MPs have become antags?

[Azfrief]

See, there's an easy fix.
How about we remove the OOC protection MPs get and allow marines to bash their heads in if they go over the top ?
that'll make them think twice, I promise.

I'm all for this. I'm fairly certain the entire reason the MP's even have OOC protection is because the mods are afraid of losing control even though THEY'RE FUCKING MODS.

[ThePiachu]

See, there's an easy fix.
How about we remove the OOC protection MPs get and allow marines to bash their heads in if they go over the top ?
that'll make them think twice, I promise.

Sounds like mutiny to me, and I know some people don't like "the m word"

[NethIafins]

Yes, you fucking retard.

This is unnecessary rude

[ThesoldierLLJK]

The only way to fix this is to outlaw Command staff Pajamas and Gentlemen canes.

Nah in all seriousness, I think if the mod/admin team wants MP's to handle the minor stuff IC/Ingame mechanics, I'm ok with that, but I think there needs to be some outside checks and balances to prevent them from being battlefield executed/bashed to death when they're only trying to play the role and follow the rules given to them as long as they're acting lawfully and within the rules.

edit: Here are some things I think:

If a marine wants to in-character interfere with an arrest because he/she have a roleplay reason to do so, that's fine, but it shouldn't come to the point where a marine murders a MP who is trying to arrest their buddy for a simple theft, hooliganism, etc...

MP's should not be going down planet side to get fugitives unless it is one of the three Capital offenses
-Murder
-Sexual Assault
-Sedition

I mean seriously sending down a marine squad to the front lines to arrest someone for hooliganism, damage to property, and theft is silly. Just have them marked for arrest and handle it when or if they return to the ship.

[davidofmk771]

See, there's an easy fix.
How about we remove the OOC protection MPs get and allow marines to bash their heads in if they go over the top ?
that'll make them think twice, I promise.

But this is directly contradictory to RP guidelines: Marines are reasonable, sane, and if they are criminals or mental cases, they are rehabilitated by futuristic science and expected not to immediately revert to violence when confronted with something they don't like.

I enjoy MP vs Marine situations sometimes, but i've seen some recent devolutions that just left a bad taste in my mouth. MPs shouldn't be getting beaten to death for flashbanging the FOB while the xenos are still underground (Ice Colony of course). It's just not reasonable. There is a time and a place, and its not in the middle of what should seem to be a rougher-than-usual bug hunt

I think a lot of people's problem in that regard is that they don't understand how common unintelligent life is in the AvP universe. They see xenos and think it's a major breakthrough to simply find alien life at all, when the movie Aliens itself refers to "bug hunts" as common and "Arcturians" as well known. And accordingly, they act like the sky is falling and everyone's lives are immediately at risk even though all they saw was a particularly nasty case of bugs that happen to bleed and spit acid, so they think violence against the MPs is immediately justified, but it isn't.

Basically, I see it this way: Does you guy have a good reason to believe he wont be safe in the brig? Not you OOCly, but your guy ICly.

If not, why fight the MPs physically at all? Play Benny Hill and Keystone Kops all day, sure, but beating on cops for any attempt at enforcing the law is generally something only unstable and unlawful people do, which is, again, directly against marine RP guidelines.

[Gnorse]

-snip-

>Bashing MP's head in because he arrested you for theft : not okay

>Bashing MP's head in because he was firing his tazer/deploying flashbangs on the frontline : completely okay.

Change my mind.

[Kazuko_myu]

I still think CMP should be a whitelist only role.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Change my mind.

Nothing to change, as a regular MP player, I agree with you.

[davidofmk771]

>Bashing MP's head in because he arrested you for theft : not okay

>Bashing MP's head in because he was firing his tazer/deploying flashbangs on the frontline : completely okay.

Change my mind.

The FOB is barely the frontline, and really, a case could be made that there is no frontline because this is not a war, it is a bug hunt. A glorified pest control job, but instead of poison and traps, heavy firepower is used. The xenos use tactics, sure, but so do chimpanzees. There is no reason for a marine to ICly believe that their life is in danger while they're being cuffed in a fortified FOB with multiple marines around.

Essentially, we are like the Australians fighting emus. Only we can understand the true plight and hopelessness of our situation, but we are expected to carry on and finish the job anyways, because nobody else could understand.

[Casany]

The FOB is barely the frontline, and really, a case could be made that there is no frontline because this is not a war, it is a bug hunt. A glorified pest control job, but instead of poison and traps, heavy firepower is used. The xenos use tactics, sure, but so do chimpanzees. There is no reason for a marine to ICly believe that their life is in danger while they're being cuffed in a fortified FOB with multiple marines around.

Essentially, we are like the Australians fighting emus. Only we can understand the true plight and hopelessness of our situation, but we are expected to carry on and finish the job anyways, because nobody else could understand.

>Said frontline, not FOB

There is a frontline in CM. Absolutely there is. Have you EVERY played a standard marine? And if an MP is shooting tazers and throwing flashbangs on that frontline I'd murder that fuck. The second xenos see marines start going down for any reason they're gonna charge out and boom, you're fucked.

The comparison you made has no relevance to CM.

[Gnorse]

-snip-

I don't really understand how that relates to my post, but ok.

I myself have 'accidentally' shot a couple of MPs on the frontline because they came down to arrest someone for theft and ended up tazing five of us. Xenos even managed to drag off one marine who got tazed.

So if you're out here telling me that shooting an MP who just caused my fellow marine to die and could even cause ME to die is not okay, you're on some hot stuff.

[NoahKirchner]

I still think CMP should be a whitelist only role.

CMP is not important enough to be a whitelisted role, and even if it was, whitelists are almost entirely a popularity contest. The same people who abuse marine law to ruin rounds for other players would get accepted onto the whitelist and the occasional CMP players who try it out once in a blue moon and contribute more to the round than pointless shitlery wouldn't be able to do so anymore. Frankly I think it'd make the issue worse.

CM staff also rarely remove whitelists for bad behavior, with only two commanders ever having had their whitelists removed, one because he was a dick on the forums for no reason and the other for blatant metagaming. If you do this the problem players will never actually be punished if they do get the whitelist because their whitelist will hardly, if ever, be removed.

[davidofmk771]

I have seen MANY crybabies scream about getting arrested at the 'frontline' when they were at the FOB. It is anything but a rarity, so please understand if I don't assume you mean what is essentially greifing by stunning marines in direct combat, which used to be against the deployment rules anyways.

Maybe that clause needs to be re-added to marine law if that soft-grief shit is happening, MPs should never be going outside of the FOB, it's a recipe for disaster.

[CABAL]

Why IC'ly MP would even risk going outside FOB for a criminal? He have to return to the ship and if he is causing serious trouble on the field, there are other marines to deal with that. OOC'ly he can't FF others deliberately and I don't really see what one rogue marine (that can't be insane) can do more to harm the operation. Marines can't kill, so no murder, sexual assault might be at max crotch scratching and it nearly never occurs and even so, one perv will not harm the operation. Sedition is what might be problem, but I don't see staging mutiny at frontline without comms.

MP should never put their foot outside FOB, no IC, or OOC reason. They should never arrest when the threat is nearby planetside, or if threat is at all shipside. I don't know what it is, or was in military with MP so the judgment of it should be left for someone who do know what was at the past and what it is now in military.

MP's are like immune system. They get bored if they don't have any germs to fight. Why can't we give them germs to fight? Maybe spawn randomly few syringes with space drugs near Prep, maybe randomly give few marines an objective to do something dirty like stealing MP beret, or something. Boredom and lack of purpose is what might be the cause of shitty behaviour. ONE MISSION, ONE PURPOSE! NO MISSION, NO PURPOSE!

[davidofmk771]

I mean, some sort of 'random event' system involving minor crimes (Random soft-antaging like goonstations miscreant? Some sort of special spawn for dead players to be criminals of some sort?) along with adding the FOB deployment rule back for MPs in the form of Marine Law protocol would definitely be a start here. I'm surprised MPs are even doing that, but I haven't played groundside roles much since the rule changes so maybe I shouldn't be.

[Nantei]

The MP's landing and going to the frontlines to tase people is very low rp. This would never happen in real life, absolutely never. It's beyond ridiculous. An MP would wait for the marine to return to base, so the FOB or the ship, and then arrest them there once they were recovered. Sending MP's to the frontlines should honestly be a jobbannable offense.

[Maxim Inc]

Yesterday I saw a certain MP (who shall not me named) running around in the FOB two rounds in a row, and when I asked him why he was there he said "Why are your here"? and he proceeded to run around doing nothing until the evac was called in both cases.

[ThePiachu]

Hmm, how about we spawn someone to be "corporate mole / sympathiser" in the Marines? Someone that is fiercely loyal to WY and would work with the CL. Their job would be to look after Company's interest, deal Ultrazine and generally be a soft antag for the MPs to suss out. This would give CL a bit more influence over the mission without making them to be the baddie all the time?

[Maxim Inc]

Hmm, how about we spawn someone to be "corporate mole / sympathiser" in the Marines? Someone that is fiercely loyal to WY and would work with the CL. Their job would be to look after Company's interest, deal Ultrazine and generally be a soft antag for the MPs to suss out. This would give CL a bit more influence over the mission without making them to be the baddie all the time?

I'm down for that

[RedsPro]

Theres a difference between ignoring the law and not brigging someone for 45 minutes for accidentally hitting a window with a satchel.
I would also be cool with a few rounds of no OOC protection for the MP's

[Royal Griffon]

couldn't have stated it any better,
Seriously what's the deal with MPs doing this?
Not just arresting as well mind you, actually trying to basically PERMA the CO, for example Rose
When they used PJs and got arrested for, "improper uniform," a minor offense, 40+ minutes later, and I had already seen their cell timer end as well when I checked in on the brig, so I thought they were already out, and that's why it was so confusing to me and I call it either Charge stacking (Rex Texas was there and he's no offense to them but an infamous disrespect charge stacker and once gave 2 marines over 50 minutes just by stacking disrespect charges.) or just putting them in for more time, cause I saw their timer, and 30 minutes later basically they had to actually ESCAPE from prison and the MPs and lock themselves in CiC, and of course by that time, we had already called an evac so, they were basically useless no offense to them but thanks to the MPs that round, the CO was basically obsolete they weren't there basically.

[solidfury7]

Yesterday I saw a certain MP (who shall not me named) running around in the FOB two rounds in a row, and when I asked him why he was there he said "Why are your here"? and he proceeded to run around doing nothing until the evac was called in both cases.

You do realise that MPs sometimes wait at the FOB for wounded and/or wanted marines to be taken topside, and sometimes those marines don't make it back to the FOB die. This is the usual route they take if the route to the middle ground (places like hydro) are not safe or if they simply dont have the manpower/firepower.

MPs can't decide that they simply want to go to the colony either, they need permission from their superiors.

[spookydonut]

If you want this situation to stop escalating then both sides need to chill out.

COs/Marines need to stop trying to trap/kill MPs

MPs need to stop trying to 'get' COs.

[Surrealistik]

MPs have always been antags.

[Casany]

If you want this situation to stop escalating then both sides need to chill out.

COs/Marines need to stop trying to trap/kill MPs

MPs need to stop trying to 'get' COs.

Most situations which end with a dead MP or CMP are usually started by said MP or CMP. Have yet to hear of a situation in which the marines were instigating or the CO was instigating on purpose. Though, I'm not on a lot so it may be more even than I assume