The issues with "maining"

[Renomaki]

Maining is a concept that a lot of regulars are quite familiar with. For those who aren't, it is the idea of putting all your focus on a single area and nothing else. Rather than becoming a jack of all trades, they become a specialist in a single field to the point that they can't do anything else, or rather they just refuse to do anything else.

The most basic form of "maining" is faction based. You have marine mains and xeno mains, who both like to bitch at each other and call the other side a bunch of filthy powergaming scumbags. Then, for the marine side (due to the xeno side not having this issue, but rather a different, unrelated issue altogether), you have the "Job Mains". These people prefer to play only a select few (or only ONE) job, and ONLY that. Trying new things is beyond them, and they would rather enter cyro and sit out the game than try something new.

Now, you could say that having someone who plays the same faction or role very often might be a good thing, because that means they have a very deep understanding of their role/faction, meaning you can rely on them to do a pretty good job compared to most. However, despite the benefits, there are far more downsides than up. I shall list them in no particular order:

1: It creates bias and a narrow mindset

This one issue relates more to the faction side of things, but can also apply to jobs as well. You all probably heard about how "the aliens are OP, marines never win!" or "the Marines are filthy metarushers!" or maybe even something along the lines of "Lol get good xeno/marine". While not always the case (aliens ARE supposed to be OP, and marines DO sometimes rush), it is often due to players only really focusing on one side or the other, them not really having experienced what the other side was like and what they have to go through day by day. For instance, a lot of marine mains complain about the absurd stunning ability that most xenos have. However, that stun is vital for capturing, containing, and even fighting marines in melee, who by the way have lots and lots of GUNS as well as EXPLOSIVES that stun most xenos down and fuck them over at the worst moments. Same could be said about xenos bitching about mines and grenade spam, when they themselves have the aforementioned stunning power mentioned before.

This also can result in biased suggestions, with both marine and xeno mains making up ideas that aren't very fair for the other side but would benefit them greatly on THEIR side. Take CaS, for instance. A lot of marine Mains complain about how the xenos meta the laser and request it be removed. However, it wouldn't be very fair to the xenos to get randomly blown up without any warning. Same logic goes for OBs, and how often did marines complain about that? Of course, it wasn't always marines making unfair suggestions, but those are two of the simpler examples I could think up

Generally, by refusing to put yourself in the other faction's shoes, it is very easy to not notice the struggles they go through, as well as the reason behind certain balancing decisions.

2: One becomes a master of one skillset and one skillset alone

This one is more job focused, in that it discusses the issue of putting all your efforts into a SINGLE job.

The marine side has many jobs available, from lowly grunts to high ranking officers and everything in between. So much to choose from, yet so little time in the day to experience them all. And yet... There are some people that pick only the ONE job and NEVER gravitate away from it, EVER. They might go 3 whole months playing nothing but Combat Engineer or Doctor or something of the sort. While this means they learn every trick in the book and then some and become a master, they are but a master of one job and one job only, and no doubt are unwilling to try something new due to them being too stuck into their comfortzone to try and wiggle out.

Yes, this can be good for some people, but in the long run, it can get pretty boring, which can lead to all kinds of problems. From biased opinions to potential powergaming (mainly due to them getting TOO good at it to the point they start discovering exploits and unintended tricks, such as the infamous cloaking RPG incident that got the cloaker specialist nerfed), as well as the eventual boredom of doing the same thing over and over again and not trying something new. I can never understand how a person can tolerate doing the same shit day after day, month after month without losing interest.. But for some jobs, this brings me to another issue...

3: hogging roles denies others the experience of said role

Everyone knows the ol' meme of the Specialist, right? A lot of people roll for this job in the hopes of getting to play with the fancy toys that come with it. Some people, however, found tricks to increase their chance of rolling it, which of course makes it harder for others to get it.

This, of course, is a bad thing in the long run. Sure, you'll have people that know how to use the role to its fullest, but you also deny people a chance at learning and experiencing it. I myself have given up on trying to roll for it most of the time because of how difficult it is to get, and it sucks that I have a role that is rarer than getting PREDATOR. I wish I could play it a bit more when I am in the mood for it and learn how to use the weapons better, but alas... Certain marine mains will almost ALWAYS get it.

Yeah, it sounds more like a personal issue than anything, but it still bugs me how a person can choose to main a role as difficult to get as spec, making it frustrating to attempt and making the learning process for said role slower. Same could be said about smartgunners too. And if the role is a single slot only, then it REALLY starts to suck.

Amusingly enough, this can also happen ICly as well, mainly between POs and the duty of CaS.

4: Refusing the call can result in a hampered experience for all

Again related to maining jobs, but as we all clearly experience more often than not, there are bound to be shortages of staff on the Almayer not so much due to lack of population, but more because a lot of people don't WANT to do something outside their comfort zone. Be it being a doctor or an overwatch officer, or even a boring old MP or CT.

I had times where I tired to roll for a certain job, only to get stuck with a job I didn't want (like CMP or CE), so what did I do? I rolled with the punches and took up the task at hand, because if RNG decided I was needed there, then I would do my best in the position. Others, however, would just go "Screw this, I'm goin to cyro!" and they abandon their RNG chosen responsibilities.

Not all jobs are fun, but someone HAS to do it. Otherwise NO ONE will have fun in the future because there is no one to do the boring stuff.
_____

So... What of you? What are your opinions on maining a single faction/job? If you only do a single job, then why? What is stopping you from dabbling in other fields? What about dabbling in the other faction for awhile and seeing things from a different perspective?

No doubt quite a few people will disagree with me, but then again, I do play the game a tad differently than most, so my views on things are different than most I believe. Or at least it feels that way sometimes.

[edda]

I think points 1 and 2 aren't particularly noteworthy in CM because the meta isn't MLG enough where optimal play, i.e. a very solid understanding of all roles and skillsets, is required to be robust. Point 4 may have some validity, but I've never found a high-enough-pop game without at least one person in each boring role, and in low-pop games it's expected that even interesting roles aren't staffed.

Point 3 is probably the only thing, but what can be done. Everyone wants to be tacticool.

[Butlerblock]

Marines are boring. It's hard to focus on improving myself when I have an entire squad to deal with. I'd rather just be on my own, and focusing on getting myself the best I can be, not having to deal with braindead baldies that will shoot me in the face if I look at them the wrong way, so I main xeno.

I also main hunter because I feel as if the only way to not instantly die as any other caste (except runner, and in some cases ravager), is to play extremely safe, and stick to other groups of xenos, else you would get ran down by the first marine that looks at you. And that's boring. I want to challenge an entire squad of marines without being instakilled, because that's fun and challenging, not sitting in the middle of weeds pressing middle click every few seconds, requiring, and giving, minimal work.

This is also the same reason I'm so keen on getting round start larva. Not because I want my precious precious T2 slot, it's because I want to hit higher maturity levels as a hunter, so that I can make larger and larger risks. As a young hunter you're basically useless, and can easily die by a few bullets, and get oneshot but a shottie, close to the same with mature. And the only way I start having fun with these challenges is to wait a grueling, near hour-long wait and become elite, where I won't get instantly blown up by the first marine that decides to put his cursor over my sprite and click twice, which allows me to take risks that I think are fun and challenging. When I get ancient I basically suicide rush the nearest medium sized group of marines I can until I get really low, and then hop away. As anything other than ancient, I'd get instakilled.

[Loco52]

Marines are boring. It's hard to focus on improving myself when I have an entire squad to deal with. I'd rather just be on my own, and focusing on getting myself the best I can be, not having to deal with braindead baldies that will shoot me in the face if I look at them the wrong way, so I main xeno.

I think if you want to git gud as marine, it'd be wise to play a few survivor rounds. That's where you start getting the hang of combat as a marine/synth/whatever.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

I main marine for the frags and easy kills. The feel of mowing down multiple players who waited hours to tick over to mature/elite to not be useless*(ie die to 3 bullets not 2) is an amazing one. Especially with the larva changes, knowing they have to wait an age to respawn even if they can makes each kill feel meaningful, where as a marine in the rare case I get hurt I can easily be patched up/defibbed.

*useless being a bit of a waste of words due to all xenos being useless when confronted by even a half decent marine.

[Casany]

I used to play both sides. Mainly I played Drone, hivelord, carrier and the occasional runner or hunter. And I would play marine standard and shoot for spec or smartgunner

But recently I’ve fallen out of the xeno side.

Xenos have many issues. Not that they’re OP, I could care less, but that they’re not as fun. The devs, in attempting to give more power to the xenos have in the end taken away a lot of the challenge from playing xeno. It’s not nearly as hard to take on two marines as a xeno and win. It used to be hard, to challenge and excite me. Now it’s just not anymore.

Marine on the other hand has also had a lot of the challenge removed. They aren’t winning more but they’re easier to play.

Both these changes come from the fact that the devs are taking creativity out of the picture. The way the server is going, what it’s heading towards is a linear game. Much like many triple A games we get now a days. They’re taking away player choice in favor of a linear, pre designed playstyle. Marines will always have creativity in them yes, but it’s being limited.

In my opinion, maining is a nonissue. People can do whatever they want, no one should be forced to play a side they don’t have fun with. Let people do what they can do to have fun, that’s what a games for. Games aren’t for people to be forced into roles they don’t like and be forced to forfeit their fun.

Now don’t take me the wrong way. Rules are good and needed. But I mean in the sense that if someone finds enjoyment out of playing spec only let them play spec only, who are they hurting? If someone enjoys rushing T3s and maybe they’re not as good at it, what’s it matter? It’s just a game in the end, it’s designed so people can play it and relax, and enjoy. Now I’ve noticed more and more people treating this game way to seriously when in reality its a vice designed to be enjoyed.

Sorry for the text wall and getting slightly off topic

[DrPng]

I used to play both sides. Mainly I played Drone, hivelord, carrier and the occasional runner or hunter. And I would play marine standard and shoot for spec or smartgunner

But recently I’ve fallen out of the xeno side.

Xenos have many issues. Not that they’re OP, I could care less, but that they’re not as fun. The devs, in attempting to give more power to the xenos have in the end taken away a lot of the challenge from playing xeno. It’s not nearly as hard to take on two marines as a xeno and win. It used to be hard, to challenge and excite me. Now it’s just not anymore.

Marine on the other hand has also had a lot of the challenge removed. They aren’t winning more but they’re easier to play.

Both these changes come from the fact that the devs are taking creativity out of the picture. The way the server is going, what it’s heading towards is a linear game. Much like many triple A games we get now a days. They’re taking away player choice in favor of a linear, pre designed playstyle. Marines will always have creativity in them yes, but it’s being limited.

In my opinion, maining is a nonissue. People can do whatever they want, no one should be forced to play a side they don’t have fun with. Let people do what they can do to have fun, that’s what a games for. Games aren’t for people to be forced into roles they don’t like and be forced to forfeit their fun.

Now don’t take me the wrong way. Rules are good and needed. But I mean in the sense that if someone finds enjoyment out of playing spec only let them play spec only, who are they hurting? If someone enjoys rushing T3s and maybe they’re not as good at it, what’s it matter? It’s just a game in the end, it’s designed so people can play it and relax, and enjoy. Now I’ve noticed more and more people treating this game way to seriously when in reality its a vice designed to be enjoyed.

Sorry for the text wall and getting slightly off topic

True words spoken by a true lad.

No way to fix maining other than letting RNG do its work. In fact, it doesn't need fixing, if a player wants to play a role he/she enjoys best, let them. It's down to the Player to what he/she decides is most enjoyable to them.
Me, personally, I hate Medic/Doctor or any of those roles. They are extremely stressful and not fun at all. I don't play this game so I want to shoot myself while playing.

And I know the roles have to be filled, but to be honest, I'll stick to what I know best.

[edda]

I have to agree with CM feeling like a triple-A game lmao, every game it's the same pattern, because mappers almost always make LZ2 an absolutely crap place to hold. Not to mention the mere fact that FOBbing at LZ2 means you don't have the metal to FOB at LZ1, and not FOBbing at LZ1 means the benos can just call the Alamo down and blindside the Almayer. THAT design decision makes it hard to win with LZ2 FOB unless marines are totally steamrolling.

[Sheodir]

Just a question.

What is this "trick" to get specialist more often? I always thought it was just pure RNG, but if there's manipulation somehow, that needs fixing on the double.

[Casany]

Just a question.

What is this "trick" to get specialist more often? I always thought it was just pure RNG, but if there's manipulation somehow, that needs fixing on the double.

From my knowledge there is no trick, just pure RNG.

[edda]

Legend has it if you ERP a headstaff the round before, your spec roll is guaranteed.

[Renomaki]

Just a question.

What is this "trick" to get specialist more often? I always thought it was just pure RNG, but if there's manipulation somehow, that needs fixing on the double.

I heard that if you set every single job to NEVER and only toggle on the one job, you'll have a higher chance of rolling it.

I'm not sure if this is true, but since I seen certain regulars get the same position many, many times... I can't help but figure they might be rolling that way. Could be just a rumor though..

[Sheodir]

From my knowledge there is no trick, just pure RNG.

That's how it supposedly is, but OP said there is some kind of trick. And at the same time, I can see his point - despite the ridiculous number of people with Spec set to High you'll see the same names over and over again, often in the same *squads* too.

I heard that if you set every single job to NEVER and only toggle on the one job, you'll have a higher chance of rolling it.

I'm not sure if this is true, but since I seen certain regulars get the same position many, many times... I can't help but figure they might be rolling that way. Could be just a rumor though..

Even that wouldn't fully explain it. I at least roll similarly - only toggling the role I want for that round every time in the preferences, set to High with everything else on Never - and even then my odds don't see to go up any.

[WinterClould]

Marine main 4 lyfe. Playing beno is lame as fuck and completely uninteresting. I'll never turn my xeno preference on because fuck that.

I've also played every role for the marine side enough times to understand exactly where I best fit in as a result I'm less of a role specific main and more I play around with my role settings but there's some roles I'll never play.
I'm not a Doctor player, I make a fine doc, but I just don't have fun doing anything medical in this game unless it's squad medic.
I don't enjoy MT, MP, or CT, I'd much rather play CE, CMP, or RO in those cases because those are the roles that actually have the power to do something in the round while the underlings just do whatever.
Since I'm CO whitelisted unless I'm late joining under the command of someone I like then I never role for XO or SO, it just makes more sense to me that I'd be better off rolling for the big boss.


Also as far as getting spec goes, only thing that helps you get it more is having it set to high, and prolly not having any role above it in the list set as well. If you want to be a fancy killing role you'll have a better RNG chance to get Smartgunner just saying.

[Casany]

That's how it supposedly is, but OP said there is some kind of trick. And at the same time, I can see his point - despite the ridiculous number of people with Spec set to High you'll see the same names over and over again, often in the same *squads* too.

It’s because not many of the players actually toggle spec as high. Again, personal preference.

Many baldies who just join to shoot things usually late join, or never set their character prefs and just be marine. And surprisingly some people don’t like to play spec.

Another part of this is that usually you see these people more because those people are KNOWN. You know who they are so you notice them. Spec players who aren’t known tend to be ignored or forgotten which is why this whole “playing the system” thing started.

[BobatNight]

I think the biggest issue has already been touched on, too many roles are linear without the player freedom. I usually hop around roles a lot though, depends on my mood and what sort of atmosphere for the round I want.

[Tisx]

I'm fine with most of the points here but I have a serious issue with number 2: "While this means they learn every trick in the book and then some and become a master, they are but a master of one job and one job only, and no doubt are unwilling to try something new due to them being too stuck into their comfortzone to try and wiggle out."

This statement puts forth that maining as one job only means that someone becomes good at ONLY that job, For example, If I SL main, I will only be good at SL and nothing else, which is completely false. Now, while there are certain roles that have completely unique skill sets and playstyles (MP, PO, RO) to name a couple, most roles in game share skill sets, an SL main would make a good SO, XO, CO, or hell, even a good Queen, as they have master the skill of commanding, and controlling masses of players and only have to adapt to the minor chances that other role asks of them.

[spookydonut]

There's no trick to getting spec, just set it high and pray to the rng.

Another issue with maining roles (especially squad engineer) is it breeds stagnation in strategy, for example fob placement and setup.

[Renomaki]

I'm fine with most of the points here but I have a serious issue with number 2: "While this means they learn every trick in the book and then some and become a master, they are but a master of one job and one job only, and no doubt are unwilling to try something new due to them being too stuck into their comfortzone to try and wiggle out."

This statement puts forth that maining as one job only means that someone becomes good at ONLY that job, For example, If I SL main, I will only be good at SL and nothing else, which is completely false. Now, while there are certain roles that have completely unique skill sets and playstyles (MP, PO, RO) to name a couple, most roles in game share skill sets, an SL main would make a good SO, XO, CO, or hell, even a good Queen, as they have master the skill of commanding, and controlling masses of players and only have to adapt to the minor chances that other role asks of them.

Well, I can't argue with that. I suppose I worded it improperly. It still does apply in a sense, though, and I notice this mostly happens with combat-oriented mains and their refusal to use their skills (or be willing to learn) non-combat/low combat jobs, like doctor or Staff Officer.

Then again, considering what this server is known for, I suppose it makes sense as to WHY that is... Still would be nice if they took a turn at it once in awhile, though.

[Renomaki]

Another issue with maining roles (especially squad engineer) is it breeds stagnation in strategy, for example fob placement and setup.

That alone is another topic altogether, which no doubt has been discussed in the past.

But indeed it is true. When you play the same job over and over again, you start to form a routine, create a familiar build that you bring into each and every round time and time again. Some marines would go so far as to start riots if they didn't get their usual weapon mods from cargo, and if the CO attempts to build an FoB at a new location, the marines get disoriented due to being outside their comfort zone.

Comfort zones are a pretty big issue, really. Moreso when big changes are involved that alter the meta, causing marines to bitch and complain until they adjust in a week or two. I still remember the drama of the "armor slows you down" update... It got so bad they added a new law for uniforms just to force marines to wear their armor. Or at least I think that was how it went? Not entirely sure.

[Casany]

I’ll just sum up my exact opinion with as few words as possible

It is a nonissue.

The only way to stop people from doing what they wanna do to have fun is to FORCE them to play other roles without their choice. And no one wants that.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Side by side rounds having the same CO will most likely lead to the same tactics, the same engineer will lead to the same FOB's being built and so on.Maybe if you roll the role you want, for example engineer or specialist and you end up getting it.You have a 1 or 2 round cooldown until you can get it again.It would easily and effectively make rounds more dynamic.

[Weaselburg]

Side by side rounds having the same CO will most likely lead to the same tactics, the same engineer will lead to the same FOB's being built and so on.Maybe if you roll the role you want, for example engineer or specialist and you end up getting it.You have a 1 or 2 round cooldown until you can get it again.It would easily and effectively make rounds more dynamic.

*Rolls standard, first round* *Second round can´t role standard and rolls SL*

[Casany]

Side by side rounds having the same CO will most likely lead to the same tactics, the same engineer will lead to the same FOB's being built and so on.Maybe if you roll the role you want, for example engineer or specialist and you end up getting it.You have a 1 or 2 round cooldown until you can get it again.It would easily and effectively make rounds more dynamic.

That seems unfair. What if they like that role? We shouldn’t stop people from playing as a role they like for a while. In CM, two rounds can mean 3-6/7 hours before you get the role again, which usually means most people who play casually will only get the role they want once a day when they play.

[spookydonut]

Side by side rounds having the same CO will most likely lead to the same tactics, the same engineer will lead to the same FOB's being built and so on.Maybe if you roll the role you want, for example engineer or specialist and you end up getting it.You have a 1 or 2 round cooldown until you can get it again.It would easily and effectively make rounds more dynamic.

Hmmmmmmmmmm