A Real Discussion: Xeno Meta Gaming

[MattAtlas]

Incredibly there are many things xenos can metagame without realizing it because this shit is written nowhere.

For example, you can't know about radiation so if a queen makes an engineering hive on big red you're just fucked, you can't mention the self destruct self destructing, if a xeno mentions something metagamey and you reply to it you're probably gonna get pinged for metagaming too, and so on.

[Symbiosis]

Incredibly there are many things xenos can metagame without realizing it because this shit is written nowhere.

Bingo. Don’t go drone on the Almayer.

The lack of an objective rule set to protect you can have obvious repercussions.

If you’re on the planet don’t melt anything, don’t slash anything that isn’t a barricade or wall keeping you away from Marines, just focus on killing/capturing Marines. It’s a new era of subjective enforcement on Xenos, long gone is the era on Marine responsibility.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

The only true meta imho is that we can see the identities of humans. I’ve seen xeno rounds where everyone went apeshit to kill certain players who were just PFCs because “fuck that guy”

[Jeser]

The only true meta imho is that we can see the identities of humans. I’ve seen xeno rounds where everyone went apeshit to kill certain players who were just PFCs because “fuck that guy”

That's... kinda me every round.
That's why suggested to remove names and optionally to replace human sprites as sillhouttes for aliens. When alien goes extra 2 tiles to grab you PFC and not medic next to him, it's just... wow.

[Renomaki]

That's... kinda me every round.
That's why suggested to remove names and optionally to replace human sprites as sillhouttes for aliens. When alien goes extra 2 tiles to grab you PFC and not medic next to him, it's just... wow.

We did try that at one point during a round of Big Red. it was removed shortly afterwards because it was too hard on xeno players.

Of course, they also removed the weapon sprites so you couldn't tell a shotgunner from an SMG user, so it was rather brutal.

[Symbiosis]

We did try that at one point during a round of Big Red. it was removed shortly afterwards because it was too hard on xeno players.

Of course, they also removed the weapon sprites so you couldn't tell a shotgunner from an SMG user, so it was rather brutal.

Or a Pred from a lone Marine....

[Jeser]

We did try that at one point during a round of Big Red. it was removed shortly afterwards because it was too hard on xeno players.

Of course, they also removed the weapon sprites so you couldn't tell a shotgunner from an SMG user, so it was rather brutal.

My idea was to make sillhouttes when human is not in direct view (behind the wall or alien in vents). So aliens would start to play careful and calculate risk better. Removing names is still a MUST in my opinion. Too much aliens meta coming from knowing marine names.

Side note: removing General was and still is quite very hard for marines, yet no one reverted it. Just saying.

[Bath Salts Addict]

Bingo. Don’t go drone on the Almayer.

The lack of an objective rule set to protect you can have obvious repercussions.

If you’re on the planet don’t melt anything, don’t slash anything that isn’t a barricade or wall keeping you away from Marines, just focus on killing/capturing Marines. It’s a new era of subjective enforcement on Xenos, long gone is the era on Marine responsibility.

I really don't like staff intervention for a lot of things, but I feel like melting random stuff on the Almayer does need to have some sort of restriction if it's severely hindering.

I remember seeing a spitter on the Almayer that started melting all of the marine prep vendors, and I thought that was the most clever thing I've ever seen, and you can justify it from an IC standpoint if you witness it dispensing the guns that are killing your fellow xenos. The issue is, those vendors were so integral to the Marines that while it's incredibly clever to melt them staff told the Spitter not to do it and fixed all the melted machines.

I kinda draw parallel with that to scout specs using buckshot shotguns. Is it clever? Yes. Is it creative? Debateable. Was it abused so much that devs had to take action? You betcha. I'm all for clever, creative strategies by both Marines and Xenos, and I absolutely hate everything that the devs are doing to make the gameplay as boring, repetitive and linear as possible but the other hand is having a select few players abuse those tactics. And god forbid staff ever take action against those blatant powergamers and metagamers, they'll just yell at the devs to make everything child friendly. And what happened to that one person responsible for having shotguns removed from scout specs? They became a mentor, and still continue their powergaming shit to this day with impunity, never to be punished for playing solely to win and nothing else.

Gone are the days of supermatter dirty bombs, research grenades, Sulaco fire purges, killing xenos in scrubbers by cranking up the temperatures, disposal traps, VietCong xeno tactics, junkhives, ritual sacrifices to the gods for green crushers and buddying up with Predators.

[ThePiachu]

disposal traps, VietCong xeno tactics, junkhives

Oh! Do tell me more!

[Bath Salts Addict]

Oh! Do tell me more!

In the Sulaco days, MTs often passed the time when rounds lasted a whole lot longer than they usually did. A common thing they did was mess around in disposal chutes. So long as they minimized twists and bends and time spent in the actual pipes (which is what hurts you when you fall into disposals) they wouldn't get hurt, and could create rollercoasters. Going even further, they could employ it defensively around the Sulaco's main ladders and trap xenos in disposal coasters so marines could line up some neat kills. This was effectively abolished when devs removed disposal pipes and chutes from the pipe dispenser.

VietCong xeno tactics mostly involved using dead bodies to hide either themselves or facehuggers, back when facehuggers didn't die when they weren't on the same tile as eggs and could be carried by any caste. This involved hiding them under the bodies of dead marines, under boxes, and in really unlikely locations, such as even putting them inside bags so they would spring out and attack the marine that opened the backpack. Back then, a grunt could absorb one facehugger, with it breaking his helmet while an SL could eat 2~ of them with their better helmet, rather than a single facehugger being game over.

Junkhives was when xenos could pull any unbolted item around, and involved the practice of using random items around the map to bolster their hive's defences, such as oreboxes and unbolted girders, being able to do ramshackle patch jobs as a non-drone by pulling something into place to block bullets and, if necessary, use it as mobile cover to push out unmolested.

[CaptainYankee]

Incredibly there are many things xenos can metagame without realizing it because this shit is written nowhere.

For example, you can't know about radiation so if a queen makes an engineering hive on big red you're just fucked, you can't mention the self destruct self destructing, if a xeno mentions something metagamey and you reply to it you're probably gonna get pinged for metagaming too, and so on.

Hahaha that's how it should work, the other day the queen sent out a detailed attack plan for the almayer before they launched the DS. Included things like where to go. SD or CIC based on landing location. Which decks to clear first. No one even blinked. No meta here!

[Torrentia]

Removing names/faces is genius. Ayys could still see weapons and armor and stuff, but truly they wouldn't be able to tell humans apart the same way we can't tell runner 69 from runner 420.

The other day I was travelling to the front with two Alphas whose names I've never seen before. We got killed and out of the three of us guess who got dragged like 100 ticks away...

[Troika]

Junk hives actually sound pretty cool.

[Dolth]

I miss the time where killing unarmed/peaceful humans was forbidden. And when meta as aliens was forbidden. (Before that dumb fog on LV and way beyond.)

Also there was that grey overlay sprite ontop of marines as a test. I think this still need to be readded.

[Royal Griffon]

the thing that REALLY urks me though about corpse dragging, is that everytime I have asked about it, there's 20 different answers and responses for it.
No admin or mod or mentor or dev has EVER given me a single definitive answer as to why it's allowed. They just say it's allowed and that's literally the only thing they have in common.
I've had one instance where a mentor told me it was bad, but that's not much.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Xenos are allowed to drag corpses wherever they want.

[Sleepy Retard]

Xenos are allowed to drag corpses wherever they want.

Thanks for really adding on to the discussion

[EmanTheAlmighty]

I personally always alternate between night vision and normal vision, so that I know which area is in the dark and which area I can be seen in.
If there's any dead body that emits light, and it is in a war zone, I will 100% move it away, have it be recently killed or already unrevivable. The light it emits is an unmeltable flare, and the least I can do is move it away.

I do not worry much about people getting revived, as actually winning is the least of my concerns. The more the fight can go on for the better. Sometimes I almost want to give up on capturing a human I already devoured and just bring it back to the marines.

So yes. In short, I'm doing it BeCAuSe oF tHe LiGhT! It's not an implausible concept, at least to me.

[Royal Griffon]

Xenos are allowed to drag corpses wherever they want.

10/10 the best answer I've gotten in all honesty

[Dolth]

Xenos are allowed to drag corpses wherever they want.

No metagaming or metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and/or voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.
Examples:
Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.

When you RP, you need a proof that your character has an actual reason to do something, such as moving a corpse, here, I quoted your own rules enforcing metagaming. If an alien drag a corpse to prevent defib, it's acting upon knowledge the xeno doesn't have, which falls into metagaming.

Tell me good sir, why are xenos allowed to do such as your rule, which I just quoted (and whereas the example fit), is allowed to do so?

► Show Spoiler

[CABAL]

10/10 the best answer I've gotten in all honesty

Meh, this one is much funnier:

The dead have no rights, Xenos are allowed to drag corpses all they want. It's your problem for dying in the first place. Defib's are not a right...

CAS strike on your ass? YOUR problem.

[Jeser]

We had nearly 10 different suggestions how to remove any reasons from aliens to drag off bodies when it's clearly metagaming in more than 50% of times. Some of them unnecessary complex, some are genuinly simple, but all of them have one thing in common. None was implemented, despite it's being an issue since pre-Alpha.

That what actually shows bad attitude from staff, really. Simply ignoring the problem. For years, now.

[Symbiosis]

No metagaming or metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and/or voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.
Examples:
Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.

When you RP, you need a proof that your character has an actual reason to do something, such as moving a corpse, here, I quoted your own rules enforcing metagaming. If an alien drag a corpse to prevent defib, it's acting upon knowledge the xeno doesn't have, which falls into metagaming.

Tell me good sir, why are xenos allowed to do such as your rule, which I just quoted (and whereas the example fit), is allowed to do so?

► Show Spoiler

Don’t expect an answer from MaskedMan. Throughout my time on the server they’ve merely been a parrot, spouting what they’re told.

They tend to vanish in the night when a question is thrown their way that requires formulative thought or can’t be answered by quoting a vague rule.

[Blade2000Br]

No metagaming or metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and/or voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.
Examples:
Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.

When you RP, you need a proof that your character has an actual reason to do something, such as moving a corpse, here, I quoted your own rules enforcing metagaming. If an alien drag a corpse to prevent defib, it's acting upon knowledge the xeno doesn't have, which falls into metagaming.

Tell me good sir, why are xenos allowed to do such as your rule, which I just quoted (and whereas the example fit), is allowed to do so?

► Show Spoiler

Ok, since you want a ruling about why they can drag bodies, I will give you your ruling:

We won't inforce because it's impossible and a dam hassle.

There are multiple variables when a body is being dragged, multiple reasonings that can be accounted for that and also the fact that you have to spend over than half an hour to try determinate if it was a meta or not.

Its the same case why we don't force marines to die to facehuggers when they fall into a trap. If no one knows what they are/saw someone die for it, it would be meta to go up and remove it. Now, we won't force the player to perma die so the others know hugger=Larva. So we allow the players to either RP it out and die, or go up and get a surgery.

We won't spend over half an hour to determinate a case of meta for dragging bodies. We will only tackle if it was perma killing bodies like husking.

It doesn't matter if you want to act like you know more and quote the rules on me, the ruling won't change. Dragging bodies is fair game and point.

[CABAL]

We had nearly 10 different suggestions how to remove any reasons from aliens to drag off bodies when it's clearly metagaming in more than 50% of times. Some of them unnecessary complex, some are genuinly simple, but all of them have one thing in common. None was implemented, despite it's being an issue since pre-Alpha.

That what actually shows bad attitude from staff, really. Simply ignoring the problem. For years, now.

It's not like they didn't do anything. There was update not long ago that gave a feature that prevents aliens from slashing dead marines, becouse it was common for Revagers to behead corpses and it was faster than dragging bodies. So "+" for devs.

For some reason xenos are treated like little babies. You can't tell them "don't do it", you have to mechanicaly make them unable to, or they will ignore anything. Few weeks ago nearly every round I played there was OOC message for benos to not drag bodies on the LZ. Staff have so little faith for xeno players that they think like: "If we will give them some inconvenience like restricting meta knowledge, then nobody would play it. We need to allow them to powergame as much as possible, becouse otherwise playing xenos is not fun, right"?