Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Gray · Post by **Gray** » 13 Jun 2018, 07:26

Title, I wouldn't mind boiler sprays as they are only 1 line and it needs to have the boiler move his fat, vulnerable ass to the front which i've seen happen and i've seen many boilers die because of it, it's an actual risk. Praetorians however don't take that much of a risk because 1) Their spray is a cone so they stun everyone infront of them and 2) They aren't movespeed restricted like the boiler.

Warrior lunge is also another issue, it's a targeted pounce that instantly incapacitates whatever they grab and places them in prime meatshield position. I've been saving many marines by counter grabbing whoever they grab, but if you have 2-3 warriors working in tandem or god forbid a Prae-Warrior combo, you have 0 counterplay. None, that marine is gone, you're not saving him. It's very frustrating to play against those two castes as they are.

dadols · Post by **dadols** » 13 Jun 2018, 08:07

Indeed, the warrior grab has no counter-play, I find it very very frustating...
I can't resist/move/shoot literally, I'm just stuck...

spookydonut · Post by **spookydonut** » 13 Jun 2018, 08:20

This is about the 3rd or 4th thread made about this.

Gray · Post by **Gray** » 13 Jun 2018, 08:21

Don't mean to sound sassy but it's probably because dying to a warrior grab or a shotgun prae spray is about the most frustrating thing marines are experiencing right now.

solidfury7 · Post by **solidfury7** » 13 Jun 2018, 08:54

May be worth just locking this thread and putting your views on the main one.

xXen0zS1ay3rXx · Post by **xXen0zS1ay3rXx** » 13 Jun 2018, 19:34

Zero counterplay?

What are bullets, and getting gud

Heckenshutze · Post by **Heckenshutze** » 13 Jun 2018, 21:40

grab the marine that's in the warrior's grip to cancel its grab.

"countergrab"

Gray · Post by **Gray** » 14 Jun 2018, 10:32

Heckenshutze wrote: ↑
13 Jun 2018, 21:40
grab the marine that's in the warrior's grip to cancel its grab.

"countergrab"

Read my post, I mention counter grabs and how they're pointless once you have two-three warriors or a warrior-prae combo

Mobius_None · Post by **Mobius_None** » 14 Jun 2018, 10:53

In most situations it is safe to assume you will get little to no support after being grabbed by a warrior other than being shot to death.

Heckenshutze · Post by **Heckenshutze** » 14 Jun 2018, 11:28

Gray wrote: ↑
14 Jun 2018, 10:32
Read my post, I mention counter grabs and how they're pointless once you have two-three warriors or a warrior-prae combo

If you're so full of shit you're surrounded by more than 2 xenos all you have to do is accept death, no matter which caste is. Countergrab is useful and it's the only tool you have to kind of fight the warrior grab, that or a mercyful burst to your friend's head. I've saved countless grunts by countergrabbing since nobody seems to know or have the balls to do it, and, sometimes all you have to do is just control-click them, not even dragging and the marine will recover full control of himself and help you kill the xeno.

Regarding praes you gotta just understand it'll try to shotgun spit you any time it can so same with charges, pounces and normal spits, it's all about guessing where, when and how far.

Meatshield · Post by **Meatshield** » 14 Jun 2018, 11:54

As we move to a 50-50 winrate, I think we are going to have big problems getting and retaining xeno players.

The facts are:

1. Xeno frontliners will always be important and are needed. They will always need be tough to kill (T1s) and pack a punch (T2s).
2. Warrior grabs are not game winners since the nerf and are nowhere near as powerful as marines make out. A few bullets will cause a grab to stop.
3. If you are up against 3 T2 frontliners or a T3 led charge, you should need a fair number of marines to kill them cleanly or lines and lines of cades. There should be an exceptionally high risk of death.

We already underappreciate xeno players, and it will become unbearable to play as xeno as they are continually nerfed, and get the ladles of marine salt whenever they do well.

Of course, we decide which ways are acceptable for xeno to kill marines. In my view, if you are saying xenos cant have credible T1 frontliners or a T2 frontliner, get rid of engineers in the marine corps and things might balance a bit. A very strong xeno hive is like 25 active (excluding drones and hivelords, and weak T1s, larvae, etc). Marines have well over double that.

Mobius_None · Post by **Mobius_None** » 14 Jun 2018, 13:48

A rock paper scissors method to combat would be amazing for the game. Say your rock is the Warrior grabbing, paper is the Marine resisting, and scissors is the warrior resisting against your resist. Whoever resists more "wins".

Gray · Post by **Gray** » 14 Jun 2018, 16:17

Heckenshutze wrote: ↑
14 Jun 2018, 11:28
If you're so full of shit you're surrounded by more than 2 xenos all you have to do is accept death, no matter which caste is. Countergrab is useful and it's the only tool you have to kind of fight the warrior grab, that or a mercyful burst to your friend's head. I've saved countless grunts by countergrabbing since nobody seems to know or have the balls to do it, and, sometimes all you have to do is just control-click them, not even dragging and the marine will recover full control of himself and help you kill the xeno.

Regarding praes you gotta just understand it'll try to shotgun spit you any time it can so same with charges, pounces and normal spits, it's all about guessing where, when and how far.

I've saved countless by counter grabbing too, infact sometimes I risk my own life for it. I've had situations where I was the only one saving marines by counter grabbing and have saved over 5 marines in a single encounter. But that's not the point, i'm trying to say that THREE WARRIORS can take on an entire squad. If each of them lunges forward and grabs one marine then at least one of them will get away with that marine and kill him. Rinse and repeat this on the same squad and soon enough you've got at least 4 KIA. Bonus points if done in a small hallway.

As for the warrior-prae combo. Imagine this. Warrior lunges with the prae right behind him, prae acids as the warrior jumps right into their midst, now the prae catches whoever was infront of him and drags them ontop of prae acid. Rinse and repeat.

Warriors aren't front liners as much as they are better lurkers in my opinion and combining a good warrior with a good prae will make them unstoppable unless they make a dumb decision.

Meatshield · Post by **Meatshield** » 14 Jun 2018, 16:50

Warriors are terrible lurkers. Far too slow. It's about the speed after the grab. Before marines have landed warriors will be able to carry 1 or 2 hosts across the map.

Warrior (and sentinel) are the backbone of a queenless push. If marines are behind cades, warriors and sentinels are the only T1/T2s that can attack cades.

Warrior grab works when marines try a half assed push. This occurs when:
1. a boiler successfully splits the marines leaving 1 or 2 marines isolated on the near side of a gas attack.
2. 3-4 marines spot a xeno charge after it and run into a group
3. Spitter spray can also work here, if they manage to incapacitate a fuckload of marines (but really, a spitter/boiler spray that hits 3-4 marines is the marine's fault)

The only other time a warrior grab can work is where they drag a marine to a group of xenos, normally a hunter who then does the dogsboddy work of getting the host to the hive.

The only time 3 warriors could take on a squad is where there is more xeno on standby or the squad doesnt fire. Otherwise each warrior is a slow moving sitting duck for the squad. Stop thinking a marine's life is precious. If a warrior grabs a marine shoot the fucker. Friendly fire? Fuck it, kill that T2.

TLDR: marines need numbers, well organised marines with support beat xeno every time. Killing a mature/elite/ancient warrior is the equivelant of 3-4 marines getting medevac'd

Symbiosis · Post by **Symbiosis** » 14 Jun 2018, 21:49

The best way to help push a change is to utilize the powerful abilities in ways that frankly showcase their power.

Keep Prae’ing, change will come

.

WinterClould · Post by **WinterClould** » 14 Jun 2018, 22:47

Symbiosis wrote: ↑
14 Jun 2018, 21:49
The best way to help push a change is to utilize the powerful abilities in ways that frankly showcase their power.

Keep Prae’ing, change will come .

You're a bastard Chubs. A damn bastard. But you're still just the bastard we need. Kill'um all champ...

Gray · Post by **Gray** » 16 Jun 2018, 09:37

>Mature Warriors decapping in 2 hits.

May be balanced, but it sure as fuck is not fun being on the receiving end.

solidfury7 · Post by **solidfury7** » 16 Jun 2018, 23:01

Praes acid spray is far too gamechanging, one prae can down a full squad for quite a long time.

I wouldn't mind if the initial acid stunned for the same amount but after a second, it simply burned anyone else walking across it.

Warrior grab is still the most unfun mechanic since hugger combat. Itll get tweaked and fixed sooner or later its a bit of a stain on an otherwise ace update.

Mvp777 · Post by **Mvp777** » 17 Jun 2018, 04:17

Warrior grab is laughably unbalanced as it currently stands.

One way to fix it would just be making whoever gets grabbed automatically rest, as someone suggested.

Symbiosis · Post by **Symbiosis** » 17 Jun 2018, 05:15

Shameless plug -

viewtopic.php?p=204171#p204171

Have some gitlabs up that look to address some aspects that a lot of folks generally believe need tweaking!

Avalanchee · Post by **Avalanchee** » 18 Jun 2018, 04:00

"This is the third or fourth post about this"

Oh well,
Maybe people really dislike it?

Blade2000Br · Post by **Blade2000Br** » 20 Jun 2018, 15:19

Meatshield wrote: ↑
14 Jun 2018, 11:54
As we move to a 50-50 winrate, I think we are going to have big problems getting and retaining xeno players.

We actually aren't moving to an 50-50 winrate, but rather a 65/35 winrate in favour of xenos. The usual was supposed to be 75/25 so there's already some changes coming in.

Symbiosis · Post by **Symbiosis** » 20 Jun 2018, 15:24

Playing Xeno is more enjoyable when it’s a challenge than laughably easy.

Butlerblock · Post by **Butlerblock** » 20 Jun 2018, 15:41

Symbiosis wrote: ↑
20 Jun 2018, 15:24
Playing Xeno is more enjoyable when it’s a challenge than laughably easy.

except mines and off screen non-dodgable stuns

Symbiosis · Post by **Symbiosis** » 20 Jun 2018, 15:47

Butlerblock wrote: ↑
20 Jun 2018, 15:41
except mines and off screen non-dodgable stuns

No counter stuff isn’t fun for either side.

Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

Re: Prae Spray and warrior lunge/grab has zero counterplay and makes playing marines frustrating.

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