the controversial topic of BE's

[apophis775]

We are working on adjusting this a bit.
BEs aren't really keeping shitters out of the round as some people exist entirely to try to either get a BE on themselves, or to irritate the commander.
The problem is that players don't respect the commanders and try to antagonize them, so we are looking at ways to fix that.

[Lukey111]

We are working on adjusting this a bit.
BEs aren't really keeping shitters out of the round as some people exist entirely to try to either get a BE on themselves, or to irritate the commander.
The problem is that players don't respect the commanders and try to antagonize them, so we are looking at ways to fix that.

If they do still disrespect, are we going to be aloud to BE them, or only have mps arrest them? I could see you updating the laws to accommodate that.

[Renomaki]

If they do still disrespect, are we going to be aloud to BE them, or only have mps arrest them? I could see you updating the laws to accommodate that.

But there ARE laws for that Lukey.

Yet even then, all it causes is MORE chaos when it is enforced.

If you BE a marine for disrespect, it'll cause a shitstorm. If you have MPs try to arrest a marine for disrespect, it'll ALSO cause a shitstorm, with said marine leading MPs on a wild goosechase and his friends sometimes getting involved in preventing his arrest, which just causes more chaos in the round as a whole.

A lotta people just don't respect the law and their chain of command above NCO, because most punishments for disobeying are just not enough to get a message across. Even a BE can FAIL to send a message, with the offending player just holding a grudge against their commander for daring to resort to such an action (no matter how justified it may be), and in the process causing a greater divide between officers and marines till it all falls apart.

[Heckenshutze]

If we had "moodlets" this would be solved quickly. For every Marine Law breaking you get a bad moodlet that affects your speed and accuracy.

(Of course this is a blatant opinion on how I would make the game so the players regulate themselves without the need of more rules/laws) Because, if you think about we already have a good Marine Law installed, problem is nobody knows it/cares to know it.

[Lukey111]

But there ARE laws for that Lukey.

Where is that? I should probably look at that.

And it would probably be hard to put in moodlets, because the mods probably won't be able to d it, so there should be a system. As in, if you were marked for arrest or marked as in jail, that can be extremely abusive. ex. Marking a wanted marine in captivity to lower their speed so we can catch them. There would have to be some kind of different system...

[Loco52]

But there ARE laws for that Lukey.

Yet even then, all it causes is MORE chaos when it is enforced.

If you BE a marine for disrespect, it'll cause a shitstorm. If you have MPs try to arrest a marine for disrespect, it'll ALSO cause a shitstorm, with said marine leading MPs on a wild goosechase and his friends sometimes getting involved in preventing his arrest, which just causes more chaos in the round as a whole.

A lotta people just don't respect the law and their chain of command above NCO, because most punishments for disobeying are just not enough to get a message across. Even a BE can FAIL to send a message, with the offending player just holding a grudge against their commander for daring to resort to such an action (no matter how justified it may be), and in the process causing a greater divide between officers and marines till it all falls apart.

If you BE someone for disrespect you are a shitloaded dickhead.

[davidofmk771]

Why are people so obsessed with putting more controls on this game?

Marine Law, and the ability to disobey it, IS A GOOD THING.

BEs, and the ability to mutiny after questionable BEs, IS A GOOD THING.

Why anyone here wants MORE staff intervention in a server that deftly avoids the need for staff intervention necessary in other medium-RP servers is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder if the BE-haters are the kind that want to be shitlers without consequence, or the kind that want staff/mechanic intervention to the be ultimate decider in any situation where marines aren't being perfect little soldiers.

Some people enjoy playing scumbags, losers, borderline-cases, and nerds. The military through all history has had plenty of examples, especially in the general infantry population. It bothers me just as much as the trend of staff intervention when war crimes are committed during CLF/UPP rounds. Now I understand wordless low-RP murderboning being an issue, but why even include the part in the wiki's lore where high-ranking authorities ruthlessly wiped out a colony if summarily executing violent insurgents who just killed your fellow marines gets you a bwoink or even a ban?

We should be striving away from staff intervention and cheesy gameplay mechanics to prevent powergaming, shitlery, and murderboning. We have had to make hard compromises in the past with skills, insanity, and synth combat. I don't want BEs and disobeying marine law to join that list.

[BobatNight]

The server already takes too many issues outside of IC that're being solved/worked on ICly. The push for limiting freedoms of the player even more so are getting ridiculous, especially with this vague rule set that is open to 'interpretation' (Don't point that out though it's rule lawyer talk I guess) that staff REGULARLY disagrees on.
If a BE is not justified, make a report, and have the CO explain how you were an imminent threat to the mission success.

[Renomaki]

We should be striving away from staff intervention and cheesy gameplay mechanics to prevent powergaming, shitlery, and murderboning. We have had to make hard compromises in the past with skills, insanity, and synth combat. I don't want BEs and disobeying marine law to join that list.

Ever heard of the old saying "Give a man an inch, and they'll go the whole mile?" (or... Something like that...)

While it is nice to have some IC elements and punishments, sometimes people take it too far. Take the skill system for instance: Back then, there was nothing preventing players from doing pretty much ANYTHING, from construction to first aid. It wasn't a big deal at first, but as more and more players would try to work beyond their roles and do EVERYTHING as a PFC (thus negating the importance of other roles) and staff would be overburdened with trying to keep up, they introduced a skill system to combat it and thus reduce their workload.

Downside to this is now we have very specific training for each job, to the point that doing things as simple as applying C4, preparing a supply beacon or even opening a pill bottle is training that only certain jobs have, which while it does make certain jobs more important and thus wanted, it also means that certain situational events that would be passable given logical circumstances are now impossible. So if you needed to plant C4 on a wall, too bad, you don't got the training for that.

I can understand why a lot of people hate this railroading and all that, but you have to remember that it is often the result of people ABUSING it too much to the point that it becomes a problem. Remember Combat Nesting? Yeah, that is gone now due to drones abusing it too much, so now nesting people is a pain in the ass. Wouldn't have happened if people DIDN'T abuse it, though. What about general coms? Sometimes I miss that, but it is understandable WHY it was removed, due to people relying on it so much to the point that it ended up harming certain other elements (such as reporting information to command, or creating squad cohesion). Since its removal, squads are more tight knit and the Central Intelligence Center gets some of that intel it so desires. But sometimes, I think we all miss the old system we grew up with

Same goes with Marine Law and this BE business. While there are bound to be a few troublemakers here and there, if it gets to the point where it is a regular problem, THEN it becomes an issue. Remember, we are still TRAINED marines, not conscripts that were just picked up and being tossed onto the field in 20 minutes. We should at least have SOME basic understanding of law and our limits. The whole "fuck the CO, I'll do what I want" thing shouldn't be a regular thing round after round, you know? And yet, it happens, which is probably one of the reason why BEs are even a thing, and even THAT didn't fix the issue of people disrespecting the chain of command.

I don't WANT there to be more mechanics and staff intervention for this kinda stuff, but the only way to keep that shit from happening is if people just, you know... Tried not to tempt it. It's like poking a sleeping crocodile, it is gonna bite your hand off sooner or later.

[Casany]

While it is nice to have some IC elements and punishments, sometimes people take it too far. Take the skill system for instance: Back then, there was nothing preventing players from doing pretty much ANYTHING, from construction to first aid. It wasn't a big deal at first, but as more and more players would try to work beyond their roles and do EVERYTHING as a PFC (thus negating the importance of other roles) and staff would be overburdened with trying to keep up, they introduced a skill system to combat it and thus reduce their workload.

Horrible example in my opinion. Many marines just did what was in their job. The MAJORITY, around probably 90-95% of marines did what they were assigned to do. Some may have grabbed some extra med supplies or building supplies to supply their squads medics and engineers, but very few did much more than maybe take their own tram pills (As in, take them, not take them with them) or build a cade at a door.

Mainly you saw marine PFCs doing other roles because either
1. They powergame EVERYTHING, and these players will only be stopped by ban
2. They're desperate. I.E. The medic's are all dead but there is a body with tram pills near, all the engineers are dead but there's some metal on the floor next to you, etc.

But instead of just getting rid of the few problem players they punished everyone. Like they do with everything
SADAR? Few players abused it, all players lost it as it was nerfed into uselessness
Chem? Few players made any more besides the basics and maybe one or two combo pills. Lost all usefulness and nerfed
Research? Like, four players played research and because those players were competent it was literally turned into a useless RP only role.

I could go on, but you get the point. The many suffer because of the few. In SS13 especially it is EXTREMELY easy to rid yourself of players who cause problems, but instead mechanics are put into place which basically limit EVERY player, even the players who don't abuse it. And instead of just fixing the root of the issue they cut down the entire fucking tree and make whatever it used to be into a decorative chair. As in, they nerf whatever it was into the ground and make it useless to everyone else.

[davidofmk771]

The problem that i'm saying is that if a rule regarding disrespecting and disobeying a CO is made, or a mechanic punishes you for breaking marine law, that is a tremendous failure in what I see as a very special aspect of this server. The fact that a semblance of non-creepy RP is retained separates this server from every other one I've seen yet. The lack of staff intervention for anything but ruining someone's round unwarrantedly, ERP, or constant 'dickishness' works very well with the various mechanics that give MPs and the CO an upper hand over regular marines (skills, stunners, BEs) and when boundaries are overstepped, the staff can introduce an IC method for the marines who feel abused to retaliate (and I understand that mutinies are a whole nother can of worms).

Generally the community has done a good job of understanding when these methods are appropriate on both sides of the fence. I think perhaps last night the CO went too far in justifying himself (handbrushing as PDA) though I really wasn't paying attention to the conversation before the BE. Obviously lines need to be drawn in the sand regarding what is a blatant disrespect of authority in a rebellion-plagued sector bordered by a politically hostile superpower, and what is essentially hooliganism.

And frankly, I think some people SERIOUSLY need to stop taking this dumb sprite game seriously. Stop investing your ego into your guy and his situations. Stop getting mad when you get slapped for talking shit. Yes, death is serious innreellyfe, but it can add an appropriate level of corny drama in a casual videogame setting. Sometimes there are bad guys. Sometimes those bad guys are your bosses. Sometimes the whole system you rely on is essentially against you, and sees you as much a liability as an asset. Sometimes those systems recruit not-so-savory individuals because they're in a desperate slump. We're not in the stable 21st century US Marine Corps here, we're in the dim, dystopian conglomerate-ruled hellhole during an active anarcho-popilist revolution and the equivalent of a Cuban Missile Crisis in space.

Why would you want this to end because you can't call the CO a condom to his face without risking your little pixel guy getting his head blown off?

EDIT:

You know what I think? I think we need a new method of punishment. One OOCly below arrest, permabrigging, execution, and BE. I think certain ranks need the right to use public physical punishment of some sort as a method of dealing with things that would otherwise be dealt with in boring (brig) or controversial (BE) ways. The commander has a Chain of Command, and is not legally allowed to use it. SLs can threaten a smackdown on unruly boots all they want, but it could easily result in charges if carried through.

Currently there are two methods to deal with a blatantly disrespectful marine:

1. A few minutes in timeout.

2. Death.

Obviously some sort of ICly harsh but OOCly trivial method of punishment is needed to bridge the gap. I think the whip is an obvious one, and since fists are intentionally nerfed to not leave lasting damage, perhaps give the SL and some other choice individuals higher melee skills and REASONABLE!!! exemptions from marine law in order to physically assert their authority in a lawful manner? It would be a lot less boring and whiny than the current system of run off from the MPs and cry for help because you called the CO a dummy.

[Heckenshutze]

Wouldn't be fun if we had a server where players regulate themselves? And mods being there only to deal with really fucked up shit that can't be fixed Icly.

For that, we would need, first of all, to stop adding more rules; more rules doesn't mean less shittery.

Second, stop nerfing things that can be fixed by the own players, chem abusing? MP and marine law. Research abuse? MP and marine law (or admin intervention for WY to drop in) CO power abuse? Mutiny. In fact, MP's should deal with shitty COs because NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

Almost all of these can be fixed with players. (MP's). Only thing we lack is PLAYERS WANTING TO DO THINGS BY THEMSELVES, instead they cry to the staff for some fix, like kids crying to their parents; makes me sick.

Same thing goes with xenos, if a xeno is being shit you, as Queen, de evolve that motherfucker for the rest of its lifespan.. really, we have the tools to be self regulated.

[Loco52]

Why are people so obsessed with putting more controls on this game?

Marine Law, and the ability to disobey it, IS A GOOD THING.

BEs, and the ability to mutiny after questionable BEs, IS A GOOD THING.

This guy should be president

We should be striving away from staff intervention and cheesy gameplay mechanics to prevent powergaming, shitlery, and murderboning. We have had to make hard compromises in the past with skills, insanity, and synth combat. I don't want BEs and disobeying marine law to join that list.

I'm in love with you

[Lukey111]

snip

Look, a few people did it right? If they just make it bannable, the mods would have a lot of trouble keeping up with them. It is as if you are in a sport "If a player screwed up, the team screwed up".

And after that, seeing other people doing it, more and more people will do it, which results in even more bans to allow people to play. To combat this, they add mechanics so thoughs people would not get banned for a minor reason. Just SO MANY PEOPLE abuse their freedoms, taking it from everyone else.

I'll make a more depth post tomorrow

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Wow, its almost like you completely stopped reading my statement after the first sentence, you know, the part where I say commanders often take it too far and do it for ridiculous reasons. Good job.

"BEs exist as a method of taking shitlers out of the round in a way that's IC, thus keeping players in line with the unspoken threat of being removed from the round if they're ruining it for others. Unfortunately some commanders are much more ridiculous in the dispensing of the mateba than others so it often ends up being abused. Such as if the CO executed the entire security force over Jones wandering off."

Thats because your first sentence is not how BE's are mostly being used ingame at the moment if that is actually the intended use for them, the second sentence is exactly what is mostly happening ingame at the moment, so why would i address something i already know and thats pretty blatantly obvious to everyone?

Apologizes for not "echo chambering" your second sentence...

[Rohesie]

This is the aeons old serious-atmosphere vs freedom debate between the lovers of higher and lower RP standards. The problem is even the staff is divided here.

I won't enter the debate in profundity and merely recommend that if you want to enforce a serious atmosphere you should start by setting the example. Admemery is high here, from the talking cat sexually molested by Heinz to pizza deliveries, it's practically impossible preventing players from meme'ing if the administration is doing that. Every single Admiral I've seen visiting the Almayer seemed designed to give you the sense of being under the rule of an armed monkey. And not in a very HRP way, mind you.

Make a choice. Memery can be really fun. People disrespecting the commander? You better flee to the battlefield and hope you don't get caught if you need medical treatment, or you are gonna get some gulag-time. Serious RP can also be really fun: people acting as if they were actually not armed kids on a sugar rush. Every style has its benefits. But if you try to find a middle-term prepare to have discontent supporters of each side. It's unavoidable.

[solidfury7]

I personally think that the best way to deal with people trying to meme the CO or cause issue is to tweak MPs.

A lot of the times I've BE'D someone, I would of prefered the MP's deal with it.

However they're either few and far between or they're woefully incompetent.

Battlefield executions are simply a symptom of a larger issue.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Why are people so obsessed with putting more controls on this game?

Why anyone here wants MORE staff intervention in a server that deftly avoids the need for staff intervention necessary in other medium-RP servers is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder if the BE-haters are the kind that want to be shitlers without consequence, or the kind that want staff/mechanic intervention to the be ultimate decider in any situation where marines aren't being perfect little soldiers.

We should be striving away from staff intervention and cheesy gameplay mechanics to prevent powergaming, shitlery, and murderboning. We have had to make hard compromises in the past with skills, insanity, and synth combat. I don't want BEs and disobeying marine law to join that list.

I know i havnt, and i also havnt seen anyone directly say in this thread that they want this resolved under the name of more admin intervention IC or OOC, you are the only one to bring that up as a solution, no one else.

And frankly, I think some people SERIOUSLY need to stop taking this dumb sprite game seriously.

Some people have and always will play a game, or this game, more seriously than others, theres nothing wrong with that.How about you stop telling people how to go about playing the game, if they are doing everything by the books IC and OOC, who are you to tell them not to be more serious ingame than you are?

For that, we would need, first of all, to stop adding more rules; more rules doesn't mean less shittery.

Second, stop nerfing things that can be fixed by the own players, chem abusing? MP and marine law. Research abuse? MP and marine law (or admin intervention for WY to drop in) CO power abuse? Mutiny. In fact, MP's should deal with shitty COs because NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

Almost all of these can be fixed with players. (MP's). Only thing we lack is PLAYERS WANTING TO DO THINGS BY THEMSELVES, instead they cry to the staff for some fix, like kids crying to their parents; makes me sick.

Your both right and wrong on this i believe, as rules absolutely do prevent less bullshit, hence the implementation of any at all to begin with...as then its classed as a OOC matter and not a IC, whether more are needed, thats up to the admins to decide.

This is where i think your right, the MP's have alot of power ingame and basically are the IC regulator for all factors.MP's generally dont do anything about a silly BE, MP's have the ability to let a person off IC even if they have infact committed a offence, MP's can wrongly arrest with no justification, MP's dont always prevent or dissolve a mutiny, sometimes easily done.As far as ive read, theres nothing actually forcing WO/MP's to even do their job to the standard the ship needs to be this IC regulator you and others speak of, hence alot of times than not, resulting in a MP force that might as well not be even on the ship.

Again, i havnt seen anyone in this thread directly say that admins should intervene more than they already do, just you.

The solution to this BE issue, if not the BE laws rewritten to address it as the Host of the game started he was just before, is the MP's themselves as you mentioned.

Infact, the biggest and most important goal the WO/MP's can ever achieve IC, is preventing a mutiny, not ass kissing the CO's authority over the marines.If that means brigging the CO/XO over BE'ing or attempting to BE a marine that could of been simply brigged for their offenses, which is more suited to the crime at hand.Then thats exactly what they should do, but do you even see that? The answer is almost always, no.

Ive never played WO, but i assume that if you were to arrest the CO, you would most likely have a bwoik incoming asking why exactly.Where as if your a CO, BE a marine for petty crimes and cause a mutiny because of, you dont get bwoiked as it seems to be the case.

For some reason(main factor being the open threat of being executed for anything, at anytime as a marine) the WO/MP's respect the CO/XO authority moreso than the marines, even though they are a separate entity not controlled by the CO, yet the marines are.Totally backwards if you ask me.

Admemery is high here, from the talking cat sexually molested by Heinz to pizza deliveries, it's practically impossible preventing players from meme'ing if the administration is doing that.

Thats what i observe too, ive seen admins ask that the players dont do that or dont say this, most recent was asking the xenoes not to "congo-line" as they were classing it as low RP, however they kind of encourage this exact kind of behavior with their own.I honestly dont think i could say this is a low, medium or high RP server, as you seem to see all types of RP in one place.If thats whats desired, then i have no problem with that as its clearly not my server, but admins then complaining about it whilst having it this way? How ironic.

[davidofmk771]

1. Many people have brought up BE rule changes, which implies that staff intervention will be used in lieu, unless you TRULY believe that marines should simply be able to disrespect and disobey their commanding officer with no real consequences.

2. I am not telling people to stop playing serious characters. I am telling you to stop acting as if this affects anything in real life, as if you are personally attacked because you didn't get to do what you want without getting punished by somebody who isn't a staff member.

If you get angry over this or any other videogame, you need to SERIOUSLY reevaluate how you see the world because that's a one way ticket to health issues if you play games often. Anger will fuck you up as you get older, ESPECIALLY over trivial crap like this game.

3. The job of the MPs and CMP was NEVER to undermine the commander's authority when no law has been broken. If we allow that to happen (without confirmation from high command i.e. staff) the entire system is liable to break down during every other round. This part isn't even about BEs. Lets say a commander RPs as an out of touch glory hog and sends his soldiers to die horribly out of some mangled sense of duty and honor. There is nothing illegal about that, but it will piss a lot of marines off. Why should the commander have to worry about being brigged without any HC input to placate those marines?

The MPs jobs is not to make sure the marines don't throw any tantrums, its to stop them and punish them when they do. We need to stop with this 'tip-toe around the lawbreaking marines' shit, and I think the low-IC but high-OOCly harsh brigging (IC its just timeout, OOC you're missing a good chunk of the round for anything serious) being the only punishment besides death hurts that.

Believe it or not, not all MPs are super happy to throw people out of the round for so long, they HAVE TO. Otherwise the entire job is meaningless, and may as well be removed and replaced with the old system (IIRC) of simply banning anyone who breaks what is currently considered marine law.
I'm simply suggesting that adding an OOCly (James Cameron had the entire cast of Aliens read Starship Troopers) and ICly (we already have executions and such, is other corporal punishment really that far-fetched?) sensible punishment in the forms of casual squad-level beatings and, if taken that far, MP organized and possibly public floggings.

It would allow people to still play the game once its all over and settled, and would add a whole lot more drama in a game which is severely lacking thanks to all the don't-make-anyone-mad tiptoeing we have to deal with. Maybe it would be bumpy in the start, but if the community really cant handle their little sprite guy getting beat down (with vanishingly little IC consequence) for casually disrespecting the people who just so happened to roll a higher rank, perhaps more staff intervention IS the solution.

This is where i think your right, the MP's have alot of power ingame and basically are the IC regulator for all factors.MP's generally dont do anything about a silly BE, MP's have the ability to let a person off IC even if they have infact committed a offence, MP's can wrongly arrest with no justification, MP's dont always prevent or dissolve a mutiny, sometimes easily done.As far as ive read, theres nothing actually forcing WO/MP's to even do their job to the standard the ship needs to be this IC regulator you and others speak of, hence alot of times than not, resulting in a MP force that might as well not be even on the ship.

Again, i havnt seen anyone in this thread directly say that admins should intervene more than they already do, just you.

You know, I somehow missed this, but my god.

1. MPs are NOT allowed to let people off who are guilty, that can get you a job-ban. MPs are NOT allowed to arrest people without justification (either a known lawbreak or officer's orders are entirely enough), that will get you job-banned. MPs, however, DO NOT have to play nice with marines who are disrespecting their officers and even mutinying during a CLF revolution and UPP border conflict. There is a LOT ensuring that MPs do their jobs correctly, just because you don't perceive it for whatever reason does not mean it isn't there.

2. You just responded to two different posters accusing them of talking about things nobody has brought up in this thread.

[Bancrose]

Interesting read to say the least.

But @BladeBr I explicitly remember that round and I explicitly remember being told that they didn't care if I executed the prisoners as they were enemy combatants. so I am not entirely sure how you would have arrested me as Jerkface has stated this before. And to think I'd ever let some commie walk alive on my ship alive would be LowRP as fuck for Heinz.

But uh yeah some BE's as of lately have been a bit questionable, Alot of you have made very logical points regarding it. If its something that you losing sleep over or bothers you could just make an official thread for it in the suggestions.

[Ghostdex]

I personally think that the best way to deal with people trying to meme the CO or cause issue is to tweak MPs.

A lot of the times I've BE'D someone, I would of prefered the MP's deal with it.

However they're either few and far between or they're woefully incompetent.

Battlefield executions are simply a symptom of a larger issue.

I pretty much agree with this fully, more than half of the situations in which I watch someone get BE'd could have been resolved by MPs but like Crimson said, it's somewhat hard to get MPs to deal with said situations at times.

And yeah, I do believe there is an issue that needs sorted.

[WinterClould]

Our MPs are all so soft and so green that the moment anything and I mean ANYTHING happens they act in the worst ways possible. Over punishing small things they actually catch and completely breaking down and failing when they get caught out by anyone slightly robust or a situation slightly more complicated then literally watching someone commit the crime alone. It's kinda stupid how our MPs can't do even the slightest most basic police work that any normal cop or MP could handle with ease. I know our actual players aren't trained like real cops are, but ours don't even try.

This why we still need to have the BE. MPs refuse to be useful while marines still refuse to not be shitters as well. Problem is that COs using their BEs like dipshits as well so the whole damn thing breaks down and is dumb as fuck.

[DriedMilk]

Or you could just not disrespect or meme the CO...

If you're expecting RP from insulting the CO mid-briefing then you're in for a bad time as you will either get your head blown off or brigged.

Don't get mad OOCly over something you could've prevented.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Ohh goodie, your my kind of guy, i could play with you for days, just for fun, ill do this in backwards quotes.Just so you know, im only replying to all this as you seemed to put some effort in.

2. You just responded to two different posters accusing them of talking about things nobody has brought up in this thread.

Ive accused two people of talking about something no one in this thread has talked about? Quote me, show me then.

1. MPs are NOT allowed to let people off who are guilty, that can get you a job-ban. MPs are NOT allowed to arrest people without justification (either a known lawbreak or officer's orders are entirely enough), that will get you job-banned. MPs, however, DO NOT have to play nice with marines who are disrespecting their officers and even mutinying during a CLF revolution and UPP border conflict. There is a LOT ensuring that MPs do their jobs correctly, just because you don't perceive it for whatever reason does not mean it isn't there.

MP's having the possibility of letting someone off was just one example i mentioned, whats meant to happen IC, and what does are two completely different things.I agree, they shouldnt play nice and i didnt even mention that they should either, so exactly how am i perceiving it thats so different from your view of things? I was making the point that the MP's have a opportunity to stop a possible mutiny by preventing a BE of a petty crime, which they do.Is that not correct?

3. The job of the MPs and CMP was NEVER to undermine the commander's authority when no law has been broken. If we allow that to happen (without confirmation from high command i.e. staff) the entire system is liable to break down during every other round. This part isn't even about BEs. Lets say a commander RPs as an out of touch glory hog and sends his soldiers to die horribly out of some mangled sense of duty and honor. There is nothing illegal about that, but it will piss a lot of marines off. Why should the commander have to worry about being brigged without any HC input to placate those marines?

The MPs jobs is not to make sure the marines don't throw any tantrums, its to stop them and punish them when they do. We need to stop with this 'tip-toe around the lawbreaking marines' shit, and I think the low-IC but high-OOCly harsh brigging (IC its just timeout, OOC you're missing a good chunk of the round for anything serious) being the only punishment besides death hurts that.

Believe it or not, not all MPs are super happy to throw people out of the round for so long, they HAVE TO. Otherwise the entire job is meaningless, and may as well be removed and replaced with the old system (IIRC) of simply banning anyone who breaks what is currently considered marine law.
I'm simply suggesting that adding an OOCly (James Cameron had the entire cast of Aliens read Starship Troopers) and ICly (we already have executions and such, is other corporal punishment really that far-fetched?) sensible punishment in the forms of casual squad-level beatings and, if taken that far, MP organized and possibly public floggings.

It would allow people to still play the game once its all over and settled, and would add a whole lot more drama in a game which is severely lacking thanks to all the don't-make-anyone-mad tiptoeing we have to deal with. Maybe it would be bumpy in the start, but if the community really cant handle their little sprite guy getting beat down (with vanishingly little IC consequence) for casually disrespecting the people who just so happened to roll a higher rank, perhaps more staff intervention IS the solution.

I never suggested MP's should undermine the CO authority.With your example, your right, as it is there is nothing illegal with that at all.That exact example happens quite alot and i dare say thats why you used it.Again, im not suggesting the CO shouldnt be able to control his men even if the cause might be from his actions, your for some reason using a example as you said yourself, "This part isn't even about BEs", when the reasoning for BE's is the exact thing im debating here.

Im also not debating the brig times of offences, or whether MP's are happy throwing someone in for which ever brig time it may be.Public/squad floggings is a very interesting idea over someone being BE'd and removed from the round for maybe just talking smack over comms or in person, but that would be another factor the MP's would have to deal with if it was to get out of hand.Still a interesting idea though and im glad you mentioned it actually.

2. I am not telling people to stop playing serious characters. I am telling you to stop acting as if this affects anything in real life, as if you are personally attacked because you didn't get to do what you want without getting punished by somebody who isn't a staff member.

If you get angry over this or any other videogame, you need to SERIOUSLY reevaluate how you see the world because that's a one way ticket to health issues if you play games often. Anger will fuck you up as you get older, ESPECIALLY over trivial crap like this game.

Errr, kinda think you did bud :

And frankly, I think some people SERIOUSLY need to stop taking this dumb sprite game seriously. Stop investing your ego into your guy and his situations.

Its pretty simple, you take the game somewhat serious, your character will be somewhat serious, if you play the game not giving a fuck.Your character doesnt really give a fuck.Try not doing that, its almost impossible, like trying not to put food into your mouth.Next round you play, try taking that game round with some sort of seriousness whilst playing a character that doesnt really care, see how you go with that and get back to me.Your character reflects alot of your current mood in game, you can easily spot when someone is irritated ingame.I guarantee you they are sitting at their computer actually irritated in real life.

And also, if i may, be frank.Im getting more "seriousness" out of your post and replies than i invest into some of my characters.Especially when you capitalize some phrases to emphasize them like your yelling at me.Good try, sadly it doesnt work on me though.

Why exactly are you trying to seemingly lecture me on a thread i responded to, regarding a question asked by the OP, which was, whats my thoughts on BE's? Ive never even been BE'd, so you cant even use that "your salty" tactic that alot of you guys like to pull.You telling me that if im thinking this is effecting real life in a major way somehow, is just silly.Trust me, i dont need your "advice", im really well aware of that already myself mate...do you think your schooling some 13 year old here or something? Are you trying to impress someone perhaps? Maybe you want to get on the staff and want to show your backbone.Im not sure, however you seem to be more invested in this than me.

Did you think my analogy of a kid getting shitty from dying over internet connect was me describing myself? It wasnt, maybe somehow you thought that i was.Cant see how though.

1. Many people have brought up BE rule changes, which implies that staff intervention will be used in lieu, unless you TRULY believe that marines should simply be able to disrespect and disobey their commanding officer with no real consequences.

Yeah well, as you can see i havnt been very active on the forums, so all of them times its been brought up, clearly wasnt me, was it? Ive been playing much more than the time ive spent on the forums, so ive observed much more than i have actually typing out those observations, because thats all they are.Where as you might just be the opposite, where youve spent more time on the forums than you have actually observing ingame and possibly basing your opinion on that, am i wrong?
Obviously you know of all these previous discussions or calls for BE rule changes, so they must have all been about staff intervention, you tell me, you should clearly know.Implies in the sense that everyone in the discussion was directly asking for BE rule changes, or just the simple fact that they even made a BE discussion thread like this one, your instantly assuming for some reason that it implies staff intervention should be more common? Because if its the latter, then thats just you making a assumption, and not based on whats actually being said in the discussion.

And just incase you hadnt got it from the last few times, i dont think the commander should be able to be disrespected and get away with it, they should be brigged clearly.Also again, i dont think the commander should be able to execute marines just for that kind of reasoning either, its too petty in my opinion.

By now, i think you should understand the observations i was trying to get across, if not.Well, its just a game, it doesnt even matter, does it?

Fun fact for you, and i really didnt think i would even see something like this.I got out of round earlier today, during the round there was a admiral onboard the ship, how exciting! He ended up executing a doctor for talking abit of smack over the comms.Not directly at the admiral mind you, nevertheless, he blew his brains out.

So on that note, especially after ive already stated my observations on this multiple times now, im done talking about BE's, as if ive now seen a admiral do exactly what i was protesting against a commander doing, i think i have my answer.

Ive been told admirals are "meant" to be "memey".Youve got that right, sheesh.

[x31stOverlord]

Curiously enough. I've never been BE'd.

How?

By not being memetier levels of provocative in front of the CO. Don't want to get BE'd? Don't punch the CO in briefing in front of everyone or insult them. Don't try to undermine their authority and you won't get BE'd.

The BE is only controversial to those who try to piss around and take this piss with their actions IC. Much like the people who complain about being brigged for them comitting a crime.

The bottom line is. Don't be a shitter infront of a CO and try to bait a reaction and you won't get BE'd

/thread