Incoming Gitlabs - Discussion

[Symbiosis]

Gitlabs are a bit easy to “lose” in a sense so I’ll be starting this hype discussion (GET HYPE!) to bring to light some GitLabs I’ll be posting today.

Now, I’m not going to even touch the dreaded R word, as that’s verboten and frankly unnecessary. The changes I will be pushing for are subjective; but based on many days and months of butchering Marines. These are in fact Xeno buffs in many ways, but they look to minimalize the unfun factors of CM.

Queen: Right now the only true counter to an Elite Queen+ that is moderately robust is earmuffs and an M56D... along with other Xenos blocking her. Queens die to tanks, AP, etc, but those are generally missteps of the player rather than a counter.

First of all, Screech allows the Xenos to come back with 4-10 Xenos against a veritable Army of Marines. The charge allows her to hold 2 tile hallways, and the Neuro is just icing on the cake.

Frankly? All of these are fine.

The Queen should be the ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN. The final boss. Now, that being said... she heals incredibly quick and her plasma regen is incredibly quick with her recovery pheromones. To discourage cheesy Queen Memery, healing should be reduced greatly to discourage combat Queen, but not prevent it.

If this is approved, I’d strongly suggest allowing the Queen some abilities that make Ovi Queen stronger or more enjoyable. (Cocktail Pheromones (2-3) or the ability to control a Facehugger, like a mini-drone). I believe that shifting the power across the hive with the cocktail pheromones will prevent bald Queens from being such a detriment - the latter ability will make Queen fun on Ovi. (It’s not very fun to sit still for 3 hours, IMHO)

Queen Change: https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/3500

C4, Requisitions/Research, and the Counter to warriors: People complain about Warriors. A LOT. The counter is frankly quite simple. Blocks of C4 can be ordered from Requisitions. Or even made by the researcher! Phoron could play a larger role in shipside RP beside being used once in Chemistry then discarded. Warriors should cause "grabbed" Marines to fall prone.

Warrior: https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/3493
C4: https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/3494

Preventing Fort FOB, diminishing Rush Strength, and increasing the “playing field”: The Queen change will help diminish the Rush Strength, but another (perhaps easier!) way to make the rush less powerful is to make Barricades an item you construct and set down at a later time, quite like the bipod. It’s not something you can carry multiple of, but if a dozen PFCs could carry a set of barricades and hastily establish defenses along flank points, the strength of Engineers and the Marines would increase a ton. It would also allow for more flanks by the Marines and allow more parts of the map to be utilized.

Barricade Change: https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/3497

Prae Acid: The stun needs to go the way of the corroder. Or be greatly reduced. You’re down for long enough to stand up... then fall back into the acid again.

Prae Acid Change: https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/3496

[NethIafins]

For best performance link related gitlab tickets

[Bancrose]

+1 To all of these chubs

[BobatNight]

Prae acid should clear up pretty quickly. right now it just lasts too long. I don't understand where you're going with this Warrior counter though.

[Renomaki]

I am one of those queens that prefer being in ovi mode over combat mode, simply because I like focusing more on the tactical side of being a queen rather than the combat side. There are a fair few neat little abilities that queens have in this mode, but it would be nice to have a few more abilities to choose from. Most of what you can do is heal a xeno, give them a tiny plasma boost, and and have buffs emit from any xeno you are observing (as well as select up to two xenos to act as leaders, which generally means they get the ability to emit buffs without you having to look at them).

I myself wouldn't mind if queens could create way-points, set high value zones, creating blueprints for drones to follow, etc. Create more options to allow queens to flex their strategic minds and add more depth to it.

[Symbiosis]

Prae acid should clear up pretty quickly. right now it just lasts too long. I don't understand where you're going with this Warrior counter though.

Warriors are strongest when Marines push two tile hallways. C4 will allow the Marines to breach and flank... a Warriors weakness. Of course the warrior can relocate in Agility mode, but they have to abandon a spot to do so.

[TheDonkified]

I think some parts of the maps should also be redesigned so that there aren't impenetrable chokepoints, specifically in caves. Another possible solution is to reimplement mining so that marines aren't forced to fight in the tight caves where xenos thrive with sticky resin + boilers + praes + warriors + queen screech.

[caleeb101]

Warriors are strongest when Marines push two tile hallways. C4 will allow the Marines to breach and flank... a Warriors weakness. Of course the warrior can relocate in Agility mode, but they have to abandon a spot to do so.

Issues with this strategy:

-The masses can't access C4's.

-PFC's can't use C4's anymore. Dunno about medics. Engineers and SL's can.

-Wasting a C4 to kill one warrior? People would rather take their chances with UGL's and shotguns.

[Symbiosis]

Issues with this strategy:

-The masses can't access C4's.

-PFC's can't use C4's anymore. Dunno about medics. Engineers and SL's can.

-Wasting a C4 to kill one warrior? People would rather take their chances with UGL's and shotguns.

The C4 isn’t being used to kill a warrior. It’s being used to universally destroy walls and even rock walls (per the pending gitlab)

The idea is that C4 becomes more mass produced and available either by points or the Researcher - it makes the maps more open and other approaches viable. The strength of Xenos is holding a single tiny area with 1-2 approaches and just attrition. It will help better balance things so NICE things aren’t removed because they’re strong.

[FighterX2500]

These things about Queen might be good only if it has opposite to there extreme buffs.
Facehugger manual control and Cocktail Pheromones surely will overbuff xenos, but it then Queen should be nerfed heavily in combat.
That thing makes here more like "overmind", but not final boss.

What should "Final Boss" look like? Huge and extremely dangerous ass-xeno.
Like, you know, armoured like crusher, claws like ravagers one and warrior's grip with a shitton of HP. She should not attain "group" abilities in that mode then. But then she shouldn't have her pheromones (or weak) and, I guess, screech. Well... or at least not stun everyone.

It is like "One Person Army", other xenos should attain extreme debuffs in that mode then. She lost her childs, no need in their assistance
Some persons here might see "Alamo assault" problems, but it is just you came in and ovi again.

[caleeb101]

The C4 isn’t being used to kill a warrior. It’s being used to universally destroy walls and even rock walls (per the pending gitlab)

The idea is that C4 becomes more mass produced and available either by points or the Researcher - it makes the maps more open and other approaches viable. The strength of Xenos is holding a single tiny area with 1-2 approaches and just attrition. It will help better balance things so NICE things aren’t removed because they’re strong.

I meant using them on walls to lead to a warriors death. But I see your point.

[Steelpoint]

Is this the 'post your sugg' thread?

On the OP, I feel Warrior neck grabs is going to remain a contentious issue for a while. I'd suggest an alternative to simply make it the warrior doing the lunge cannot attack their victim on harm intent at all. So the warrior can't just instantly disable and murder a marine.

I question the idea of the 'final boss'. Unless killing the Queen is a permanent affair, or doing so massively cripples the Hive for a very extended period of time, then I feel having a new 'boss' pop up five minutes after you killed the last one is going to be difficult to tackle.

-----

If we're gonna sugg our own ideas. I personally really bloody hate the current Almayer end game. If I were Captain of Balance I'd just end the game when the Marines retreat. In alternative I suggested the ability for the Commander or XO to abort the mission and abandon the sector.

The whole concept being that after a hour of in game time the CO/XO can request permission to abandon the mission from High Command (admins), if granted a X timer begins (I think 10) where the ship will prepare to deorbit and leave. If the xenos hijack and crash a ship onto the Almayer the abort is canceled.

[Symbiosis]

Gitlab's are up. Take a look!

[Deanthelis]

This is coming from the man with literally the highest winrate anyone is aware of when he plays Queen.

And I'm the man most known for FOB bullshit at the moment.

I agree with everything posted here.

[Jeser]

"Final Boss"
Fucking hilarious. New Queen appears within... 5-10 minutes? Aliens don't even get debuff like scrambled mind, which they should have by many reasons, from lore to simple punishment for stupidness.
I agree with everything but Queen. Queen is pure bullshit and last time I saw good direction with Queen is when staff said they want to make Queen more Ovi-oriented and less combat oriented. Right before they added charge, spit and so on.

[Gnorse]

Agree on everything but the queen.
If the it's meant to be a final boss, her death should be game changing for the xenos. As it stands, a new one can just evolve within 5 minutes.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

As long as this ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN can reappear again every 5 minutes as long as the hive has a Drone, I don't agree with her ridiculous offensive capability. That said, I like everything else in here, and I definitely love the idea of metal barricade as something pre-built and then deployed when needed. 2 pheromones at once maybe a bit too powerful though, if its strength is not weak or very weak, since that's a permanent Warding+Recovery for everyone in a leader's range.

[Symbiosis]

A good points been brought up many times. Queens pop up every 5 minutes. I agree that needs adjusted, personally!

[Reuben Owen]

I think some parts of the maps should also be redesigned so that there aren't impenetrable chokepoints, specifically in caves.

It's called going around aka flanking.
If for some reason there's no point you can flank them then you've effectively trapped them in their area, so it's a win/win.

Mining would be almost not okay. Because you could make any entrance wide enough for a tank and nothing else, it can just sit there and shoot. Although even if there was mining, it doesn't apply to half the maps. (Prison/Ice)

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

I would also like it if queen timer is decreased a bit, since 20 minutes is a loooooong time for a specie that supposedly lives or dies by its queen. 20 minute is more than enough for a stage 2 infected to burst -> larva evolves to Drone -> Drone waits for full plasma to become queen.

Right now, since a new queen can pop up every 5 minutes, and there's supposedly no limit on the number of queen your hive can have as long as you have a Drone, queen just feels oppressive with her offensive capability.

[Gnorse]

Honestly, you could just enforce a max cap on queens.
say two or three. If the last queen dies, It's gameover.

[Kesserline]

I don't agree with most Queen changes proposed.

Queen need a reversed state to its Ovipositor mode.
Either remove the charge, either remove the explosion&stun resistance.

______________________

Grenades used to be the meta, because a single nade could break the queen charge/retreat and ensure a Queen-Kill.
Then, grenades got nerfed and Queen got buffed and granted stun-resistance.

So, all marines relied on AP.
Then, the AP got utterly nerfed on its logistic aspect.

What is the counter now ? The tank ? The tank is like the mortar. Good hype. Depends HEAVILY on the crew. Cost a shitload of points, creating logistical problems.

So, the question remains : what is the marines counter against the Queen ? (Not talking about Warriors and Prae).
You want the Queen to be the Final Boss, but can the marines just manage fairly to reach the Queen in the first way ?

______________________

Do you understand and still know that half the marine playerbase is not able to make a single kill in solo on a daily basis ? (not even round basis, but daily). Not talking about getting the last bullet on a target, but getting a kill, by yourself, without any external help.

Two factors used to give a fair chance for marines to win : the robustos (at the good place, and good moment), and xenos heavy mistakes.
Now, robustos do not have enough cards to turn the tide. And Xenos got so many advantages than even when they make huge mistakes, it's hard to punish them.

A single Queen charge, with a handful of xenos can break a 20+ marines force in matter of seconds without FOB, and in matter of minutes for a FOB/fortified location.

[caleeb101]

Probably be a good idea to reduce the amount of monkies and instead increase the amount of starting larva available. This way, you can have more xenos round start, but if they get wiped that's pretty much it. No running around for 2 hours because Queen charge frenzy escapes on 1 health or the Queen finding some place to ovi so it's Round 2.