Rahl’s Million Dollar Question - Marine Law

[Wesmas]

There is a great deal of MP hate here. I am not saying bad MPing doesnt happen, but I think you are focusing too much on the cases where it does.
We normally have at least 60 players in dead hours, and far more during medium to high pop rounds. How many marines actually get arrested each round? From my time as MP, having more than 3 arrests of marines is rare. Now that we have NJP, its far more fun for the MPs to use them, rather than brig somebody and stand there on gaurd.

We do need a good IC and OOC method to dealing with bad MPs however. IC, it should be easy for somebody in the brig to challenge the charges, or the procedure used. OOC, use ahelps people. If an MP is going past what you consider reasonable, ahelp. The worst they will do is ignore it, and chances are they will at least prompt an IC resolution.

Being an MP isnt easy. You have a bunch of armed people that want to shoot things, and take it personally when you try to keep them in line. If marines are calm when chalanged, they are going to get off lighter. Running away from the MPs adds a charge, where as staying and explaining means you can either avoid anything, or be given some NJP for a couple of minutes.

[Dauntasa]

I don't think that people are saying that MPs are always jerks. Most MPs are fine. It's just that a good MP is an MP that hardly does anything. Their whole round is yelling at a couple of marines at briefing for having their guns out and then maybe strip searching a couple of survivors, if any made it. After the marines deploy, the shipside roles are too busy to break marine law and the marines are outside of the MP's reach, and if any survivors made it it takes maybe 5 minutes to process them. From this point on, you have no job. Any major disputes in CIC are solved by the CO BEing someone, and if it's a lowpop round with no CO there probably aren't any MPs either.

So, the good MPs fade into the wallpaper because they don't have anything to do, and all anyone notices are the particularly bad MPs who go Judge Dredd on someone while a warrior is trying to pull their head off. This is not a good state for a job to be in, where the way to play it well is to alt tab to youtube until you hear "UNSCHEDULED DROPSHIP DEPARTURE".

[RobBrown4PM]

I think I've only ever gotten arrested once as a Marine, and that's over the course of many years. I don't see a problem.

[Build_R_]

As someone who tends to play as a MP a lot, I find that a lot of people should take advantage of the "they are not required to enforce Marine Law 100% of the time unless ordered by a superior" rule.

I recently had a round where the CMP let the CL off for distributing ultrazine, basically one of the only things he can give out, bad move. Not soon after the entire security team was in an uproar about how it's illegal not to uphold the law and how they're appalled that the CMP wasn't immediately arresting them. They even got high command involved.

I'd just like some MPs to remember that although it's not much, there is SOME wiggle room when choosing who to arrest, if this person isn't actively being a LowRP shitler, impeding the progress of the op or being generally shitty, you do have the choice of not arresting said person for perhaps accidentally hitting someone.

I was once brigged for pushing another marine over and saying the word, "Bullied." Clearly, this is a joke, in-character. The MP wordlessly tasered me, proceeded to lock me up without telling me why I was under arrest, left me bucklecuffed to the bed, but wait, it gets worse. They give me a thirty-minute timer. I throw a fit, the CMP puts me in perma, and then later comes in and point-blanks me repeatedly with a buck-loaded tac shotty. Following this, I get admin-healed and then, STILL NOT DONE. The same guy who arrested me proceeds to drag me around the Almayer as it's boarded, STILL CUFFED, and attempts to cuff the marine that tried to uncuff me. I am eventually mauled by aliens without ever being more than one square away from the MP. From start to finish, this was about an hour-long travesty. At no point after my initial arrest, maybe five minutes in, did I get to do... anything.

In summation, I'd like to see MPs removed entirely, and instead let SLs and commanding officers (of any variety: SOs, XOs, COs) dispense justice as needed.

On the topic of POWs, maybe make that a survivor thing? Survivors who are sleeper agents, yaddayaddayadda.

I understand that that was an awful experience and it was certainly an extreme case but that does not mean that it requires extreme, permanent actions in retaliation. There's clearly many issues in following the protocol of marine law in that instance which may make it an OOC issue. Considering your idea though, what would make an SO or an SL be more responsible when dispensing justice when they're bound by even less rules? It sounds to me like you would end up with a ship full of drill instructors giving group punishments. Just putting in my two cents but once again your interaction with that MP should not ever happen and I'm sorry it did.

[Torrentia]

I think I've only ever gotten arrested once as a Marine, and that's over the course of many years. I don't see a problem.

"This hasn't affected me personally therefore it isn't a problem."

I see certain MPs arresting and issuing arrest warrants for the same people over and over and over again, trying to find the most minor infractions to bring them in for. There's no question that they are breaking the law, but it's unevenly enforced. Arrests I've seen/been a part of: calling a body blocking MP filthy, using the verb "fucking" in a sentence when answering a question from a superior officer (ie: Get to the reactor room! --I'm on my fucking way!), bringing a weapon like a SG from medbay floor to req, taking a headset from a dead marine to call in medevac or whatever. These are things that everyone has done, but I would argue only a few players get arrested for it.

Then there's the issue of stacking charges. Shoving in req line turns into cussing turns into "FUCK OFF" when the MP comes to arrest...40 minutes for hooliganism, resisting, and insub. Clearly just a 5 minute timeout would suffice...heck, the drag from req to the brig is five minutes. There's definitely power play and meta targeting going on with a lot of MP roles. And very few MPs follow correct arrest procedure. Of course, there's no penalty on them for not knowing their own laws.

In my mind, there's only two solutions to complaints about MP abuse: MPs need track and arrest EVERYONE that makes violations, or they need to chillax with the sentence stacking. Both require a scrutiny of marine law and MP procedures. Maybe separate roles for sentencing and arrests? So MPs don't have to do it and can get back to patrols.

[CaptainYankee]

"This hasn't affected me personally therefore it isn't a problem."

I see certain MPs arresting and issuing arrest warrants for the same people over and over and over again, trying to find the most minor infractions to bring them in for. There's no question that they are breaking the law, but it's unevenly enforced.

There was a period of time not too long ago where every time Valentina Garilovich was medevac'd on the prison map, an MP would sprint to medbay to strip search her and ask doctors if she stashed a MAR anywhere. If they found one, they would immediately arrest her after surgery, confiscate the rifle (and attachments) and brig her for the maximum time allowed. This was systematic and either a set of MPs were paying very close attention to med comms or there was some severe metagaming going on (Like there's even a question of which of these is correct). Can anyone justify an MP doing that to one player in particular? Obviously Val was constantly valid hunted, to the point where she spent more time and had more experience breaking out of brig than any other player I've seen thus far. Of course, being good at breaking out of brig just leaves MP regulars more likely to brig you.

[JJG]

Also MP's, in my experience anyways, never investigate properly. I have been arrested and put in the brig and the MP's used the same fucking Private that accused me as eyewitness. 80% of my personal MP interactions and the interactions of MP's with other players have been terrible. MP's regularly brig the wrong people.
I read somewhere that people had some drama over the Ultrazine left in medbay by the CL a few days ago. I as the researcher took the pills to conduct expirements. And when the MP's came to get the Ultrazine pills from me 36 minutes later I took out 6 more pills and dropped them on my chair before handing over the pill bottle and they didn't even notice.

Perhaps MP's should be whitelisted so the people playing the role actually know about all the ways marines can screw them and perhaps they should also have better tools to investigate crimes.

[solidfury7]

"This hasn't affected me personally therefore it isn't a problem."

I see certain MPs arresting and issuing arrest warrants for the same people over and over and over again, trying to find the most minor infractions to bring them in for. There's no question that they are breaking the law, but it's unevenly enforced. Arrests I've seen/been a part of: calling a body blocking MP filthy, using the verb "fucking" in a sentence when answering a question from a superior officer (ie: Get to the reactor room! --I'm on my fucking way!), bringing a weapon like a SG from medbay floor to req, taking a headset from a dead marine to call in medevac or whatever. These are things that everyone has done, but I would argue only a few players get arrested for it.

Then there's the issue of stacking charges. Shoving in req line turns into cussing turns into "FUCK OFF" when the MP comes to arrest...40 minutes for hooliganism, resisting, and insub. Clearly just a 5 minute timeout would suffice...heck, the drag from req to the brig is five minutes. There's definitely power play and meta targeting going on with a lot of MP roles. And very few MPs follow correct arrest procedure. Of course, there's no penalty on them for not knowing their own laws.

In my mind, there's only two solutions to complaints about MP abuse: MPs need track and arrest EVERYONE that makes violations, or they need to chillax with the sentence stacking. Both require a scrutiny of marine law and MP procedures. Maybe separate roles for sentencing and arrests? So MPs don't have to do it and can get back to patrols.

A lot of these issues should be dealt with with a NJPs, I do strongly believe that the new ability to "overlook" certain minor crimes or at the very least give them NJPs is a good step in the right direction.

I will say that it usually is the same people getting arrested in proportion to the rest of the community, as I tend to say 95% of the server never ends up in the brig, the 5% who /usually/ the same people.

Of course, their will be some zealous MPs and there will be some newer players who aren't completely familiar with marine law and every single procedure (Sometimes people slip up, the reason why they're usually not reprimanded beyond a warning is simply that, well, context matters.)

If you're a smart cookie, you'll be friendly, polite and apologetic to the arresting MP (Heinz is quite good at this, he always offers cigars and compliments to the MP staff if he wants to stay on their goodside) and it works. Hell, I remember before I became a CMP/MP player giving MEDALS to the very same MPs who were considering allowing a mutiny to occur.

The medals quickly changed their mind on that.

Work smart boys, not hard.

[Torrentia]

I will say that it usually is the same people getting arrested in proportion to the rest of the community, as I tend to say 95% of the server never ends up in the brig, the 5% who /usually/ the same people.

Of course, their will be some zealous MPs and there will be some newer players who aren't completely familiar with marine law and every single procedure (Sometimes people slip up, the reason why they're usually not reprimanded beyond a warning is simply that, well, context matters.)

If you're a smart cookie, you'll be friendly, polite and apologetic to the arresting MP (Heinz is quite good at this, he always offers cigars and compliments to the MP staff if he wants to stay on their goodside) and it works. Hell, I remember before I became a CMP/MP player giving MEDALS to the very same MPs who were considering allowing a mutiny to occur.

The medals quickly changed their mind on that.

Work smart boys, not hard.

This is pretty much confirming that certain players are targeted over and over and over. Pretty much every player has sworn at their officer, pushed a marine, or has had an unsecured weapon. And it's not just new players that don't follow arrest procedures: I see recognizable faces doing this frequently. Tase first, ask questions later. But probably not.

Also, not everyone is going to brownnose the MP mains to get on their side, jesus christ.

[ExGame]

You have to be a victim of one of these MPs to understand why people complain so much about them (if you don't understand it already), I myself had to go through that, and after my month-long absence I noticed how the quality of MPs turned from okay to complete garbage. I'm not exactly sure what (if it's the summer vacations or some other shit), but man, MPs rarely contribute to the round. There are times that marines do shitty things like deploying the tank without your co-driver while the tank has NO EQUIPMENT besides the tracks. But it takes command orders for MPs to notice such major things and have responsible people get arrested.

On the other hand you have these really minor things that nobody gives a shit about since it doesn't disrupt anything (e.g. wearing payamas as CO) that MPs love to seek out and arrest people over. There was a round where I once was the Commander, we had issues at round start since MPs arrested a bunch of crew members that were absolutely vital,

An example, if you wish to read, in the spoilers.

► Show Spoiler

An example was the only cargo crew member, the RO (with his underlings absent). The CL appearently appeared into cargo to steal some items, and the RO reacted by pushing the CL, having thrown him out of cargo. I hear about it in the radio, RO arrested due to "assault". As I find out what it is, I order the arrest of the CL in a quote "arrest none or arrest both". Especially considering the CL got to keep the stolen items after the RO's arrest, the MPs didn't bother much to do anything but tell him to "put it back". And then I hear, the CMP ordered the arrest and does not want to arrest the CL because "The CL has access and the RO never forbid the CL the items". So I think to myself "Oh great, one of those CMPs again."

Anyway, round goes on, still a little bit of issues due to unstaffed cargo and MTs somehow ending up in the brig for extremely dubious reasons as we need them to repair the tank which still couldn't drop due to the previous issue. One of the TCs went SSD as MPs have arrested the wrong person. So the tank gets basically no viable use. My entire CIC staff complains to me about MPs, including some people on the ground.

Fast forward a few minutes and the ground offensive is going shit, marines are dying in dozens and logistics completely broke down in just 30 minutes of deployment time - pretty obvious since half of logistics staff are still either being arrested, being questioned or in a cell. One of the MPs brings animals to the CIC, I don't think much of myself untill one of the people on CIC (I don't remember if it was the MP) starts to fuck around with the animals, being a nuisance. I decide to dispose of those animals with a shot from the Mateba, thinking it's over.

But I was wrong, while I was preparing announcements about evac/etc since marines were already pushed back to the FOB, the CMP had the brilliant idea to send one of the MPs up to have me arrested for killing a cow, saying it's hooliganism. I don't resist and send a LT to do the announcement since I know that I can do practically nothing. One LT began to argue with the MP arresting me since they say I'm needed with the skeleton CIC crew. Turns out that I get a brig time of 15 minutes, how lovely. The announcement of evac is still not sent and I began to complain about it, wanting to go back to leading. But it seems a piece of the marines in the FOB managed to evacuate. CIC is basically in panic mode. Suddenly the hijack notice comes like 13:05, and I still see the CMP bringing in marines to be brigged. CIC staff + few marines are rallying in the brig, waiting for the release of the arrestees.

At 3 minutes left on my cell timer, a MP comes by and lets me out, mentioning that I should go back to leading the marines, the dropship crashed into cargo, and the CMP, still pulling around a prisoner, starts to chase me with his taser. He draws gunfire of the marines in the brig onto him and gets shot, including other MPs. I myself was close to pulling out my mateba and killing the CMP in self-defence. The only thing stopping me was the probability of the CMP ahelping it and pulling up some rule pretzling that he's protected. So I hesitated and got tased, marines still shooting at MPs.

Multiple defenders storm into the brig and begin attacking MPs, who are still hesitant to letting out the prisoners untill one severely injured MP comes by and gets me and the other guys out of the cells. I run up to the CIC and lead a charge out of the CIC, breaking out into the hallway with my fellow marines and getting some xeno kills secured for us.

In that example, I can safely say that the MPs were the antagonists of the round, they were a huge factor into why marines lost on the ground, which was frustrating to watch as you, the absolute CO of the Almayer, have no powers to stop it. Multiple messages to High Command yielded no responses (I obviously couldn't judge on my own case and also couldn't take any ahelps about the MPs).

In the past, marines mutinied against command, if mutinies happened. And as of right now, the majority of "mutinies" are formed by command + marines fighting against MPs, which is such a flawed concept. The entirety of the Almayer crew having to fight against MPs shouldn't need to happen. In my opinion, the aCO should be the ultimate authority on law, having the CMP just be a type of revised Warden. It is atleast worth a shot to prevent such clusterfucks.

[Gnorse]

^^^^
Exactly this.
Most people don't even bother fighting back against the MPs since if they SOMEHOW kill them, the MPs can just ahelp and draw their "Muh OOC protection" card and get the guy job-banned, have his whitelist revoked or just straight up banned.

[Heckenshutze]

Don't worry, changes are coming. There's already an exception for killing MP's. (We had a case last night, funnily enough, with symb as CO)

[Nantei]

Yeah, the concept of, "It doesn't happen to me so it isn't a problem." is a pretty horrible bad faith argument, and not constructive at all. Just because it doesn't happen to you does not mean it isn't a problem. Anyone who has played with me even once should know I don't ever do anything that really warrants arrest. Worse I might do is backtalk a commanding officer. I get arrested pretty frequently when veryyyyy specific people are CMP. If an MP wants to arrest you, you will get arrested, end of discussion. Marine law is so pitifully easy to break that this is like people who claim you should just not get municipal violations in real life. You break it every day, you just don't have people being dicks to you over it.

MP's should not be an antagonistic force, and I am very glad the old guard has been swapped out with Rahl. Rahl does not seem sympathetic to this soft griefing nonsense, and that is why I continue to love his administration.

[Royal Griffon]

Delta level arrests are iffy, some do, others don't. Personally, I learned that doing arrests while on delta is not viable unless is a major crime. But that doesn't mean I will just release everyone on brig. I will try to evac then, at least that's what I always do on a DS breach.

Now, I will tackle on the "pajama" issue: The CO shouldn't have done it. Period. It's extremely lowrp to do briefing on Pajamas, if you did that on my army the superior officer would scould ya to hell and forth and send you to prison for two weeks to serve food for the soldiers.
So no matter what you justify, the CMP was right in arrest the CO. Would I have give him a warning? Sure. Would I arrest the CO if he didn't listen? A-BSO-LU-TELY. If a lowly marine can be brigged for improper uniform, the CO can too. There's no such thing as "Too important". The XO exist for this kind of situations.

I think alot of people really like to skirt marine law and push it to see where they can reach. And when it finally bites then in the back, they complain.
Seriously, Just don't break marine law. It's not hard shut up your mouth and curse at your superior on the planet off from the radio. It's not hard to not break light bulbs or windows on the ship.

The Majority of times, MPs get shit on for doing their job, it's annoying. Sure, there are some cases of extremes from CMPs/MPs players, but it's not as often as people make it out to be.

Just a joke from a fellow CMP/MP to another
Delta Level Alert exists?!
Holy fuck sign me up on that train when it finally fucking arrives

but in all seriousness, yeah MPs do get a lot of shit for doing their jobs (hell I got called braindead by Broden for arresting him for assaulting a marine in front of me in LOOC) but some of the MPs and CMPs ask for it, a lot of times Jack Knight and his impersonators just ruin the game with no reason other than they want to do something special EVERY round for themselves. They seriously need a timeout or a talk to sometime or another for how they use their role, perhaps a bit of time without the, "unga dunga, I'm a WO and I am the law of this boat, dunga unga."

[Avalanchee]

MP is a 'rp' role
Bloody nice joke,

If you try to RP you will get bwoinked for breaking the procedures.

[Mann handle]

I think the easier fix here is the remove the OOC and IC protection that MPs seem to get right now and to make it that MPs WONT be banned as soon as they fuck up (this also includes BE rules surrounding blowing off retarded MPs heads). The balance of the 3 forces (the MP, Command and the marines) can self regulate standards and if one decides to bother the other two, the two fuck the one up, think of it like how fire is made. If one decides to act up the whole thing falls down. The system then resigns itself to self regulation. In short, just rely on general rules and allow the marines to organically solve issues.

From what I've seen and read in the colourful list of reports, we've got MPs that are attempting to become the next jack knight and are making extremely stupid decisions which is now leaking to the administration of the server.

The PJ incident? why the MP thought it was a good idea to start shit on the bridge while it is under siege is beyond fucking ridiculous.
The medbay incident which stemmed from the unlawful order (attempted anyway)? It reads like a mess that really required more investigation before any faxes got answered. In fact it was not really deemed a law break, yet the commander was arrested over it and caused a stir.

And before someone likes to jump on me for the lowrp for the PJ incident or whatever incident they have in mind. I've seen admins do comparably stupid shit before. If it was funny, the marines gave no real fucks and enjoyed the round. If it was dumb the marines complained about it. Yet complaints most of the time are ignored or further fueled, however the best times are when complaints are read and admins decide not to make an event that caused the mess in hand. Can we at least stop jumping on high horses surrounding this?

The PJ incident which I'm focused on, sure the arrest could be made and the CO's spinning of the laws is dumb, but at the same time the MP just went out of their way to ENSURE the arrest of the commander for the simple reason that the commander is prime for arresting, also MPs love spinning marine law so the complaint that people pretzel laws and rules should really be applied to both parties.
The medbay incident shouldn't have happened to be honest but I reckon that comes down to teething issues related to law and rule changes as well as the old guard being evicted and replaced.

Most of the issues surrounding MPs right now are; boredom, lack of understanding of the laws, pretzeling of the laws. This can be boiled down to; boredom, bald MPs, arseholes as MPs
When it comes to arseholes, Jack knight, as much as I disagree with him, plays the role perfectly. He, while an arse about it, is reasonable and doesn't actively hunt certain people down, he just applies the law equally without pretzeling it to hell and back. And his character for it is really consistent. The people trying to copy him are failing due to how fucking badly they want to be like him. That or wanting to become the next meme.

Commanders right now, XO and SOs are also included here, are currently not enjoying rounds because of the eggshell mentality they have to deal with. MPs are actively aiming for a big hit and the pretzeling of laws is bad enough alone, stick a target on someone and it goes sideways.

Tl;RD. Make MPs BEable, remove all OOC and IC protections they get because they are MPs. Also remove the rule about MPs HAVING to follow marine law to the letter at all times, it just forces some really stupid incidents. Gentle encouragement and general rules are all we need to self regulate this.

For a note about my arrest record before people want to bring that up as well. 3 times (from memory), all as a CT. First time i was released instantly because it was the other CTs they were after (when you could have 4 CT's). Second time was for having a pistol belt (this law was changed however). Third time was pushing an MP who pushed the commander who was setting up the barricade because he couldn't be arsed to wait 5 seconds (I think this was awan as well). Got wounded and taken to the back of CIC where I was uncuffed by the doctor and treated.

The mentality that "I don't break the law so I don't see this happen to me" is silly really. It's easy to avoid breaking the law yes. At the same time due to pretzels, it's also laughably easy to break the law at the same time.

[Symbiosis]

The mentality that "I don't break the law so I don't see this happen to me" is silly really. It's easy to avoid breaking the law yes. At the same time due to pretzels, it's also laughably easy to break the law at the same time.

That's something I mentioned in Discord quite a bit recently.

You can "bait" MP's into breaking the law, you can arrest Marines for losing a limb, and you can even pursue sedition charges (permanent confinement) for disagreeing with the SO/CO/XO, etc.

MP's and CMP's have pursued sedition charges for arguing with an SO over comms. I saw it just yesterday and spent 15 minutes debating with the CMP to get the charge lowered.

An MP can view any order you give them as an NJP and punish you accordingly, contacting the Provost. God help you if you're blacklisted or disliked.

[JennerH]

I was arrested a bit ago for insub because I went AFK as a marine in extended bunks for 5 minutes. MP wouldn't find out why I was charged, he just arrested me, took my shit and put it all in evidence for some reason. Kinda sucks when you don't know what you did to get arrested, and the MP won't bother to find out.

[solidfury7]

I was arrested a bit ago for insub because I went AFK as a marine in extended bunks for 5 minutes. MP wouldn't find out why I was charged, he just arrested me, took my shit and put it all in evidence for some reason. Kinda sucks when you don't know what you did to get arrested, and the MP won't bother to find out.

Ahelp.

Any competent mp or CMP will release prisoners who don't have updated records if nobody responds to inquiries on why you're arrested.

If you don't know why you're arrested and the MP doesn't. That's an OOC issue.

[butters742]

Just, real quickly. I also think that during a Delta Alert where the DS has crashed into the Almayer, MPs should not be arresting people. Its a little thing but so many times (Not just this one recent case) I've seen MPs arresting people in CIC defenses or SD defenses, its fucking insane. And then they both end up dying anyway, but the arrested guy usually doesn't even get a chance to defend himself. Just as well, MPs have a problem with leaving prisoners behind in the brig when the ship crashes and just letting them die.

This. Except last time this happened (i was innocent and this MP was totally griefing) he took me up a ladder surrounded by xenos. Xenos all attacked the MP and a marine grabbed me and saved me. The MP was torn to shreds. Caught it on Video too heh.

[Lorem123]

A day or two ago there was a round where the MPs were being such shitters that the admin called in an Admiral just to sort shit out, because the MPs were brigging and permabrigging marines for basically everything they could. Absolute mess of a round.

[Eliteempire]

I might be weird for saying this but I think the squad leader should be able to get physical with any marine in his unit/squad who is breaking the law or things of that nature and also the one who tells marines 'Get your gun away, yada yada'. There isn't a reason for an MP to get involved unless something big is happening like a rogue marine gunning down the hallway or MT's ignoring the reactors to play bar.

Sure this might lead to 'oh no, Squad leader is abusing a marine' but most will stop being dumb once you hit them a few times where as if you lock them up they just get edgy and resentful.

[LittleBlast]

A day or two ago there was a round where the MPs were being such shitters that the admin called in an Admiral just to sort shit out, because the MPs were brigging and permabrigging marines for basically everything they could. Absolute mess of a round.

I believe that I was the XO In that round. I got a 30 minute brig sentence for telling marines to stay away from the MPs. I nearly got arrested for stopping a MP Who was arresting one of my LTs to ask what the charges were. The RO nearly got arrested for simply being in CIC. MPs are powerhungry right now and its bullshit to be in command staff. I love playing XO and I hope to get commander soon, but these MPs are killing my love of both the role, and honestly of the server aswell. Having to basically not to anything outside of sitting at my desk to not get arrested, and even then still risking getting arrested, is fucking BS.