

[MarcoTruesilver]

Xenomorph virus thing is solely because the coding has the parasite as a virus. Thusly making CM immune to it would lead to them in effect being androids of the Aliens Universe.

@Apophis775

Interesting theory, at what point did I claim to be a admin on your team or claim to be acting on your behalf?

If you must know, I am a Gamemaster of New Eden and have been for one and half years now.

[TopHatPenguin]

No offence but why are you in colonial marines then if your a new Eden staff member shouldn't it really be kept to ya know colonial marines staff to deal with the Cm Forums, I could maybe understand if you were a forum administrator....

[MarcoTruesilver]

No offence but why are you in colonial marines then if your a new Eden staff member shouldn't it really be kept to ya know colonial marines staff to deal with the Cm Forums, I could maybe understand if you were a forum administrator....

Because I play on the CM server, this thread was neither advertised or modified in any way as to impersonate a CM admin. And yes I am also a forum admin and have been for quite sometime now.

It is a General Discussion forum aka anyone can post here. If I was claiming to be a CM admin it would be a different issue entirely, but I am not.

[TopHatPenguin]

yeah I just woke up and have no idea what I did last night so I apologise for that.. still trying to remember....

[apophis775]

Your demeanour and the way you posted in the OP, made it seem like you were trying to talk as a CM admin/Dev, and since your title it just "owl". It wasn't just me that thought you were doing it, because I got messages over Skype asking WTF or similar things, linked to this thread.

Especially trying to explain decisions that were made by me and the dev team, but giving the wrong reasons.

I wouldn't have said anything, if I didn't get questions asking "Who the new CM admin" was.

[MarcoTruesilver]

Your demeanour and the way you posted in the OP, made it seem like you were trying to talk as a CM admin/Dev, and since your title it just "owl". It wasn't just me that thought you were doing it, because I got messages over Skype asking WTF or similar things, linked to this thread.

Especially trying to explain decisions that were made by me and the dev team, but giving the wrong reasons.

I wouldn't have said anything, if I didn't get questions asking "Who the new CM admin" was.

Ah now it makes sense, fair enough.

[apophis775]

Coincidentally, I'm still getting messages about it.