A Real Discussion: Xeno Meta Gaming

[Blade2000Br]

Ok so, since this is getting to a point people are slowly building up to start insulting each other, I will drop this:

My fellow colleagues already explained why somethings are the way they are. You can disagree, but that's how we are handling those issues.

Now, if you really think this is an issue you can tackle on, then, by all means, apply for Staff and go ahead, start applying this, talk with fellow staff and defend your POV. We are more than glad to have those discussions, we do it all the time about several subjects from time to time.

If you feel like coding is as easy as you guys are putting out, then by all means, go ahead and apply for coder. Talk with your fellow devs and try to get it merged. You guys can do it.

Well, you can always do the Symb solution. Just exploit to its limits until it gets fixed.

I honestly will go and be against that. All it does is getting the devs angry, get the staff team angry and, depending on the situation, even warrant a ban if gone too far. This doesn't help anyone, only make people get tired of you.

[Casany]

I honestly will go and be against that. All it does is getting the devs angry, get the staff team angry and, depending on the situation, even warrant a ban if gone too far. This doesn't help anyone, only make people get tired of you.

It's almost like the players feel so unheard that they're willing to get the staff mad just to have them hear us out.

Huh.

[JJG]

It's almost like the players feel so unheard that they're willing to get the staff mad just to have them hear us out.

Huh.

Well I dont like it, but it gets results on almost every server CM included.

[Lorem123]

Ok so, since this is getting to a point people are slowly building up to start insulting each other, I will drop this:

My fellow colleagues already explained why somethings are the way they are. You can disagree, but that's how we are handling those issues.

Now, if you really think this is an issue you can tackle on, then, by all means, apply for Staff and go ahead, start applying this, talk with fellow staff and defend your POV. We are more than glad to have those discussions, we do it all the time about several subjects from time to time.

If you feel like coding is as easy as you guys are putting out, then by all means, go ahead and apply for coder. Talk with your fellow devs and try to get it merged. You guys can do it.



I honestly will go and be against that. All it does is getting the devs angry, get the staff team angry and, depending on the situation, even warrant a ban if gone too far. This doesn't help anyone, only make people get tired of you.

Maybe if the staff did not ignore suggestions players make to make the game more balanced, ignore everything on gitlab, and ignore posts that explain why the game's balance is so bad right now there wouldn't be a problem with the players about this.

How would joining the staff team help with fixing the game in any way? And becoming a coder for this game wouldn't help either, since you still have to follow what the people above you say - which is going to be to balance the game poorly.

[Casany]

Maybe if the staff did not ignore suggestions players make to make the game more balanced, ignore everything on gitlab, and ignore posts that explain why the game's balance is so bad right now there wouldn't be a problem with the players about this.

How would joining the staff team help with fixing the game in any way? And becoming a coder for this game wouldn't help either, since you still have to follow what the people above you say - which is going to be to balance the game poorly.

Literally this.

I’ve aaid it before I’ll say it again. Staff don’t care about what the players have to say about the game. If they did they wouldn’t say shit which can be summed up to “We’re not gonna listen to players because we’ve already decided and we’re of course better because we have a little orange tag!”.

Joining the staff team wouldn’t work, I know many people in the staff team who don’t agree with current policies but can’t change it because they aren’t heads, and only heads decide this instead of the PLAYERS.

The staff are in the MINORITY here, they shouldn’t be deciding for the majority. That’s not how any fair system should work.

But not like my ranting on the forums will do anything sadly, nor will anyone else’s. The staff’s minds have already been made up. At this point it’s equivulant to yelling at a brick wall, you just get torn up vocal cords and a headache.

[Lorem123]

At least Corporate Merc is doing well, the mod team there seems to be a lot more level-headed and willing to hear feedback.

[Jeser]

I honestly will go and be against that. All it does is getting the devs angry, get the staff team angry and, depending on the situation, even warrant a ban if gone too far. This doesn't help anyone, only make people get tired of you.

Most of the time, sadly, it's the only way to get very annoying problem that shitton of players complain about fixed fast and not waiting for year or two for that.

We appreciate awesome things devs do, but they need to get a rule: fixing problems first, then adding new content.

[Lorem123]

Yeah, the best way to get something broken fixed is to abuse the shit out of it until the developers get it through their heads that it needs to be fixed.

Except for xenos. Xenos are always going to be hilariously OP and they're never going to get balanced.

[Davidchan]

I honestly will go and be against that. All it does is getting the devs angry, get the staff team angry and, depending on the situation, even warrant a ban if gone too far. This doesn't help anyone, only make people get tired of you.

If players are willing to push a system to its limits to point out how stupid it is, maybe staff should be more receptive to suggestions and feedbacks that built up over months before it got to that point. If getting staff angry or increasing their workload is the only viable way players can see change happen on the server, the staff needs to reconsider their priorities and focus on fixing the problems we have before making new ones.

[Tharinoma]

People, staff are players before they are staff. We hear the feedback. We discuss the feedback. Devs don't ignore suggestions.
Please take a step back and consider that we are all doing this for free. Things take time to get done, usually a long time.

[Casany]

People, staff are players before they are staff. We hear the feedback. We discuss the feedback. Devs don't ignore suggestions.
Please take a step back and consider that we are all doing this for free. Things take time to get done, usually a long time.

Except we've already had a staff member come in here and basically say that nothing will change. It's hard to believe that change is coming when staff are saying that it won't.

[Jeser]

We all understand, that fixes, changes take time. But there is difference between taking time and more than 2 years waiting for sniper IFF. Hell-knows how long we have these discussion about body dragging.

We've gone from Pre-Alpha to Omega. Yes, while we had cloning, in my opinion, it could be justified to hide marines bodies. But cloning is long gone.

[Lorem123]

People, staff are players before they are staff. We hear the feedback. We discuss the feedback. Devs don't ignore suggestions.
Please take a step back and consider that we are all doing this for free. Things take time to get done, usually a long time.

I've been told several times that suggestions on Gitlab are almost always ignored.

You guys would save yourselves a LOT of trouble if you actually told the players what you plan on changing. A Trello board or some google spreadsheet with the upcoming balance changes would do a lot to help with community-staff relations, since it lets the players know that the staff do actually give a shit. From my experience, the staff really do not care about player feedback.

[kamenkuro]

I'm back gonna say more stuff. Defib-able corpse dragging makes the game not fun. It removes you permanently when you still have a chance. It is definitely meta because it's a major hold over from the days of cloning and where a singe xeno could devour an entire platoon. Like, literally eat the entire platoon. Why? Because it removes marines from the game. That's the xeno player's entire goal. Not to kill marines. Not to infect marines. It's to remove them from the game. That is a meta as fuck reason. Now they don't need to even drag them across the map. Just stick them someplace where they won't be found long enough for defib timer to run out. Does this matter? Nah. I don't mind. Most xenos are bad anyways. When I get any sort of long range scope and I see a boiler with three corpses under it's fat ass thinking "hurr, they can't be revived. good job guys" I just plink shots at them as they scramble back and forth in a state of on fire and not on fire. The issue is not being able to be in the round as a marine. That's the most fun part of this game. Playing a xeno is boring. There's no risk. Especially the longer you are a xeno. Killing marines isn't fun. Your entire kit is based around making sure they can't fight back. You can just hop on away with bullets flying past your grinning chitinous ass cheeks should you mess up with no consequences. No busted tail, no bum, just gotta find weeds and plop on down for a little bit.
All that said. I can understand why folks don't want to be able to be pulled out of the game so easily. I can also understand why the devs and mods don't want to make it so that xenos can't pull corpses. The issue is that I don't think folks quite get it. There is a large number of folks that are saying that their enjoyment of the game is being hampered. And I can tell folks are frustrated because it feels like their concerns are being brushed off. I honestly feel like this would solved by having a second server or something. I would lose all day if it meant I could just hop on as a marine someplace else. I've honestly contemplated figuring out out to get back into the game on another account once I've died.

[Kineem]

...The exception is survivors, who know about xenos but aren't allowed to go on a monkey murder spree. That's just in for gameplay an balance reasons, plus that survivors are supposed to be focused on surviving.

i'm curious why survivors are forced to avoid killing monkeys even though they ICly know that each monkey they don't kill is eventually going to become another alien that will hunt them. the reason they're not allowed is because it guarantees one less larva and so stopping survivors from doing that is okay because it's a gameplay/balance reason, yet xenos grabbing defibbable bodies and dragging them off to deny defibs is acceptable even though they're effectively doing the same thing

[Lorem123]

Because if the xenos didn't get their 20 free larva they'd whine. It's that simple.

[Gnorse]

That rule needs to go, especially if the survivor in question is a security-related role like a prison guard on prison, marshal on LV or a PMC on red.

[Dolth]

But then we all forget that... Xeno can't meta! HAH!

[Nickvr628]

Because if the xenos didn't get their 20 free larva they'd whine. It's that simple.

Yeah I would be interested to see how the balance changes if survivors could kill smallhosts so the xenos don't get that many larva. It would also incentivize the xenos to focus on the tallhosts instead of the queen saying "ignore the humans" every roundstart.

[kamenkuro]

Because if the xenos didn't get their 20 free larva they'd whine. It's that simple.

I kind of feel like xenos start with far too many as it is. The only reason they make it so easy for them to reach 20-30 early on is because of how many people want to go xeno, but that doesn't scale for lowpop and the more xenos there are the easier it is for them to steam roll the marines.

[Xodok]

I suggest going further and permaban xeno faction because they are imbalanced.
Marines are good at killing each other before deploying. Just throw a "blue" joke to delta over common radio at briefing - and you will have hunger games event ic, hows that no good?

I will give a SOLID +1 for suggestions that against dragging dead bodies and request work on it before all the new stuff to add.

As Jeser said: first fix imbalance shit than roll update hows that fucking hard to understand?

Oh wait, no, that what he said:

We appreciate awesome things devs do, but they need to get a rule: fixing problems first, then adding new content.

I think we sending pretty same message.

[Dolth]

Oof.

Very rude. If devs at least pay attention to us please give feesbacks.

Also there is one problem. What if Ancient runner xxx decides to slash infected mureens being dragged to a nest, said marine dies on the nest. You can't move him?
Hurr durr.

[Jeser]

Best suggestion I saw covered any possible problems, infected dead marines are allwoed to be dragged.

[Poops_Buttly]

I get the lights and gathering meat thing but what bothers me is how utterly committed xeno players get to it to the point where they’ll die trying at any cost to drag a dead PFC away from the middle of a bunch of marines like have some class that’s not how a beast facing threats would act that’s how a hyper rational machine with no survival instinct might sacrifice for the meta-cause.

[Jaketeaking]

topic no longer really relevant tho?