A Real Discussion: Xeno Meta Gaming

[Davidchan]

Marines start knowing nothing about the xenos, while xenos dragging bodies away is considered part of the lore. Once marines fully know about the xenomorph reproduction cycle, they are allowed to kill monkeys.
The exception is survivors, who know about xenos but aren't allowed to go on a monkey murder spree. That's just in for gameplay an balance reasons, plus that survivors are supposed to be focused on surviving.

Xenos drag hosts to infect them or kill them in the nest, there is nothing about xenos coming back to a corpse post death and dragging it off into the wilds to hide the body. If you're going that excuse, xenos should be required to move ALL corpses to the hive, not haul it around for 3 minutes till the defib timer is up. Xenos have 0 lore reasons to know how marine combat defibs work round start. RP is a two way street, xenos don't get a pass 'Because the Marines are the story'

Riiiiiiiiight.

There's plenty of legit reasons for moving dead marines, stop being so salty about dieing please.

Name 3.

[Dolth]

Agreeing with David.

Go on BobatNight.
Give us VALID examples. Instead of randomly throwing an argumentless statement.
We're listenning.

[BobatNight]

Ok so you obviously don't play Xeno often or you'd know the dark vision toggle is on the right side of your screen. Xenos actively break lights and melt flares/Rail lights, it's not always a priority for these castes as they're often front line fighters and not flankers. I personally destroy every light I'm able as a Lurker, but you're not going to see a Spitter caste sharing the same ambush spots as me usually. These roles are mostly seen near the hive and front lines with exceptions.
If I've found a good hole in marine defenses and can ambush marines easily, I'm not going to leave dead bodies littered around to alert potential prey of the threat in the area, nor do I want the light they produce.
I watch defibs all the time, thru the use of vents or Lurker stealth, I put myself right next to the Marine's constantly. Anywhere there's a dark tile could be a xeno lurking, you're kidding yourself if you don't think a xeno sees nearly every movement the marines make. We're always there, around a corner or the edge of the light.

Marine defenses have a very specific Meta on most maps, that's just a fact. Like-wise Xenos will also build up and nest in 'meta' places, they know it's a good place.

It's not always defibs, this is also ignoring the fact that most marines are killed WHILE being drug away as well.
Lights and maintaining your ambush spots aren't excuses.

Man it's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.
Lights
Maintaining your ambush position
Lore accurate
Most Marines are killed WHILE being drug away
Dank corpse art.
Bruh you died, it happens don't be so mad about it.

[Karmac]

xenos are a fuck

I am saltman

1 bazillion dead survivors

[Casany]

xenos are a fuck

I am saltman

1 bazillion dead survivors

[Bancrose]

xenos are a fuck

I am saltman

1 bazillion dead survivors

[Kavlo]

xenos are a fuck

I am saltman

1 bazillion dead survivors

[caleeb101]

Man it's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.
Lights
Maintaining your ambush position
Lore accurate
Most Marines are killed WHILE being drug away
Dank corpse art.
Bruh you died, it happens don't be so mad about it.

well, it's not exactly lore accurate. marines being killed while being dragged away is fine however it doesn't explain why they're killed then dragged away. not that it really matters anyways.

corpse art is a meme reason for dragging bodies away

surely if you wanna maintain an ambush position, you're gonna want some corpses as bait?

[wrpen]

Y'know, I legitimately never even considered defib when I dragged corpses, I legit thought it was about moving the lights to awkward positions. I only ever dragged corpses out of the hive, out of likely battle areas, or stacked them to minimize light cover.

All that aside, I just want to chime in that this is a little bit of a two way street, and I know marines get 90% of the flack that even exists for meta, but I've also known sometimes where doing something "wrong," even it would be meta to do it "right," gets called out, e.g. I remember someone who repaired almayer tcomms, got killed, then got on my ass (I was queen) for not breaking it or telling anyone to break it.

It's not just about doing the right thing yourself, it's also about creating an atmosphere where people will want to do that. Compliment people who pretend they don't know what the big metal turtle does, even and especially if they get dunked for it, instead of bragging about how they got dunked on.

[BobatNight]

well, it's not exactly lore accurate. marines being killed while being dragged away is fine however it doesn't explain why they're killed then dragged away. not that it really matters anyways.

corpse art is a meme reason for dragging bodies away

surely if you wanna maintain an ambush position, you're gonna want some corpses as bait?

Iunno man, if I stumbled upon a bunch of corpses I'd be a little worried about what killed them personally.

There's also bigger scumbag Xeno moves like dissolving marines, I guess we can just do that from now on?

[Casany]

Iunno man, if I stumbled upon a bunch of corpses I'd be a little worried about what killed them personally.

There's also bigger scumbag Xeno moves like dissolving marines, I guess we can just do that from now on?

Dissolving marines? Like devouring and keeping them? That should be against the rules if I remember correctly. It was a huge issue back in like 2016 so much so that hey removed the ability to devour dead bodies. If they can now tho I don’t even know anymore

[BobatNight]

Iunno probably not, but its not hard to eat a marine and poop him out somewhere after a while. I've never actually kept someone in for a long period of time.

[caleeb101]

Dissolving marines? Like devouring and keeping them? That should be against the rules if I remember correctly. It was a huge issue back in like 2016 so much so that hey removed the ability to devour dead bodies. If they can now tho I don’t even know anymore

It's not against the rules to devour them and keep them. Being inside a xeno doesn't even do damage now. It just ghosts you after 10 or so minutes and you can't struggle during those 10 minutes.

[DriedMilk]

xenos are a fuck

I am saltman

1 bazillion dead survivors

[Dolth]

Man it's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.
Lights
Maintaining your ambush position
Lore accurate
Most Marines are killed WHILE being drug away
Dank corpse art.
Bruh you died, it happens don't be so mad about it.

Man it's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.
Lights -> Ok
Maintaining your ambush position -> That's one situation out of 1000, so, no. Bullshit. Some are dragged OUT of a frontline, which is no ambush, and the most common case.
Lore accurate -> No. In the lore, xeno drag bodies while killing them, or to infect them. They do NOT drag a dead human in ANY reason.
Most marines are killed WHILE being drug away -> The hell are you on about? That's FINE, the topic is about marines dragging DEAD marines from the frontline to HIDE them.
Danke corpse art -> That's probably the only way you RP, as a xeno.
Bruh you died, it happens don't be so mad about it -> Bruh there are rules, it happens they should be applied and metagame is one of them.

EDIT : Also I have nothing about full devouring.

[BobatNight]

Man it's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.
Lights -> Ok
Maintaining your ambush position -> That's one situation out of 1000, so, no. Bullshit. Some are dragged OUT of a frontline, which is no ambush, and the most common case.
Lore accurate -> No. In the lore, xeno drag bodies while killing them, or to infect them. They do NOT drag a dead human in ANY reason.
Most marines are killed WHILE being drug away -> The hell are you on about? That's FINE, the topic is about marines dragging DEAD marines from the frontline to HIDE them.
Danke corpse art -> That's probably the only way you RP, as a xeno.
Bruh you died, it happens don't be so mad about it -> Bruh there are rules, it happens they should be applied and metagame is one of them.

EDIT : Also I have nothing about full devouring.

Xenos rarely if ever go up to a randomly dead marine corpse and move it.
Sounds like a total non-issue if you're fine with these other reasons.

[Jeser]

Xenos rarely if ever go up to a randomly dead marine corpse and move it.
Sounds like a total non-issue if you're fine with these other reasons.

Well, that statement over there proves that you either don't play very often or that you you play only alien and prefer not to notice when this happens.

Simple example from yesterday:

I got killed on river by defender and runner. Runner drags my body from the river to east damb. Leaves for ~30 seconds, returns back and drags me to the furtherst corner of the cave north of temple, hides me behind resin door on the nest, because marines were reported of my death and were coming to damb. Another squad happens to assault this area within minute, so I get dragged again further into north-east caves, approximately ~20 or so tiles and finally left alone.
I was dragged 3 times. Within 5 minutes. By same runner. I was PFC. You gonna deny meta here too?

[Dolth]

This happens all the time. All the time.

SL, specialists, some robusts PFC or a cunt with a flamer that pisses off a crusher.
Yes, I despite it but I -can understand- metatargetting.

But then if a xeno grabs that dead marine and pulls it BEHIND XENO LINES, to hide it IN MAINTS.

That's what happen VERY often. And that's something that CANNOT be justified other than metagame.
Also please do an effort and understand this has nothing to do with salt from dying or salt from having a defib refused. The whole issue is xeno players doing metagame and not being punished as it's a rule. Either make a rule allowing xeno to drag corpse as they see fit, either make an exception and precise xeno can metagame by all means.

[Build_R_]

I see the issue and the mountain-loads of salt that it can cause but what exactly can you do about it?

Yes, from certain perspectives it is metagaming and from other perspectives it isn't but from an OOC perspective it's a legitimate strategy similar to marines managing to solve the xenos' circle of life within an hour.

It is absolutely annoying and unfair in most cases but it really walks the line between metagaming and not metagaming instead of completely breaching the rule. That and it is such an incredibly common occurence that to suddenly begin taking action against it would cause a lot more salt.

[Dolth]

I see the issue and the mountain-loads of salt that it can cause but what exactly can you do about it?

Yes, from certain perspectives it is metagaming and from other perspectives it isn't but from an OOC perspective it's a legitimate strategy similar to marines managing to solve the xenos' circle of life within an hour.

It is absolutely annoying and unfair in most cases but it really walks the line between metagaming and not metagaming instead of completely breaching the rule. That and it is such an incredibly common occurence that to suddenly begin taking action against it would cause a lot more salt.

You're actually the first one giving a proper answer within this whole thread.
Say what, fair enough. There's a slight difference though between metagaming which leads to understand lore and metagaming which leads to end your round. But as an overall, I get your meaning.

I suppose a proper rule would remove the salt, really. We had metagame enforced already back in the time, the beginning of the enforcement was a pain from what I recall then it all walked among the custom and people got used to it.

[BobatNight]

Well, that statement over there proves that you either don't play very often or that you you play only alien and prefer not to notice when this happens.

Simple example from yesterday:

I got killed on river by defender and runner. Runner drags my body from the river to east damb. Leaves for ~30 seconds, returns back and drags me to the furtherst corner of the cave north of temple, hides me behind resin door on the nest, because marines were reported of my death and were coming to damb. Another squad happens to assault this area within minute, so I get dragged again further into north-east caves, approximately ~20 or so tiles and finally left alone.
I was dragged 3 times. Within 5 minutes. By same runner. I was PFC. You gonna deny meta here too?

Who's denying anything? I said it rarely happens.
I xeno main, yes.

I never said corpses aren't drug away to deny defibs, I said there's other reasons for moving a corpse.
You gonna keep salting about being drug away or maybe you wanna read the thread.

[Davidchan]

Man it's almost like you didn't read the thread at all.
Lights
Maintaining your ambush position
Lore accurate
Most Marines are killed WHILE being drug away
Dank corpse art.
Bruh you died, it happens don't be so mad about it.

Have you been reading the post? This isn't about dragging away living marines. This is a marine dying in the field and a xeno going up after death to drag them off.

Lights - Irrelevant, the armor light isn't that wide to begin with and if anything Xenos are smart enough to use dead marines as bait. If you don't want a dead marine in your ambush zone don't kill them there. You're also arguing that lights are simultaneously ubiquitous and rare enough to hide every dead marine.

Ambush position - Literally the same thing as above. If you killed the marine where you ambushed them, rather than attempting to capture or drag them off, then you clearly wouldn't care if a corpse or two was in your ambush spot.

Killing dragged marines - Not what this conversation is about, have you been reading the thread? Besides, if you're already dragging a marine and killed them, congrats on being a bald xeno denying your hive another infected host.

Corpse art - not even worth commenting upon.

Salt- "Hmm, people are starting to realize I powergame a role to the point that any decent admin would ban me. I better try and change the subject and say people are just angry they died." Salt has nothing to do with this. Xenos, who fucking cry over every little thing like slug stuns and tank running them over, throwing a tantrum when it's pointed out they regularly engage in behavior that is far outside the what their role should be. Dragging corpses is for two exact reasons. To deny the dead marine a chance at defibbing despite the xeno having never seen a defib, and denying living marines a chance to loot the body, again something xenos shouldn't be concerning themselves with even though every drone/sentinel caste will acid spray any dropped weapon they get even a hope of doing.

Who's denying anything? I said it rarely happens.
I xeno main, yes.

I never said corpses aren't drug away to deny defibs, I said there's other reasons for moving a corpse.
You gonna keep salting about being drug away or maybe you wanna read the thread.

'Hardly ever happens' and 'literally anytime I die, dragged out of a fire fight by a caste that shouldn't be in said fight, then dragged off again by another xeno who wasn't even around when I died.' don't fit in the same realm of logic. Xenos drag bodies. All the time. Your attempts to justify them (poorly at that) doesn't make it okay, especially when xenos are clearly doing to spite dead players and not actually doing it for a lore or RP reason (the only reasons they should be touching bodies to begin with). There are no counter examples of marines in this behavior because all those examples are explicitely stated to be metagaming or mechanically coded to be impossible welding vents and killing animals prior to contact with xenos being the two closest examples.

And yes, I can say this happens with certainty because I see it happen multiples times a day. Marines fighting at hydro getting slashed to death by a Ravager only for a lurker or drone to rush in, grab the corpse and drag it away before a medic can get close. That's not for lighting, that's not for position, and that's not even by the same alien that killed them. That is solely for the purpose of metagaming defibs. I've even seen runners dash into FOBs that were left undermanned or open to snatch corpses. It's a very prevelant problem and the fact that xeno mains and staff refuse to acknowledge it's happen

4. No powergaming - Powergaming includes performing actions outside your assigned job or chosen character’s abilities. Your skills or RP background prior to the round do not matter - a standard marine with "a brother in Engineering" does not know how to hack an airlock.

5.No metagaming or metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and/or voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.
Examples:
Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive

I'ts a very clear violation of rules 4 and 5, yet when ahelped, the only response ever give is 'it's not against the rules'. Funny how metagaming cites examples of what is marine metagaming but what is not, but not what is xeno metagaming but provides an example of whats not.

[BobatNight]

-Salt Snip-

Lights aren't irrelevant.

"Don't kill them in your ambush zone" That makes absolutely no sense, I'm ambushing/killing marines in that area, hence the ambush zone.
No I'm not leaving bodies in my ambush zone to light the area and alert other Marines of the danger there. That's some galaxy brain logic you got there bud.

'Bald Xeno' Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah *Pauses for breath* AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Corpse Art is a corner stone of Xeno high rp.

Last but not least.

[Bancrose]

xenos are a fuck

I am saltman

1 bazillion dead survivors

I wanted to post this twice so that I made sure we got the point across.

[Gnorse]

what's that ? something's in the vents ?
better weld every fucking vent there is, I don't want any space aids.