The issues with "maining"

[Rohesie]

Yeah, I know the exploit that bypasses the RNG (It also sure as shit isn't picking one role and hitting Never on everything else. You're lucky if you get anything other than PFC), and you know what? There are a hundred and fifty plus idiots vying for the same roles all at once. I use it every single time. I'm not obligated, nor will I ever be, to hold the hand of a learning player by giving up my slot.

Wait, what?

[Clutch]

You know what i forgot to mention?

how maining can also lead to elitism.

I seen this happen a lot with squads lately, who are all supposed to be brothers in arms who look out for each other, regardless of who they belong to. Nowadays, though, with the ability to select the squad you wish you join, I notice it has resulted in a bit of squad decide, where rather than working together, they are more competing for glory and to be the MVP squad of the lot.

As early as round start, you'd see members of various squads shitting on the other squads and acting like their squad is the only one that can be trusted. This happens the most with Delta, but can also happen with Charlie as well. This is mainly due to the fact that a lot of regulars will set their spawns to be Delta/Charlie only, and simply because their squad is mostly made up of "cool kids", they assume that makes them vastly superior to everyone else by default. It gets so bad that you have people who, upon NOT spawning in with their preferred squad, whining and demanding to be transferred, simply because they REFUSE to deal with the "alphatards" or "bravobums". Or in the case of a delta main going into charlie, the "charliechumps". Trust me, I witnessed this happen WAY more than I wished to.

That elitism is kinda why I wish the whole ability to "choose your squad" wasn't a thing, even if many others tell me that it improves RP between people. In my experience, all it really does is create a mild form of toxicity and looking down upon others. It is why I still to this day keep my squad setting to RNG, and accept the fact that I'm mostly going to get the less popular squads... Sure, I won't get to be around those that enjoy my company as often, but at least it ensures there is SOMEONE with experience that the newbies can look to for inspiration, right?

That is how I think of it at least...

I disagree, the servers been up for 3 years and theres been 3 years of roleplay and playing with people. I personally play Delta because I know alot of people that I enjoy to play with are in there and because Squad banter, the fact that Delta may shit on Charlie is competition and thats natural. Deltas will still risk their life's to save other squads and people and thats not only Delta but other squas aswell. Elitism is a dumb term and its really not what's going on here.

[spheretech]

Marine on the other hand has also had a lot of the challenge removed. They aren’t winning more but they’re easier to play.

Both these changes come from the fact that the devs are taking creativity out of the picture. The way the server is going, what it’s heading towards is a linear game. Much like many triple A games we get now a days. They’re taking away player choice in favor of a linear, pre designed playstyle. Marines will always have creativity in them yes, but it’s being limited.

This is exactly whats happening and truer words couldn't have been said.

And about the elitism part some people are talking about;
Each squad calls the other squads names and it's just funny, not meant in a hostile way. However there is definite truth about squad competence.
I sure as hell am not gonna run into the hive for a random alpha whos probably played 3 times total, because IF I do rescue him, I won't know that hes competent enough to help us both get out of there.
But if a familiar name needs help, delta will put the whole squad on the line to rescue them. Regulars flock to charlie and delta because they wanna play with friends, familiar names and competent players.
Playing in alpha or bravo has been the most frustrating thing for me because when I needed help or if I got tackled at the front, they couldn't do shit and I would die. Delta and charlie are just more fun.

[Crab_Spider]

Reno. I don't think I understand what's being argued here. Can you simplify what you mean?

[Renomaki]

You're gonna disagree, Reno, but hey, your argument rubs me the wrong way.

Well, this thread was made for discussion, to figure things out and get other viewpoints while I vent and let something out that I myself been holding in for awhile.

I have good points, I have bad points, I can see that as the thread moves along with everyone contributing something to the table in one form or another, helping to better picture the mindset of the community for myself to observe and understand.

No need to get a tad hostile, though...

However, I do thank you for PROVING that there is something fucky with the RNG. I KNEW there was something up with it, and that might explain why some regulars hit it so easily compared to others (moreso the min-maxing powergamer types).

[Renomaki]

Reno. I don't think I understand what's being argued here. Can you simplify what you mean?

I could TRY, but thinking about it, it is a bit complicated...

As I said, maining is when you only do one faction/job/squad, and nothing but. In my opinion, I feel that doing so can lead to bias, powergaming, toxicity and even elitism.

The bias comes in the form of one faction often complaining about the other and/or acting superior to them in some fashion. They make suggestions for updates that do not take the other side into account (AKA wanting things that give them unfair advantages), complain how broken or unfair the other side is in combat (such as how many marines forget as to WHY xenos have such a heavy tackle in the first place), and in general just can't see things from the other side of the fence. Knowing both sides can give you a better understanding as to WHY they do what they do, and what might seem bullshit at first may not be as bullshitty as it seems (such as combat hugging, hiding mines under garbage, etc).

Powergaming is the result of players who play a single role so much that they end up overperfecting it, developing a form of OCD where they MUST do certain things and HAVE certain items in order to be at their very best, even if it means forgoing logical RP. I see it happen quite a bit, from specs ordering ammo ahead of time, medics exploiting inventory mechanics to cram as much drugs into their packs as they can, and of course the classic "take off armor to run faster" PFC. I can understand if you like playing a certain role, but just because you are good at it, do you REALLY need to try and minmax to push your expertise even further? What is wrong with standard issue?

Toxicity and elitism can technically be in the same boat, even if they are different in a way. I see this in the form of xenos who often disrespect their queen and treat her as a tool to their own success rather than as their glorious leader who they must respect (aka REEEEE I DON'T WANNA LISTEN I WANNA KILL SHIT). In marines, it is even more plentiful, from the toxic command/marine relationship to how certain squads put other squads down for being made up of fresher players (people are so mean to Alpha these days it isn't even funny anymore). Maybe in this area, I exaggerate it a tad, but it does feel like it to me at times.

Everyone here has their defense against my claims, and they have their points as I do. After all, I'm not here to argue, just discuss and express.

[Enceri]

I disagree, the servers been up for 3 years and theres been 3 years of roleplay and playing with people. I personally play Delta because I know alot of people that I enjoy to play with are in there and because Squad banter, the fact that Delta may shit on Charlie is competition and thats natural. Deltas will still risk their life's to save other squads and people and thats not only Delta but other squas aswell. Elitism is a dumb term and its really not what's going on here.

Most squads after the initial banter at roundstart/briefing will completely ignore it to go and fight as a group once you deploy. It doesn't matter, as long as the guy next to you has a gun and can shoot, you're all marines. As Bwoden said, squads will go to the rescue to other squads.

[Casany]

Everyone here has their defense against my claims, and they have their points as I do. After all, I'm not here to argue, just discuss and express.

A lot of people have expressed their views, but no one has attempted to discuss them.
Why don't we discuss? I've heard your points and I disagree with them, explain why you disagree with the points made here instead of stating the initial point from the first post you made.

Try and take in others arguments and consider changing your opinion if they have substance to them. If you don't it's fine, but I'd personally like to know what is wrong with my way of thinking so I can in the future express my opinion in the best way, and perhaps in the end have the most informed opinion. From my personal experience with you Reno I know you're not the kinda guy to be hardheaded (Even if you're a bit over dramatic)

[spheretech]

But we shit on all squads equally. In fact, the name deltards circles around most frequently.
And theres no point trying to lie to ourselves or try to hide that alpha followed by bravo are the worst squads made up of newbs that will shoot you in the back of the skull.
Respect is earned. Most easily by being competent.

[Westhybrid]

Nice admitting to exploiting bugs.

You have to hit ready faster than the other hundred something people in the game. That’s literally it.

The ready-up system for SS13 is a first come first serve basis. That’s why people who ready up faster are often antag or special roles. And there is a margin of error where it doesn’t work and you don’t get the role you picked, which is why it’s not a bug, not an exploit, but fair game. The only exploit was knowing it while you idiots did not.

It wasn’t rocket science to figure it out.

[spheretech]

You have to hit ready faster than the other hundred something people in the game. That’s literally it.

The ready-up system for SS13 is a first come first serve basis. That’s why people who ready up faster are often antag or special roles. And there is a margin of error where it doesn’t work and you don’t get the role you picked, which is why it’s not a bug, not an exploit, but fair game. The only exploit was knowing it while you idiots did not.

It wasn’t rocket science to figure it out.

what the fuck is that actually a thing... how did you even find that out

[Westhybrid]

what the fuck is that actually a thing... how did you even find that out

When you ready up first enough times and you always get antag on Bay, it kinda answers itself.

[Renomaki]

A lot of people have expressed their views, but no one has attempted to discuss them.
Why don't we discuss? I've heard your points and I disagree with them, explain why you disagree with the points made here instead of stating the initial point from the first post you made.

Try and take in others arguments and consider changing your opinion if they have substance to them. If you don't it's fine, but I'd personally like to know what is wrong with my way of thinking so I can in the future express my opinion in the best way, and perhaps in the end have the most informed opinion. From my personal experience with you Reno I know you're not the kinda guy to be hardheaded (Even if you're a bit over dramatic)

Well, by the looks of things, I don't think I have much room to argue, considering everyone is in the area of "maining isn't bad, you just a stick in the mud", and maybe I am.

I had a lot of bad experiences with those who "main" things in the past though, and recent events also bother me. After awhile, I decided to make this topic to see if I was the only one who felt the way he did about mainers, but I guess, save a few people who agree with SOME points, I am alone in how I feel.

Maybe I play the game too seriously compared to the lot. I stick to standard (as in, standard issue), I have particular views on how each job is to be played, I try my best to respect the chain of command more than most (even if chances are it goes horribly wrong for me), and as mentioned before, even if I end up rolling I job I am not quite in the mood to play that round, I still do it anyway out of obligation, since SOMEONE has to do it. I don't mean it to come off as "I'm better than you" because that isn't the reason behind what I do and why I do it. I do it because I want to be a team player, yuh know? Good intentions.

Honestly, it is hard to really get out how I feel about certain things. Again, bad at arguing (personal issues, really). Maybe I was rash? Possibly. People provided their views and I read them, and in the end I cannot think of anything to really counter their points without coming off as an ass. After all, all I want is to create a better community that is less prone to salting up the place whenever an update rolls out and have folks show more respect to one another instead of acting holier than thou yet never truly knowing what it is like to be in another's shoes.

Honestly, this took way longer than needed to post and I'm not even sure if it'll elicit the response I'm hoping for.

[Sulaboy]

The biggest issue with maining is falling into a rut. I like Reno's points, but there is the issue that people have personal preferences. Maining isn't wrong, but it can be unhealthy for the game if done incorrectly. The issue isn't playing the same role repeatedly, but that it reduces the uniqueness of a round. When you play the same role over and over again you tend to "streamline the fun". It makes you lose sight of the roleplay that can happen. Every role in this game can be fun, it's just the mindset of the player that matters.

While it's all fine and well to get good at a specific role you're scope will be too small to understand the ship as a whole. So yeah, you could play only PFC or only medic or whatever, it's just a really good thing to play another role every once in a while.

[apophis775]

Third, I couldn't give two shits if my consistent playing of a role denies someone the ability to play it for a couple rounds a day. Yeah, I know the exploit that bypasses the RNG (It also sure as shit isn't picking one role and hitting Never on everything else. You're lucky if you get anything other than PFC), and you know what? There are a hundred and fifty plus idiots vying for the same roles all at once. I use it every single time. I'm not obligated, nor will I ever be, to hold the hand of a learning player by giving up my slot.

You should be reporting that bug to staff, not exploiting/abusing it.

We're going to launch an investigation into this.

[Casany]

Well, by the looks of things, I don't think I have much room to argue, considering everyone is in the area of "maining isn't bad, you just a stick in the mud", and maybe I am.

I had a lot of bad experiences with those who "main" things in the past though, and recent events also bother me. After awhile, I decided to make this topic to see if I was the only one who felt the way he did about mainers, but I guess, save a few people who agree with SOME points, I am alone in how I feel.

Maybe I play the game too seriously compared to the lot. I stick to standard (as in, standard issue), I have particular views on how each job is to be played, I try my best to respect the chain of command more than most (even if chances are it goes horribly wrong for me), and as mentioned before, even if I end up rolling I job I am not quite in the mood to play that round, I still do it anyway out of obligation, since SOMEONE has to do it. I don't mean it to come off as "I'm better than you" because that isn't the reason behind what I do and why I do it. I do it because I want to be a team player, yuh know? Good intentions.

Honestly, it is hard to really get out how I feel about certain things. Again, bad at arguing (personal issues, really). Maybe I was rash? Possibly. People provided their views and I read them, and in the end I cannot think of anything to really counter their points without coming off as an ass. After all, all I want is to create a better community that is less prone to salting up the place whenever an update rolls out and have folks show more respect to one another instead of acting holier than thou yet never truly knowing what it is like to be in another's shoes.

Honestly, this took way longer than needed to post and I'm not even sure if it'll elicit the response I'm hoping for.

Having opinions is fine my man.

See, I can see where you’re coming from. It’s from a more mil-sim point of view on the game, if that makes sense. Play your role even if you may not want to because you need to help your team.

I disagree because I view the game less from a “we need to win” standpoint. I think the game in the end is a sort of battle of wits as well as skill, as well as RNG. But in the end to me and a lot of players it isn’t about which team wins.

I’m all about helping a team win but that doesn’t really matter.

But you’re reasoning is coming from a logical place and a lotta players probably agree, they just don’t like to get involved on the forums

[apophis775]

Nevermind the investigation.

I see how Westhybrid thinks it works and he's totally wrong.

None of the servers anywhere use a "first come, first serve" system.

Ours for example, basically does this:

Grabs the role it wants to fill.
Grabs a list of everyone queued up that would go into that role who does not yet have a role.
Picks a random number between 1 and the highest number in the list (because, Arrays in Byond start at 1 for some unknown reason)
Assigns the person in that slot in the list to the number.
Grabs the next role, and continues on.

That delay at the start of the game, is it assigning everyone to their proper roles.


Anyone who says it's "first come, first serve" must be the ULTIMATE UNGA. I mean, randomizing and shuffling arrays is like, intro to programming: High School edition levels of easy.

[Kerek]

I don’t see an issue at all with people playing the role they enjoy the most. Why would we have an issue with that? Everyone has their niche that they like to fill, and thats the one they fill.

[Westhybrid]

Anyone who says it's "first come, first serve" must be the ULTIMATE UNGA. I mean, randomizing and shuffling arrays is like, intro to programming: High School edition levels of easy.

Oh boy. You really got me there.

I’m not a programmer. I’m just informing you I’m getting the roles I roll for 80% of the time. You can try it out yourself. Maybe I’m wrong and it’s superficial, but I haven’t had any reason to doubt the process. I thought the way it worked was obvious from where I was standing.

[apophis775]

Oh boy. You really got me there.

I’m not a programmer. I’m just informing you I’m getting the roles I roll for 80% of the time. You can try it out yourself. Maybe I’m wrong and it’s superficial, but I haven’t had any reason to doubt the process. I thought the way it worked was obvious from where I was standing.

I seriously doubt it's 80% of the time. True, there are minor things you can do to increase getting specific roles (mostly turning other roles off so you don't get drafted into those). But there is no magic exploit related to "Ready speed". You can be the very last person to ready before the round starts and you have the exact same chance as anyone else who readies. What determines you getting the role you want, is how many people are queueing for that role, and what other roles you are queued for that are pulled before it.

My point was that, thinking we'd be so stupid as to include something as silly as "first come first server" is just plain stupid.
I mean, the server doesn't even run any code other than texting until the round turns on.

The reason you "think" that happens on Bay, is that Bay rolls Antags before ANYTHING else, so if you are trying to get a roll and don't have Antags turned on, you will nearly always get that role. Conversely, if you only have antags turned on, you'll nearly always get them because people don't like to antag as much on bay.

But ours, we wrote from scratch, and there is no way to trick/pass the RNG.

[Westhybrid]

I seriously doubt it's 80% of the time. True, there are minor things you can do to increase getting specific roles (mostly turning other roles off so you don't get drafted into those). But there is no magic exploit related to "Ready speed". You can be the very last person to ready before the round starts and you have the exact same chance as anyone else who readies. What determines you getting the role you want, is how many people are queueing for that role, and what other roles you are queued for that are pulled before it.

My point was that, thinking we'd be so stupid as to include something as silly as "first come first server" is just plain stupid.
I mean, the server doesn't even run any code other than texting until the round turns on.

The reason you "think" that happens on Bay, is that Bay rolls Antags before ANYTHING else, so if you are trying to get a roll and don't have Antags turned on, you will nearly always get that role. Conversely, if you only have antags turned on, you'll nearly always get them because people don't like to antag as much on bay.

But ours, we wrote from scratch, and there is no way to trick/pass the RNG.

Then it was dumb luck on my part, and I retract my statements. Sorry for being obtuse.

[Challenger]

Reno brings up good points but I think they're too focused on a cynical perspective where things don't work out unless someone sacrifices themselves to the gods.

4: Refusing the call can result in a hampered experience for all

Again related to maining jobs, but as we all clearly experience more often than not, there are bound to be shortages of staff on the Almayer not so much due to lack of population, but more because a lot of people don't WANT to do something outside their comfort zone. Be it being a doctor or an overwatch officer, or even a boring old MP or CT.

I had times where I tired to roll for a certain job, only to get stuck with a job I didn't want (like CMP or CE), so what did I do? I rolled with the punches and took up the task at hand, because if RNG decided I was needed there, then I would do my best in the position. Others, however, would just go "Screw this, I'm goin to cyro!" and they abandon their RNG chosen responsibilities.

Not all jobs are fun, but someone HAS to do it. Otherwise NO ONE will have fun in the future because there is no one to do the boring stuff.

This is basic utilitarianism, one (support) guy has to suffer so that ten (frontline) people can be happy, or else it'll just be eleven (frontline) unhappy guys. But I don't think the solution to this is an internal feeling of guilt or external pressure, it's always better to set up positive incentives instead. IRL generally there's supply and demand in these kinds of things. If there's a job that's not fun to do, it'll get less applicants, so the guy wanting to hire people has to do something else to make it more desirable, pay more, or advertise it to make people want it, or fund university programs for it to get people skilled in it or something. It's why there's such a massive disparity in pay between game devs and COBOL consultants, both of these jobs are programming, but one of them is oversaturated by people who want to do it and the other has to resort to exorbitant money to its employees to stop them from leaving. In the end, one group of people gets to have exciting "fun" work on games, while the other group gets fairly boring work but comes home with massive wads of cash, and (hopefully) both groups are "equally happy" as a result. Obviously real life is much more complicated and the unchecked free market does stupid shit like global warming and lootboxes, but supply and demand generally evens things out.

The same applies to CM roles. Obviously there's no in-game currency that pays shitty jobs more, although there is something similar if you think of combat as a desirable thing: boots get the most combat, but have the shittiest gear and skills. NCOs don't face as much combat, but they get fancier toys. Shipside roles have the least combat, but the fanciest gear and skills. Then you have other "fun" things like RP, chain of command, "impact on the round" that the different roles have a different balance of. Most importantly, I think the point needs to be made that the devs are all completely in control of all this. If there's genuinely not enough people joining support roles and it's adversely impacting people having fun, they can just make the support role more fun by tweaking it. There's really no point "taking one for the team" and doing something you don't want to do, if anything this might actually be a bad decision because the devs won't be sure that the role is unfun if there's people who keep playing it anyway.

1: It creates bias and a narrow mindset

This one issue relates more to the faction side of things, but can also apply to jobs as well. You all probably heard about how "the aliens are OP, marines never win!" or "the Marines are filthy metarushers!" or maybe even something along the lines of "Lol get good xeno/marine". While not always the case (aliens ARE supposed to be OP, and marines DO sometimes rush), it is often due to players only really focusing on one side or the other, them not really having experienced what the other side was like and what they have to go through day by day. For instance, a lot of marine mains complain about the absurd stunning ability that most xenos have. However, that stun is vital for capturing, containing, and even fighting marines in melee, who by the way have lots and lots of GUNS as well as EXPLOSIVES that stun most xenos down and fuck them over at the worst moments. Same could be said about xenos bitching about mines and grenade spam, when they themselves have the aforementioned stunning power mentioned before.

This also can result in biased suggestions, with both marine and xeno mains making up ideas that aren't very fair for the other side but would benefit them greatly on THEIR side. Take CaS, for instance. A lot of marine Mains complain about how the xenos meta the laser and request it be removed. However, it wouldn't be very fair to the xenos to get randomly blown up without any warning. Same logic goes for OBs, and how often did marines complain about that? Of course, it wasn't always marines making unfair suggestions, but those are two of the simpler examples I could think up

Generally, by refusing to put yourself in the other faction's shoes, it is very easy to not notice the struggles they go through, as well as the reason behind certain balancing decisions.

I think it's actually often unhelpful for people to consider the other factions when voicing a complaint. If something's unfun, then it's unfun and that should be communicated. If marines genuinely feel that tackles and spit are stupid, then they should suggest removing them. If xenos think marine explosives are genuinely unfun, they should suggest removing them. Maybe the devs will find out that there's a way to balance the game and add a mechanic to replace tackles, spit, and explosives, and then everyone's happier. But if marines were thinking "well xenos won't find that fun" and xenos thought "marines won't find that fun" then neither of them will suggest or voice anything and the devs will have no idea there's even a problem because they never play.

This pretty much comes down to "the worst thing that could happen if you ask is that they say no". IRL some things can be insensitive to ask but I think a lot of that is muted online anyway.

Now that said, obviously considering the other side is really helpful to put things into perspective and not unironically get mad at other people for just playing how they're supposed to or something, but it's not outright necessary. The playerbase has no power whatsoever in running the server so it really doesn't matter what they say or do.

2: One becomes a master of one skillset and one skillset alone

This one is more job focused, in that it discusses the issue of putting all your efforts into a SINGLE job.

The marine side has many jobs available, from lowly grunts to high ranking officers and everything in between. So much to choose from, yet so little time in the day to experience them all. And yet... There are some people that pick only the ONE job and NEVER gravitate away from it, EVER. They might go 3 whole months playing nothing but Combat Engineer or Doctor or something of the sort. While this means they learn every trick in the book and then some and become a master, they are but a master of one job and one job only, and no doubt are unwilling to try something new due to them being too stuck into their comfortzone to try and wiggle out.

Yes, this can be good for some people, but in the long run, it can get pretty boring, which can lead to all kinds of problems. From biased opinions to potential powergaming (mainly due to them getting TOO good at it to the point they start discovering exploits and unintended tricks, such as the infamous cloaking RPG incident that got the cloaker specialist nerfed), as well as the eventual boredom of doing the same thing over and over again and not trying something new. I can never understand how a person can tolerate doing the same shit day after day, month after month without losing interest.. But for some jobs, this brings me to another issue...

None of this except the powergaming (which is handled by the rules) is really an issue, since it doesn't harm other people in the game. If someone prefers routine to novelty and doesn't get bored doing the same thing over and over again, that's not really a problem, it's their life not yours. I think people who play the same role a lot are just finding new, different self-imposed challenges in it anyway, or doing it while relaxing or whatever. Regardless, there's not really an issue.

3: hogging roles denies others the experience of said role

Everyone knows the ol' meme of the Specialist, right? A lot of people roll for this job in the hopes of getting to play with the fancy toys that come with it. Some people, however, found tricks to increase their chance of rolling it, which of course makes it harder for others to get it.

This, of course, is a bad thing in the long run. Sure, you'll have people that know how to use the role to its fullest, but you also deny people a chance at learning and experiencing it. I myself have given up on trying to roll for it most of the time because of how difficult it is to get, and it sucks that I have a role that is rarer than getting PREDATOR. I wish I could play it a bit more when I am in the mood for it and learn how to use the weapons better, but alas... Certain marine mains will almost ALWAYS get it.

Yeah, it sounds more like a personal issue than anything, but it still bugs me how a person can choose to main a role as difficult to get as spec, making it frustrating to attempt and making the learning process for said role slower. Same could be said about smartgunners too. And if the role is a single slot only, then it REALLY starts to suck.

Amusingly enough, this can also happen ICly as well, mainly between POs and the duty of CaS.

This goes back to the thing about supply and demand and the devs being able to affect anything. Nothing is untouchable by code and adminnery. Just add a cooldown to demanded roles if it's a problem, or make a rule for it, or nerf specialists or something. Maybe the devs don't even see "hogging" as a problem, since there's happiness being made out of allowing hogging than sadness created.

In the end everything really goes up the chain to Apop, it's his server and he could decide that the only audience he wants on the server is himself and ban everyone else and no one could stop it. As a player, just play if you find it fun and don't if you don't.

[Lumdor]

Don't believe there is any issue on maining.

Though mostly I play in Delta, there are only a handful of faces that I see play in it mainly.

Alpha and Bravo have always been the squads that have the newer players.

Charlie and Delta mostly have been the oldies/regulars who enjoy playing with players they know and can trust.

Although getting rid of squad pref would not hurt me much, as I can unga dunga in any squad you throw me in.

[Sulaboy]

-Snip

Discussion is more about maining a role instead of a squad. Like playing only specialist.

[Lumdor]

Discussion is more about maining a role instead of a squad. Like playing only specialist.

I'm the big dumb, but my comment still stands!