New Castes Discussion Thread

[Solarmare]

May as well have one up for this as it affects both sides on the server. As it's a new addition balance changes are expected but feel free to place opinions specifically ar9und them here. What role they fill or do that xenomorphs couldn't specifically beforrhand, I feel like it's worth gathering thoughts on them here. As always remain productive or respectful to everyone as complaining just makes things worse for everyone.

What they can do or allow for xeno strategy is worth mentioning, current state doesn't matter too much as that is something that can be changed. It's easy enough for everyone to just say they're too strong and leave it at that, so detail on the matter is appreciated.

[Nyeshivuu]

There are at least 10 benos that become defender every round

[TheMusician321]

instant bone break is too OP in my opinion, have it be RNG or just do more damage instead of click *breaks your chest*

Defender also has waaaay too much health

[TicTac]

Xenos with the ability to chain stun w/ no reprocussions and Tier 1s that can take shotgun shells to the face. The power creep feels like it's in full effect here, the new xenos have 4-5 abilities each, compare that to the hunter, w/ 2. That and the sprites are difficult to tell apart, when I see a praetorian I have to spend 4-5 seconds trying to figure out what I'm looking at before it does it's acid spit that's a guaranteed stun on everything within 4 tiles of it. It feels like they overloaded the xenos with features while taking away strengths from the marines.

[ThatKazakhDude]

Let's just hope they will create a heavy tank one day, or create another way for marines to counter xenos' nee castes

[Tony Lotrick]

[Taumanta1]

Benos OP, pls nerf

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

Overall good changes, benos went from easy roflstomp bait to actually putting up a fight for once. I for one am enjoying the challenge.

[Retrokinesis]

I think marines have won a grand total of once since the update. This isn't a challenge anymore, it's suicide. You can't even stick with shipside roles because the hijack comes so early now.

[Madventurer]

The new sprites are ugly. Defender looks like a caricature of xeno/medieval knight crossbreed.

And oh sweet God-Emperor of Mankind, why is Defender a thing?
I played exactly one round as a defender before concluding that it's ridiculous. You become Elite before the marines show up, Ancient not long after that, and then you can just walz around the battlefield with your Crusher health pool and leisurely try to tackle marines desperately trying to run from your good-but-not-godlike speed.

Plus, you're pretty much immune to bullets when you fortify, unless you're completely surrounded (the FF). What.

[Nyeshivuu]

Hunter used to be my favorite caste, now it just isn't viable anymore. The hunter is called a front line combatant but that is a complete lie, i've always found it sucked ass on the front lines and it was more suited for causing chaos in enemy territory. But with this update it has gotten worse at that, it's sprite is big and some of it's colors clash with most backgrounds so most things you cannot camoflauge on, this wasn't as big as a problem before the update because it's sprite was 1 tile big. The hunter, or lurker should be a dedicated stealth caste and not some awkward T2 transitory caste. The runner isn't even fast anymore. Another problem is with the tank, the bullets on one of the weapons are so slow you can outrun them as a xeno. It is also a bit clunky. I play marine a lot more than i play xeno and if losing is fun instead of a roflstomp then i do not care if i lose. A recent round was enjoyable for me at least, but we had already lost tcomms by 12:50 and we had to evac at 13:10 because the aliens had taken over. When we were fighting them off while retreating a whole wave of defenders came at us, we fought until 13:10 when they were taking lz1 and we made a short last stand a cic before the wave of defenders and op prae sprayers came at us. The game as it is, is a tad bit unbalanced. This is expected with every big update so do not freak out.

[Sargash]

I feel defenders need to be pushed in the other direction. They've got too much health, and not enough armor, it should be the other way. Make them more susceptible to fire (Can we just buff that all around, it's been nerfed to the point it's pretty much useless.) and perhaps, if possible, maybe make their armor/crest reduce plasma based on the damage they take. And if they run out of plasma they get stunned for a second or two.

[caleeb101]

I feel defenders need to be pushed in the other direction. They've got too much health, and not enough armor, it should be the other way. Make them more susceptible to fire (Can we just buff that all around, it's been nerfed to the point it's pretty much useless.) and perhaps, if possible, maybe make their armor/crest reduce plasma based on the damage they take. And if they run out of plasma they get stunned for a second or two.

This is a bit of a harsh nerf in my opinion. Just reduce their health. Their armor is pretty good as it is. Stand a fair distance away at mature+ and watch as you deflect more bullets than a Crusher could ever wish.

[Twizz]

This is a bit of a harsh nerf in my opinion. Just reduce their health. Their armor is pretty good as it is. Stand a fair distance away at mature+ and watch as you deflect more bullets than a Crusher could ever wish.

That. That is a problem, a T1 shouldn't be able to do the job of a T3 better. The Crusher is supposed to be a Tank which if you get in its way, it is your fault and your doom because you didnt step out of its line in time, then you get the expected punishment by it stomping on your chest. The Defender in turn can just paincrit you with 3-4 tailswipes when mature which have about of a 5 or 3 second cooldown, tank almost as much as a crusher, take two LTB-Cannon shots to the face and get ran over multiple times and run away, i mean come on they should atleast have plasma drained with each bullet that hits their crest or fortified status, just translate the dmg to health to damage to plasma. After running away they then stunlock a marine because at the time when it headbutted the marine, its tail swipe is viable again. Or how i had the fate, have 3Defenders gang up on you because theres so many every single round and continously tail-swipe you untill you're almost dead right to the nest, then nest you and you have no chance to do anything against it because it instantly knocks you down. Now onto the Hunter (Lurker) from this change, the Hunter (Lurker) was even back with his old sprite barely stealthy, the weird dots on his back, stripes on his head and the like were visible on any background there is and was, the new sprite just makes him a major target so in my opinion either they should get a different ability or get a higher cloak value the older they get, their current cloak at young, a slightly more invis at Mature and so on, then scout/pred-tier cloak at Ancient or something like that because it does take quite a while to get to anicent and only 2 - 3 out of 15 (Lurkers) Hunters made it that far before the change every round. Onto the Warrior, they're just Pred killing machines. They lounge at a pred, rip their arm off, bait em around, lounge again, rip off the second arm and boom you have a basically dead predator without arms which cant do anything or a potential victim for a Abomination if theres a Drone and eggs nearby. Second off, a One-punch which breaks bones if it connects is WAY to powerfull. If you dont have a medic nearby or dont have the time to find a medic, broken bones can give you IB and popped lungs way too easily when walking or being dragged, sayd IB and popped lungs (which i can say from personal experience) can take up to 10minutes of surgery if the doc is rather new. Aswell as if Warriors gang up on you they can just chain-break your bones, which happened to me once. I got dragged in a stasis bag back shipside and after Surgery the doctor gave me a screenshot of the medi-hud panel where it sayd all my bones were broken. Sadly i do not have that screenshot anymore. Soo after typing so much i think i'll leave it here, yeah.

[thalamus123]

Currently I've seen (and I have played) as a defender, even young and mature defenders can withstand huge amounts of gun fire, actual fire and AP rounds. I've been hit directly by a rocket and then shot at by 6 marines and escaped still with quarter health as an elite defender which even crushers couldn't do before this update.

For a T1 they are ridiculously over powered and currently are more of a Swiss army knife caste, they have the armour and health of a high level crusher and the damage of a high level runner along with their instant bone break (btw bone break combat is not fun combat it just removes marines from the round instantly and is one of the most hated things about playing marine). Their tail sweep that has a chance to knock down marines seems to have a way too high chance to knock them down.

What I think needs changing is that either they have their health and damage significantly lowered, bone break feature removed or given to a higher caste and then have their slash damage reduced so that they are defensive instead of assaulting. I think the intent was to make them sort of riot police, very high armour protection from the front to protect from boilers and able to stun marines nearby when they charge so that other caste's can pick them off. Currently you go from the first to the final step in just 1 xeno.

I'm not a super big fan of the new sprites, they look like T'rex's with severe back problems, I like the prae and boiler's they look good, however the others blech.
The runner looks kind of like a squished mole which is just not very good, the ravager is duel wielding chef knives? I get wanting it to have big claws but it looks more silly than threatening, the hive lord's pregnant tail looks straight off of core station and the warrior and defenders are just kind of rocky looking. I do like the new hunter, spitter and sentinel sprites although the concerns in previous comments are also issues with them, the art style for those is very nice though.

From what I can see this update was intended to be a rebalance after the release of tanks however, tanks were a lot less useful than I think the coders envisioned especially on prison station and they can easily be swarmed.

It's good the aliens are getting a bit of love they haven't had a caste update in ages however the specs of the defenders/warriors and ease to evolve to them just make it not fun to play against, marine combat shouldn't involve defending the almayer every round and possibly winning.

[Xenomobia]

No way, Xenos are not OP. You just a better organization, you got piro, RPG, b12, you just need more coordination just like a true military force.

[Heckenshutze]

I haven't played the new update and I'm curious about it, I'll try to hop in tonight and give my one-round, one-try, alpha phase, opinion.

[Tony Lotrick]

I'm laughing my ass off today. Its best update ever. Do you ever imagine that we get pretor with flamethrowerstunshotgun? Or maybe horde of T1 crushers that will play TailSweepBall around the colony (The ball is a marine obvious). And ofcours giant BANEBLAAAAAAAAAADE that roaming around the battlefield. everything right now is hillarious ( not for marines of course ). Did i forget anything? Oh yes, luchador machoman warrior(586) that will supplex you and your friends straight to medbay for a new limbs. Everything is so fucking fun and sprites are hillarious as well, did you see that hivelord? It's like one of my Japanese animes.

[Tony Lotrick]

I completlty forgot,warriors on frenzy as fast as elite runner LOL.

[Rohesie]

1) Praes: their acid spray is insane. It affects a cone of up to 9 tiles. That was a very powerful weapon in the hands of Boilers, who are slow and frail, thus not suited to close combat. And it could only spray 5 tiles in a line. Giving Praes that huge spray makes them pure mines of salt.

2) Warriors: currently the best caste around. They are fast, strong and resilient. Grabbing a marine will paralyze them, so arm your sucker punch, get on disarm intent and tackle the marines. Grab them (ctrl+click) so they won't be able to do anything, and now you can turn them into nuggets by removing limbs, or you can devour to infect. If you get in a pinch you can middle-click and break their bone. Don't worry about shots too much, you can easily tank several full buckshot bursts. Only disadvantage is being slow in dragging bodies.

3) Defenders: If you fortify you are immortal, which is okayish because you then can't move. But if you lower your crest you are still a walking fortress and you can move and slash the marines or cades at will. Tail sweep is a very powerful ability and will disrupt the marines nicely. If you get set on fire you shrug off, finish what you were doing, and then go look for weeds to heal again. Not such a big problem. Only disadvantages are poor tackle and being slow in dragging bodies.

[Sulaboy]

No way, Xenos are not OP. You just a better organization, you got piro, RPG, b12, you just need more coordination just like a true military force.

This guy speaks the truth. /s

[thalamus123]

This guy speaks the truth.

I hope that's a joke.

These are people playing a video game not some IRL military force they want to come on here an have fun not follow orders to the letter and stand around for ages, this simply isn't a good enough reason and even well formed defences by experienced players will fall quite easily to this new update.

[SolarMacharius]

This guy speaks the truth.

There is only so much coordination you can do in this game. If the flame weapons, tank, and OB's continue to be underwhelming, which they are at the moment, there is not viable way to counter the aliens. B12 is not an offensive item, and the GL can no longer chain stun. Its hard to coordinate and follow up on stuns anyways since there is thirty plus aliens and defenders are t1 and have a huge health pool. The OB is trash, its damage is terrible.

This happens every time either side starts losing more games then it should. When the xenos were getting obliterated every single day and getting stomped in one hour, they were told to coordinate better. That is not what gave them wins. What gave them wins in the end were the new castes and reworks to old castes. That is how you win in CM, having better tools then the other team and having some semi competent people employ them. I find the constant "lol coordinate better" a very lame and patronizing excuse.

[jusa297]

I hope that's a joke.

These are people playing a video game not some IRL military force they want to come on here an have fun not follow orders to the letter and stand around for ages, this simply isn't a good enough reason and even well formed defences by experienced players will fall quite easily to this new update.

They hated jesus because he told them the truth.

[Park]

One of the many things that I dislike about this update is that xeno have gotten rid of the the lie saying 'oh we're only dragging these bodies to the edge of the map to get rid of their armor lights' and straight up decapping marines with the new warrior caste to make them unable to be defibbed.