New Castes Discussion Thread

[TheDonkified]

All of the frontline castes are pretty fun.

Defender is fun if you don't want to die (unless you go full retard) and warrior is fun if you want to cheese people in small spaces. Prae is fun if you want to cheese a bunch of people in any place with the low CD low plasma cost acid spray. With prae though, you are probably most effect in tight area where people will be cramped.

[misto]

because now there is a non-glass t1, many of the people who usually laid a death tax on the xenos by dying as young runners are surviving to keep fighting as defenders. coupled with the interest generated by shiny new content, this is resulting in higher xeno player counts on average.

and we're still getting free latejoin larva!

a queen ordered us to kill infected humans last round because it just doesnt matter anymore

[TheDonkified]

Yeah, it doesn't matter. Xeno offers you maximum level of blood lust with minimal risk. It's great.

[Retrokinesis]

There are three things I've noticed with how xeno playstyles seem to have changed with the introduction of the new castes:

1. The Queen does a lot less fighting. They're willing to launch assaults without waiting for her to charge all the way there and lead with a Screech. The praetorian can also double for Screech with acid spit.
2. There are way more xenos. Possibly because there are more people playing xeno/joining as larva later, but also because defenders and warriors are super tanky and just not dying as early or as much.
3. They're way more aggressive than they used to be. Defenders especially will be in good fighting shape by the time the marines land and I've seen them push people back to the LZ basically immediately.

The latter two in combination also seems to have made capturing hosts a much lower priority; I have been slashed to death every single time, even I was totally helpless and near a nest.

[Nyeshivuu]

IMO it is much more fun to be losing as a xeno, i always get bummed out when we steamroll the marines because it isn't fun. Now since the update that is every round as a xeno and i just feel obsolete if i am anything but defender or warrior.

[Slagathor]

The xenos are waaaaaay OP now. Rounds when Alamo is hijacked with 60 xenos is not an exception anymore. Ridiculous.

1. Defenders are Elite when the marines arrive on the planet. Why the caste Defender? And why T1?
2. Flamers are nerfed to the point it is no longer a weapon but more like a wooden stick.
3. Xenos are OP. Some are walking fortresses.
4. The Longstreet tank is not very useful, except for cleaning out FOB barricades.

My suggestions:

* Throw out Defender caste (or make it a T3). Maybe make it susceptible to fire?!
* Buff the flamers again to the point it is a viable weapon.
* Nerf the upgrade system of the xenos. It should take a bit longer for them to upgrade.
* It would be fun if marines could hop on the tank and shoot from that position.

Thanks for reading!

Grtz!
Detourjazz a.k.a. Slagathor

[Recounted]

Defenders NEED to be T2 so there isn't as many there are now. Praes honestly need a shorter spit range

[Loco52]

Defenders NEED to be T2 so there isn't as many there are now. Praes honestly need a shorter spit range

Prae has 3 tiles of acid spit that takes over 6 seconds of cooldown and gets a speed reduction after spitting now. Nerf hit hard, I played prae today and it's a whole lot different than before when you could acid spatter everywhere everytime everysecond

[Gnorse]

Prae has 3 tiles of acid spit that takes over 6 seconds of cooldown and gets a speed reduction after spitting now. Nerf hit hard, I played prae today and it's a whole lot different than before when you could acid spatter everywhere everytime everysecond

you're still able to stun lock, however, since by the time the acid starts disappearing, you're ready to spray again

[MattAtlas]

I do not think the castes themselves are the problem.

The problem is that there is an incredible amount of xenos at every single time. Go look at how hard it is to roll roundstart xeno now vs before the xeno update. Go look at how many burrowed larvas there are per round (spoilers: it's always less than 5 because every single larva is taken). We're reaching levels of SIXTY XENOS per 140 marines, do you guys have any idea how many xenos that is? It's not the individual castes that make xenomorphs overpowered, it's the number of people playing them.

[spookydonut]

you're still able to stun lock, however, since by the time the acid starts disappearing, you're ready to spray again

You can't guarentee a stun lock as the acid duration is random and less than the cooldown of spray

[Rohesie]

I do not think the castes themselves are the problem.

The problem is that there is an incredible amount of xenos at every single time. Go look at how hard it is to roll roundstart xeno now vs before the xeno update. Go look at how many burrowed larvas there are per round (spoilers: it's always less than 5 because every single larva is taken). We're reaching levels of SIXTY XENOS per 140 marines, do you guys have any idea how many xenos that is? It's not the individual castes that make xenomorphs overpowered, it's the number of people playing them.

While I agree that the number of xenos is also an issue, I don't feel like it's all there is to it. The meta has shifted, and close range fighting is no longer viable. I point-blank slugged four times with a BC shotty an Elite Defender (it takes no time to get to Elite) until its disarm + slashes got the better of me. Slugged a Mature Defeder twice with the Mk221 while a MP next to me landed two more shots. Not only it didn't go down, but the stun times were also negligible, like those a synth or predator. Not sure if pheromones were involved, if it was a bug because the xeno was moving each time it got shot, or if it was just terrible RNG luck.

I could hold my own against most xenos with a BC+buckshot shotty, but the Defender/Warrior combo have rendered that impossible. A warrior can easily tank more than two shots until it grabs you, and the defender can tank even more. As a Runner/Hunter I had to be careful when sneaking on survivors. Now as Defender/Warrior I have to be incredibly reckless to die to them.

If there's a stalemate and marines are holding cades you'll always see defenders in range dancing and tanking shots just for the giggles.

[misto]

I do not think the castes themselves are the problem.

The problem is that there is an incredible amount of xenos at every single time.

uh, these are obviously linked issues? as in, one is causing the other? as in, there are a lot more xenos because theres now a t1 melee option in the defender that is tanky as fuck instead of the paper runners that would die in droves? so they stay alive more, meaning more overall xenos?

[MattAtlas]

uh, these are obviously linked issues? as in, one is causing the other? as in, there are a lot more xenos because theres now a t1 melee option in the defender that is tanky as fuck instead of the paper runners that would die in droves? so they stay alive more, meaning more overall xenos?

Good point.

I've experienced Warrior a bit more now and I think defenders are fine-- I've killed a handful of them. You just can't kill them in 1v1, but you can't kill any caste that isn't a drone in 1v1.

The main issue with Warriors atm is the infinite stunlock that throws cause. You can just ctrl click some guy in the frontline, toss him into the hive and out he goes. Best part is you can do that in agility mode too.

Praetorian acid cone is self explainatory. At the moment it's an ability that can singlehandedly hold off an entire chokepoint should the Praetorian be decent at their job. To be honest I wouldn't have a problem with it if the acid faded before you got up.

[ghost120]

I've experienced Warrior a bit more now and I think defenders are fine-- I've killed a handful of them. You just can't kill them in 1v1, but you can't kill any caste that isn't a drone in 1v1.

You're wrong. Drones and their 100% tackle can be your worst enemy as well as their ability to carry a hugger. Also, shotgun+buckshot>runner/lurker, but really it all depends on how good you are and how good is your opponent.

Also, Warriors are shit, no one likes them, grip+throw, the end.

[Loco52]

you're still able to stun lock, however, since by the time the acid starts disappearing, you're ready to spray again

Nope, every time I see nerfs I start counting seconds. Its about 10 seconds from one acid spit to the other, and once acid disappears completely you still have to wait for 2 or 3 seconds to acid again. Before the nerf you could, tho. I loved prae cuz of the op stunlock.. poor rines.

[Royal Griffon]

Defenders need to be buckshotted or slugged down (mainly just for the stun locking), a tactical is recommended, and someone with AP rounds and a pulse rifle
Warriors I find are somewhat weak to slug rounds, however they don't have really any other weakness, I mean not even AP does that much

[Royal Griffon]

Also Lurkers, dear god, they got a damage boost to hell and back, don't let them reach ancient
EVER
They will 3 hit any barricade even if it's barbed or plasteel
And they take jackshit in damage from barbed wires if they do hit a wired cade, they ain't bullet proof, but they can pack a punch to make even preds fear if they are allowed to be ancient
Basically if an ancient one tackles you, just say your location, cause you're dead in 8 hits or less and they can do all those hits in 5 seconds or less

[Butlerblock]

Also Lurkers, dear god, they got a damage boost to hell and back, don't let them reach ancient
EVER
They will 3 hit any barricade even if it's barbed or plasteel
And they take jackshit in damage from barbed wires if they do hit a wired cade, they ain't bullet proof, but they can pack a punch to make even preds fear if they are allowed to be ancient
Basically if an ancient one tackles you, just say your location, cause you're dead in 8 hits or less and they can do all those hits in 5 seconds or less

Normal barricade is 5 hits as ancient hunter. Also 8 hits was always the default slash minimum to kill someone as ancient hunter, especially if you're targeting groin.

[Royal Griffon]

Normal barricade is 5 hits as ancient hunter. Also 8 hits was always the default slash minimum to kill someone as ancient hunter, especially if you're targeting groin.

Not when I got ancient lurker, I was taking down full health cades in 3 hits I joked about it and started to annoy the LZ1 by destroying their cades and pouncing away before they could do anything

[zoboomafoo]

I'm going to try out a marine tactic after watching how warriors play for the last several days. I'll get back to this thread after I test it out some.

[MattAtlas]

You're wrong. Drones and their 100% tackle can be your worst enemy as well as their ability to carry a hugger. Also, shotgun+buckshot>runner/lurker, but really it all depends on how good you are and how good is your opponent.

Also, Warriors are shit, no one likes them, grip+throw, the end.

Let's be honest, most drones won't know how to combat facehug or frenzy tackle.

[ghost120]

Let's be honest, most drones won't know how to combat facehug or frenzy tackle.

That too.

[Tony Lotrick]

Here comes my experience, it will be not short.
1). First of all. Praetorians.
You know, there was a time when they did not have a stun locking gaser spit. Not like they was in need for one. But some boilers players was very salty, that if some marine were charge at them, they will die, because they are fucking artillery, which is always requiers some cover. In xeno case, it was others xenos. But they LOVED to run off to frontlines, to spit their shitty gaser of acid on marines. They run, they die by marines fire and then they get a stungaser to defend themself. It was fine, it was still not the best offensive weapon and everyone was happy.
And now we get a new Praetorians. You know. Of course praetorians always were weak caste so they got a little buff on HP and speed. Thats nice, but most importantly they got a shotty. Thats right, stunlocking shotgun (six tiles) for 5 seconds (death sentence for marine) if you ask why, the answer is obvious. They need it for self defence just like boilers and totaly not for bald charge into Alamo stunlock everyone inside and enjoy yourself. Devs can just remove freaking STUN, increase initial damage from that xenoshotgun and it will be good. But you know, better increase plasma cost.
2). Warriors.
Firstly, forget about hunters, they are stinky. True hunters are the warriors. Somebody will tell you that you belong to the frontlines, tell them to fuck off. You belong to VENTS. Dont you feel that ancient runner speed in your legs? Somebody will tell you, your main strenght is bone breaking punch. No, your main strenght is SPEED and TACKLE, you dont need to punch anything, 4 legs mode+ tackle+ harm you are next evolution of ancient runner. And do you not want to see that despair on alone marine face? Crawl out of vents, run for that fucker, extra points of salt if you just PULL him, and devour. That sweet taste of salt in your belly. And of course do not bring him to the hive, just let him suffer forever here and cry on squad channel. Seriously, whats wrong with that speed of warriors and why they can fit in the vents? And for marines, shotgun with slugs works against them just fine.
3). Defenders.
They are just joke. They does not fear anything and extremly agressive. They will not stop, they will not rest, they will just run to you to type *dab and knock off you into hive lines. They are T1 which means you will face shitton of them. And they are belong to fucking T2.

[Gnorse]

So I just saw a single young warrior stunlock 3 people by using grab to stun and then throw them back into the caves.
Three people at the same time, mind you. Just kept juggling between them. It was insane.