Warrior "neck grab"

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

A post regarding a example about the warriors "neck grab", or more rightly "stun lock", which happened just last round.Keep in mind, in battle the attack logs go by quickly, this all happened between 5 to 10 seconds, just to give you a idea of how quickly this all happened and the very fast cooldown or lack of.





Now ive been up against warriors before, and have seen some nasty stuff.Ive seen people talking about the warriors neckgrab and how bogus it is, i hadnt had a bad experience until now.I dont know if this player is using some creative macros or what, but it would explain how this was achieved so quickly.

This warrior neck grabbed(stunlocked) me, three times, and threw me three times after each one.Under 10 seconds.



I saw this in the changelog, and was abit relieved after all the chatter i was seeing about how unfair the warriors ability/s are.However, if this had helped me in this one example at all, then it would of been too late anyhow, because the warrior neck grabbed three different times under 10 seconds, basically RNG didnt even have time to calculate whether i had a chance of escaping or not because of lack of any kind of measurable cooldown.

It was kind of bad enough, yet tolerable in a play ability sense, that the pre sprite update boiler had the crit inducing acid spray.

Now we have, a T1 defender that just soaks up absurd amounts of bullets, boiler still has its good ol acid spray but now compounded by prea's even better cone type acid spray than the boiler and a warrior that can petrify you nearly as good as SPC-096 can.

All this while marines cant even catch a break with any type of explosive doing anything greater than stunning a T1 and watching it get up and ran off almost instantly.

[spookydonut]

Yeah more tweaks are incoming, watching spheretech has revealed a bunch of things we didn't intend or think of doing with the warrior abilities.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Rogey that! Thats all i need to know.

Cheers

[Bronimin]

No one is safe from the dev team nerf squad

[immaspaceninja]

Just played more warrior today and oh boy did i felt dirty running up on people, grabbing them and just throwing them behind me, deeper into my cave filled with benos.
This thing just shouldn't be in the game.

[Szebi]

Feel like xenos more op then the human tank xDD

[ghost120]

Feel like xenos more op then the human tank xDD

Because it is like that. Tank is scarecrow that doesn't work for the most time.

[Rohesie]

I'll be honest here, I have less issues dealing with ravagers than with warriors. Rava charge has a long cooldown, so if they miss it I can chase them with AP and end them, specially if I'm not alone. But warriors can ctrl+click me at any time and it's GG NO RE for me. The stun persists even if someone drags me away or they are slugged. They also feel faster and sturdier, but that's probably just a wrong perception.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

I'll be honest here, I have less issues dealing with ravagers than with warriors. Rava charge has a long cooldown, so if they miss it I can chase them with AP and end them, specially if I'm not alone. But warriors can ctrl+click me at any time and it's GG NO RE for me. The stun persists even if someone drags me away or they are slugged. They also feel faster and sturdier, but that's probably just a wrong perception.

Too right. Rav's are atleast engagable because of the reason you mentioned, which makes them fun to engage.Warriors are not fun to engage.

The thing is, i wouldnt really have a issue with the warrior, defender, prae etc with exactly how they are.Meaning that if you end up engaging one you will most likely die, if.Marines had the same kind of fear inducing capabilities at their disposal.For example, if a T1 or T2 that isnt ancient, a claymore, spec RPG, tank round, live frag on the exact tile the xeno is on, actually gibbed them like they should.Equaling game over for that xeno, just like it would be game over for me with this neck grab stun lock.

The only explosive things that xenos really fear are a well lazed CAS("red dot, ruuun!") and OB("beeping red box! Ruunn for your lives!") and even then some particular xenoes can brush them off(Queen, crusher, ancient T3's)

Right now the best general offensive for either side being, and ive been doing this myself as well actually lately.Is if your a xeno, go defender/warrior, and if your a marine load up a shotgun with your favorite flavor of rounds and spam stun that f*%^$#* xeno bitch motherf$*%#@! right back.Seems to work a treat, especially with supporting marines with rifles/smart gunny and just move in line exterminating like its nazi Germany.The xenoes poop their pink frilly little panties.Haha!

[spookydonut]

Yeah more tweaks are incoming, watching spheretech has revealed a bunch of things we didn't intend or think of doing with the warrior abilities.

[Casany]

Spooky we know the devs are working but sometimes (ahem, most of the time) it feels like they really don’t care.

Having been here for almost two years I can say reliably that every experience I’ve had with a dev has led me more to believe that they are out of touch. Now with the more recent devs that might not be the case but every time devs add something or tweak something they never really seem to care about what the people say. I realize it’s hard to get stuff out to fix things instantly, and you gotta wait a bit to see if a meta forms to counter whatever the addition is, but honestly what people want is proof that the devs are listening to their complaints and actively trying to fix them, not some blow off post about how they’re working. People don’t want words they want action

Now I will say good on you guys for lengthening the prea acid spray cooldown, even though that really didn’t fix all that much wrong with the prea. And good idea giving marines a chance to escape the warriors grab (a chance that doesn’t work.). Every change thus far has resulted in a sense of just making small changes and not really carring about how the marines or players in general react. People are asking for harder nerfs, and are getting soft nerfs that really don’t change much.

At least that’s my impression. Had a bit of trouble finding words for what I kinda feel like at least. Like, things are changing but none of it is fixing anything it feels like, just an attempt to placate the players and make them think it’s gonna be fine.

Also, to add, I think it’d be an amazing idea to get player input about HUGE updates. We all love a suprise and if you KNOW everyone will love it sure keep it secret but for things like this player input probably woulda solved most of the problems before you implemented it.

[Royal Griffon]

It is really a meme when a warrior grabs you just to pull you into a acid cloud to die or tries to and you can't do a single thing about it but just stand there and watch as they do cause you can't fucking resist their grabs that quickly or run when they're holding you either

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

People are asking for harder nerfs, and are getting soft nerfs that really don’t change much.

At least that’s my impression. Had a bit of trouble finding words for what I kinda feel like at least. Like, things are changing but none of it is fixing anything it feels like, just an attempt to placate the players and make them think it’s gonna be fine.

Also, to add, I think it’d be an amazing idea to get player input about HUGE updates. We all love a suprise and if you KNOW everyone will love it sure keep it secret but for things like this player input probably woulda solved most of the problems before you implemented it.

Strange isnt it, something in a game gets introduced that clearly causes more issues that it resolves, like something being majorly overpowered thats not really intended.Then when the time comes to change it abit to balance it out, they are too soft on reducing whatever it is thats causing it.Extreme to extreme, kids usually act and go about things like that.

Ive been playing/observing for as long as you Casany, and ive came to the realization that im pretty sure but cant be 100% sure of.That almost nothing is tested in another server before its released onto the live server.Or, that such little testing is done in general, that there might as well not be any tests anyways and just added onto the live server like it appears to be anyhow, its one of the two.

I dont really mind(as its their server) if the "developers" of this particular server :

1. Not actually playing the server much at all to know how the server usually plays out, whats being exploited, under used, etc.
Or
2. Not actually giving a shit for any sort of player balancing that results it better gameplay for the many, over better gameplay for the few, like we are seeing with the xenoes right now.

However, it would be nice if a developer, maybe like spookydonut right here.Could come out and say that thats exactly the case.Resulting in players like me not wasting my time and energy reporting things(things like the absurdly obvious problems with the xenoes right now) which i may or may not care more about than the people actually working on this server.

Im fairly certain though, that they do give a shit about this game and what people report in the forums and on the server.Which even moreso is why it doesnt make sense that they would make a fairly large change of things without testing it thoroughly to make sure it works, instead of making us play broken rounds until they come up with and implement a solution.Surely they must of known what kind of stir this kind of change could create if it wasnt done fairly right before being introduced, surely!

[spookydonut]

We test things and playtest with staff but it's hard to anticipate what 200+ players (even more if you count unique players) are going to do with the features we add sometimes.

Certainly isn't helpful to go looking for player feedback and instead get toxic attitudes and outright hatred.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

We test things and playtest with staff but it's hard to anticipate what 200+ players (even more if you count unique players) are going to do with the features we add sometimes.

Certainly isn't helpful to go looking for player feedback and instead get toxic attitudes and outright hatred.

Ok, well thats a good piece of information to know then, thanks for replying once again, i appreciate it.

True, understandable, i get your second comment.We do see that, and its probably not going anywhere anytime soon.

Is it possible though, that maybe we could get a dedicated "Update Feedback!" section, where the idea and goal is to inform people like yourself what our thoughts are on these kinds of things.Aimed at constructive feedback and observations, where toxic attitudes and outright hatred is outlawed!

I think it could be beneficial, as making a post anywhere else on this forum, will get you the toxic hatred because its not a dedicated section for constructive criticism and people are free to snipe.

I would defiantly use it, if one were to be created, would probably end up being the only section i would post in.

The Announcements & Info and section doesnt anyways seem to have updates added in a text format we can read, for example the last commander battle execution changes for which i cant find to read anywhere.Maybe im not meant to see those changes, not sure.

[spookydonut]

There's already about 5-6 threads discussing updates along with the one apop made specifically for the purpose.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

There's already about 5-6 threads discussing updates along with the one apop made specifically for the purpose.

Ok, yeah i ended up finding apops one and had a read.I mean a thread on the main page, so when you first come onto the forums you see a section called "Update feedback" or something "ahh yep, feedback for the latest update, thats what im here for *click*".

After a update is released, the larger ones more than the smaller ones.Developers can make a post even asking for specific feedback instead of waiting for it, if there is any, and if its wanted by developers.

That way these larger updates that are harder to predict with 200+ live players, atleast you have a recent and relevant source of information right off the bat as how to go about any possible changes, if needed.
Even the OOC/Deadchat chatter ingame is pretty much what you usually will find reported here on the forums anyways.Even though its said sarcastically or whatever other flavor, its usually pretty accurate.


Just a thought anyhow.

Hope you dudes get this xeno thing sorted when you have the chance.

[spookydonut]

Nah we're just gonna leave balance alone for a few months

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Nah we're just gonna leave balance alone for a few months

Rogey

[ThatKazakhDude]

Feel like xenos more op then the human tank xDD

Because tank is just a nerf in disguise

[OatzAndHoes]

People are just being honest Spooky. When an update is poorly rolled out people aren't going to start clapping and handing out participation trophies. People cheer the good updates and criticize the bad ones. Unfortunately this one has a lot of problems. However please don't go down the road of dismissing criticism as "toxic." We criticize things because we love them. Sometimes it's harsh but it needs to be said. Ignoring a problem never made it go away.

[Casany]

Snip

Hopefully you guys (the devs) don’t fall into the common mindset that “nothing is wrong, it’s just marines being salty at a change that changes the meta” because that’s what I often see happens. And usually that’s an OK mindset as usually you don’t need to change anything and or you tweak it and make it work. But here there’s been VERY little tweaking and I just feel like it’s fallen into ‘let’s let the marines make a meta to counter it first’ mindset when marines can’t physically find a way to counter it. And not just marines are complaining, many xeno players are too because it’s just totally made Lurker and Runner obsolete. Why play a caste that can go about as fast as warrior at elite with one stun when you can play a caste that can go pretty fast, can stun multiple people, has a VERY high health pool and armor pool and can’t be countered? (Defender). Or why go Lurker when the Warrior can do everything the Lurker can do but better? The problem is not the players it’s he change, and the fact that nothing has been done to show that it’s ever gonna be fixed.

And it’s not just a “vocal minority” of players who want to change it. Players have made FORUM accounts to try and help fix it, OOC and Dchat are almost always talking about it. And please don’t take the words of troll accounts to be that of the majority because their trolls!

I’ve talked to Apop about what the plan is after major dev changes, I’ve argued with him about dev changes, and all of these listed above are usual excuses or reasons as to why changes aren’t made. Please don’t use them, this was not a change for the good. At the moment it is universally disliked, and it’ll just keep getting worse. Xeno numbers have risen which is just causin a snowball effect where there are 60 xenos and 50-60 marines, and it’ll keep going that way until something is done. I don’t care what the win rate is supposed to be I just wanna have fun, and right now it’s just not working.

[spookydonut]

Hopefully you guys (the devs) don’t fall into the common mindset that “nothing is wrong, it’s just marines being salty at a change that changes the meta” because that’s what I often see happens. And usually that’s an OK mindset as usually you don’t need to change anything and or you tweak it and make it work. But here there’s been VERY little tweaking and I just feel like it’s fallen into ‘let’s let the marines make a meta to counter it first’ mindset when marines can’t physically find a way to counter it. And not just marines are complaining, many xeno players are too because it’s just totally made Lurker and Runner obsolete. Why play a caste that can go about as fast as warrior at elite with one stun when you can play a caste that can go pretty fast, can stun multiple people, has a VERY high health pool and armor pool and can’t be countered? (Defender). Or why go Lurker when the Warrior can do everything the Lurker can do but better? The problem is not the players it’s he change, and the fact that nothing has been done to show that it’s ever gonna be fixed.

And it’s not just a “vocal minority” of players who want to change it. Players have made FORUM accounts to try and help fix it, OOC and Dchat are almost always talking about it. And please don’t take the words of troll accounts to be that of the majority because their trolls!

I’ve talked to Apop about what the plan is after major dev changes, I’ve argued with him about dev changes, and all of these listed above are usual excuses or reasons as to why changes aren’t made. Please don’t use them, this was not a change for the good. At the moment it is universally disliked, and it’ll just keep getting worse. Xeno numbers have risen which is just causin a snowball effect where there are 60 xenos and 50-60 marines, and it’ll keep going that way until something is done. I don’t care what the win rate is supposed to be I just wanna have fun, and right now it’s just not working.

We can spend our volunteering time on talking to the community or working on features /fixes

[solidfury7]

I'm no fan of the current balancing but the changes are like any changes we've had across the whole life of CM.

Things get broken, get over it.

It'll be tweaked over the days/weeks/months, and when the dust settles. It'll be in a better state or gameplay.

If you don't enjoy it until then, play a different role or a different game. It's not the end of the world.

Anyway. My issue with the grab is the fact that once broken, you remain stunned.

I believe the throw needs a slight wind up, the ability to jump in and out of a fight and throwing someone we need to look at. Especially with carriers waiting to crab the thrown people instantly.

The pulling speed of aliens needs a look at due to the adding of a throwing mechanic

[CSolaris]

I think I’ve come to terms with how ez pz ctrl + click grab and throw is when it comes to warriors. My bigger concern now though is the lunge. Does a warrior that already has one very powerful “mechanic” really need another one like lunge? Today, in a round on LV - 624, I was walking on the path to robotics along with 4 other marines when out of the literal darkness a warrior lunged at me, grabbed and threw me away from the safety of other marines and then ran over to me while stunned and devoured me. There was absolutely no counter play to that seeing as how I didn’t even see the warrior coming. Had the warrior not have lunge, it would have had to run up to me and grab me - something I could fight back with shotgun slugs.