Should disrespect be a crime?

[Adolf_S]

I don't know about you, but it makes me mad when i call the commander an idiot and get put into a cell for 10 minutes. I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on disrespect being a crime and how command staff can abuse it to brig people they don't like.

[Philby0]

It should, if it weren't there'd be way, way too much abuse. It can be abused by command too, but if you straight up insult them you're giving them the stick to beat you with. Find clever euphemisms instead to get the point across.

[Dolth]

Insubordination AND disrespect shouldn't stack.
But individually, yeah. They are a thing.

[Blade2000Br]

Insubordination AND disrespect shouldn't stack.
But individually, yeah. They are a thing.

You must be new here.

Being serious now, yeah. They should. No one of sane mind disrespect his commanding officer in front of his faces. Here on my military ya would get beaten, thrown into a jail and put to do 3 weeks of hard work just for calling ya officer a dingus.

[Sir Lordington]

Yes, it should. This is an MRP server. Insulting your superiors is a very serious issue in the military, and enforcing respect and discipline OOCly is a hassle and has quite a few disadvantages.

[Dolth]

That wasn't a question. You do whatever you want on your server, but. It should NOT stack. Punish people doing disrespect higher if you want but regarding what you seems to blindly call 'serious issue' while you walk to work with a jean every DOES NOT ryhm with insubordination, AT ALL.

[Loco52]

You are a marine. An specially trained soldier to fight for your country against space threats, and you supposedly have been educated about how to talk to your peers and superiors.

We all know the CM playerbase is probably 20 years old on the outside and 8 on the inside but IG you are a marine who has to respect chain of command and his fellows. Thats just like the military works irl.

So yeah, disrespect has to be punished.

[Skimmy2]

Please look over to the mute bald pfc to your left, and they will show you how not to open your mouth to the CO in one easy step.

[Sir Lordington]

I don't get your point. Disrespect and insubordination are different issues, so of course they should stack as you can easily commit one without committing the other, so if you commit both, you get the punisment for both.

Not getting brigged is easy. Just follow the law and don't mouth off to superiors.

[solidfury7]

For the average marine, it's not an issue.

If you're one of the idiots who like to sprout out every insult under the sun to everyone and everything. Of course it will suck.

If you get arrested, it's on you.

[RobBrown4PM]

I don't know about you, but it makes me mad when i call the commander an idiot and get put into a cell for 10 minutes. I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on disrespect being a crime and how command staff can abuse it to brig people they don't like.

Maybe people wouldn't get brigged if they didn't call their CO a 'Insert word of choice here'

[Blade2000Br]

That wasn't a question. You do whatever you want on your server, but. It should NOT stack. Punish people doing disrespect higher if you want but regarding what you seems to blindly call 'serious issue' while you walk to work with a jean every DOES NOT ryhm with insubordination, AT ALL.

Call your officer an dingus = disrespect
Disobey his orders to push = insubordination

Disobey his orders and call him a dingus = Disrespect + insubordination

They are different charges, therefore they stack on top of each other. Just like every other law break you would do at sametime.

[Dolth]

Hold your horses you madmen. I never said disrespecting shouldn't be a thing neither that insulting shouldn't be punished (For those baldo-dumbo who thought so above).
The point I hold isn't about NOT being punished if you insult someone OF FUCKING COURSE you should get punished.

But if you insult and ONLY insult a superior you should be charged for DISRESPECT, not INSUBORDINATION. Otherwise you can just REMOVE disrespect from being a thing and just charge people with INSUBORDINATION.
New marine law brought DISRESPECT up because it is DIFFERENT than INSUBORDINATION. Obviously.

EDIT : Cromwell, I said that because I saw people being brigged 15 minutes for just insulting. Charged for both as a mixup. "Duh, insult is disrespect and insubordination, duh duh duh."
Yeah, those PM.

[Zalgo]

Well yeah, because you're not being insubordinate. I don't think anyone here has said otherwise. But if you insult them while also not doing as you're told, then you're gonna get both. If you're insulting your superior during an idling moment that's one thing, but if you're insulting them after they've given you an order, then you're pretty much deciding to take the time to call them names instead of following orders. So in that situation, you're probably getting both.

[Vampmare]

People often start insulting their superiors when they are being told to follow orders, so those two often go hand in hand.

You do the crime, you do the time.

[Blade2000Br]

if the guy got charged with both disrespect and insubordination for only calling an officer names, than you should appeal this sentence to the CMP(IC). But often, the marines disrespecting also disobey the orders while calling the officer names. I have seen countless times, so they do stack each other as being different crimes.

[Dolth]

if the guy got charged with both disrespect and insubordination for only calling an officer names, than you should appeal this sentence to the CMP(IC). But often, the marines disrespecting also disobey the orders while calling the officer names. I have seen countless times, so they do stack each other as being different crimes.

With all due respect, buddy.
If that situation happen, the report will lead to nowhere.

As much as this got into a arguable thread, and as much as this is still not crystal clear and multiple staff people have different opinions.
This is just another grey-zone of CM, whereas people can just act freely.

Regardless, glad we came to an agreement Cromwel x).

[Sambalu]

Disrespect should absolutely be a crime under marine law, but the current way it's handled seems a bit off.
I've seen marines get arrested for banter with their SLs, while the SL was repeatedly telling the MP that he didn't feel disrespected at all.
Aside from obvious things such as insulting the CO, telling people of higher rank to fuck off, or equally stupid shit, MPs shouldn't decide wether it's disrespect. If someone feels disrespected they should have to order an arrest.
That's really the only issue I have with the current disrespect law: it doesn't consider wheter or not anyone felt disrespected, but rather how the MP feels about the situation.

[Philby0]

I understand what Dolth is talking about. Sometimes, MPs will decide that being insubordinate is disrespect in itself, or that disrespecting an officer is insubordination, just so they'll be able to charge extra time. It's not really a matter of them stacking or not, but more that they're general enough to be the default "I want this guy brigged" charge. In the end this falls on the CMP, so apart from enforcing marine law on MPs more, I don't know if there's much we can do about it.

[KingKire]

I dont know. I do know that our source material that were working with (aliens 2), is indeed, filled with a wee bit of attitude towards all ranks. Respectful disrespect i guess? Somebodies gotta punch Lt's in the mouth and save the day.

[RiskySikh]

yeah if these fools disrespect my yeezies and nikes i say give them execution yo

[Renomaki]

The thing is, in REAL LIFE, men in the military are expected to show loyalty and maturity, and of course are expected to respect the chain of command.

Failure to do is often punished in a number of ways. Seriously, go to bootcamp and tell your drill Sargent to suck your balls, you can expect a toothbrush in your hand and to be stuck in the men's bathroom for the rest of the day as a result.

[Chaznoodles]

No.

Disrespect, as a crime, is purely used by MPs and officers to stack time on people they dislike. They don't recognise the difference between friendly banter between people who have served on the ship for a long period of time, an expression from someone who just watched all their friends die, and proper disrespect. The source material in itself is filled with this sort of banter, as these people have served together for god know how long. This far out in space - in a 2d spessmens game - there's zero point in shoving someone in a time-out box for calling you a naughty name, other than to serve your own powerboner or to intentionally bait someone into doing something more.

[Asmodius]

No.

lol

[Renomaki]

No.

You do realize this mostly applies to marines shit-talking their commanding officers, right? This isn't quite between marines, but rather between marines and officers, and I'm not talking MPs here.

It is bad enough that we have marine players that show no respect to command staff as is (making being part of said staff a thankless job), but when players can freely insult you for little to no reason and act like they are far superior than their "superior", then things start to get out of hand really bad.

After all, when older players start disrespecting their commanding officer in front of newer players and getting away with it, that just teaches them that it is ok to treat your higher ups like shit and makes them think they don't have to listen to anything they say, because Jimmy in Delta Team says all the officers are dumb and to never listen to them.

One of the purposes OF the law is to instill discipline into marines. Sure, it may mean you HAVE to deal with an idiot who outranks you, but HEY, welcome to the MILITARY! That shit happens more than you think, and you know what real soldiers do? Nothing, because they are trained to be loyal to their commanding staff and do as they are told (and quietly complain behind their officer's backs).

Like others will no doubt point you, it is no surprise that you are against such a law, being that you are known to be horribly uncooperative with your commanding officers to the point of BLATANTLY disobeying orders in other to satisfy your own needs. Then again, being a Hippie player, I suppose it is just the result of habits carried over.