New term - the Rose Rush

[Aestel]

STOP USING YOUR BRAIN IT'S METAGAMING, WELLICK!

Indeed.

[Bancrose]

I always send two squads there, We shouldn't ban them solarmare because you'd ban all commanders for it. Just make it more difficult for them to get in there.

I don't personally agree with it. I wouldn't send them into the civ residence through the flank because I want an interesting round. That doesn't last 45 minutes.

But the North and South Civillian Residence maints bypass the hive completely. I've been through it a few times, and the xenos don't bother checking it nor do they bother fortifying it. The most I see there is some sticky resin and weeds.

Its a scummy thing to do I won't disagree with you on that but banning us for doing it seems like the wrong approach for it. The Crashed ship icly is the most important area to check first. My guess it would be how the station sent the distress beacon. I still have marines sweep the north and south because going through to the central ring and yard is annoying. But RPly sending two squads is good if you split them on the north and south. Its also where you get the most contact. Now the question is if you control the crashed ship as marines, do you rush the hive from one of those flanks?

[CSolaris]

Indeed.

YIKES

[TehSpoderman]

lol marines go to the crashed ship anyway.

[ThePiachu]

See, if Xenos could melt the blast doors like Padlocks on Big Red, there might be more flexibility to the map. Without that, you can't really do much to move your hive before the Marines rush you.

[Symbiosis]

Aaaand the Old Guard of CM is still strong.

Zero rule breaks.

The good old "I don't like what you did, it's not written anywhere, but you're getting a note and banned if you do something I don't like again."

Is this what CM is trying to be?

[CaptainYankee]

We had a player report made on Chubs a while back for a similar situation on Prison. As someone not in command I can't help but scratch my head. Runners screaming in vents and leading us further and further into the station. Taking captured marines at round start tells us excatly where the xenos are on prison. I don't like quick rounds like this, but the only real issue I can see is the CO coming down on deployment, which they have every right to do.

Quick Edit: Isn't it still metagaming if we avoid strategies we know are too effective?

[solidfury7]

All I will I say is, use caution when implementing "easy win" strategies.

They get boring very fast and they more than often end up with heavy nerfs to combat the shift.

Just watch what will happen to this new DS2 defence meme.

[Aestel]

Quick Edit: Isn't it still metagaming if we avoid strategies we know are too effective?

No, because increasing xeno winrates is not meta and the ones who enforce this shit are xeno mains. Even though they melt strategic walls, melt unused vendors, and in general prepare EXACTLY where we are going to land so they have the edge in every respect.

[Geikkamir]

Also I don't get it. I thought the idea was that Marines are stronger in the earlier part of the game and Xenos become strong later. What is the point of this philosophy if Marines are being literally forbidden by the rules from using their early game advantage?

[CaptainYankee]

No, because increasing xeno winrates is not meta and the ones who enforce this shit are xeno mains. Even though they melt strategic walls, melt unused vendors, and in general prepare EXACTLY where we are going to land so they have the edge in every respect.

It's always a shame to walk into medical and every vendor is missing. : (

[TheMaskedMan2]

I believe this is written down, it falls under rule 5.

► Show Spoiler

5. No metagaming or metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and/or voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.
Examples:
Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.
Examples that are NOT Metagaming:
Aliens slashing powered devices such as APCs, cameras, and lights.

Particularly this piece right here:
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.

[AmazinglyAmazing]

So here's what I'm getting from this:

Investigating a ship that has crashed into the side of a PRISON STATION that has gone dark with two or so squads is BAD because they will follow xenos, when xenos don't have to go to said area in the first place.

Also, it's fine for xenos to go to said crashed ship when if they've already been on the station for a brief period of time would've already known basically everyone near or in that ship was dead, so they'd have literally NO REASON TO INVESTIGATE IT TILL AFTER MARINES GET THERE. (Even though many times xenos will get to Engineering before Marines even get to the ship in the first place) This always results in marine losses and is usually the start of the hive's downfall. I can understand survivors hiding there, but by 12:35-12:40? Seriously?

And finally, it's BAD for marines to follow xenos back to their origin after said xenos foolishly and way too aggressively rush the ship, showing that they're a clear threat that needs obliterating? To be quite honest, (and take this with a grain of salt since I rarely play Xeno) that has to be the biggest load of bullshit I've seen on this forum since the whole CO PJ incident. I can usually keep my cool with shenanigans or flat out stupidity in-game and on the forums, but this is just- just fucking DUMB. Why would they NOT follow a clear threat after it just took out several of their men?! That makes ZERO sense besides the claim that "but Prison rounds will go too fast and always be easy for marines". THEN DON'T RUSH THE ONE AREA WHERE THIS COMMONLY HAPPENS. Marines usually hold the dropship and travel no further until they take contact or the rest of the ship is fully scouted. So 'marines rushing the hive from the dropship' isn't always a solid excuse for the hive to rush the ship.

As I said, Xenos don't HAVE to go to the ship immediately if OOCly they already know marines will GO there. Set up an ambush somewhere, set up resin walls, something BESIDES rushing the ship and/or Engineering (or the dropship) with your small as it is hive only to retreat and get followed, and to later complain about meta-rushing in dead-chat. (And by ambushing I don't mean camp Engineering to be 'the main hive' or trap the entire LZ with resin holes).

I'm done salting now.

[Symbiosis]

We had a player report made on Chubs a while back for a similar situation on Prison. As someone not in command I can't help but scratch my head. Runners screaming in vents and leading us further and further into the station. Taking captured marines at round start tells us excatly where the xenos are on prison. I don't like quick rounds like this, but the only real issue I can see is the CO coming down on deployment, which they have every right to do.

Quick Edit: Isn't it still metagaming if we avoid strategies we know are too effective?

Apophis at the time stated that they're going to clearly define what metagaming is.

It appears Solarmare is defining metagaming as following after Xenos that attack you. We'll need a Host ruling on this, apparently.

All I will I say is, use caution when implementing "easy win" strategies.

They get boring very fast and they more than often end up with heavy nerfs to combat the shift.

Just watch what will happen to this new DS2 defence meme.

It's quite funny, because the failure of the Xenos was due to them being big idiots. They literally had 3-4 T3's get caught out at the crashed ship; and a bunch of them fled right up to the hive.

The issue is the Map itself is so damn time you could probably fit three of it inside Big Red. Given we were at high pop (200+), finding the Hive is easy when the only way you can go is west. There is literally a single hive location. Remove the map from rotation.

[Symbiosis]

I believe this is written down, it falls under rule 5.

► Show Spoiler

5. No metagaming or metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and/or voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.
Examples:
Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.
Examples that are NOT Metagaming:
Aliens slashing powered devices such as APCs, cameras, and lights.

Particularly this piece right here:
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.

Ramboing is players going directly to the Hive after first contact.

It doesn't say anything about little brain Xenos attacking Marines and fleeing towards the Hive, slowly getting pushed back which leads them to the Hive.

Seriously. The subjective nature of "Ramboing" being pretzeled like this is hilarious.

They literally had a handful of T3's attacking Marines at the downed ship and trying to kill Marines. This wasn't the Marines seeing a Runner, then beelining to Lambda in a giant gaggle.

Stop being laughably bias.

[TehSpoderman]

All I will I say is, use caution when implementing "easy win" strategies.

They get boring very fast and they more than often end up with heavy nerfs to combat the shift.

Just watch what will happen to this new DS2 defence meme.

Why the fuck cant the xenos adapt? Marines are constantly asked to adapt, but when the marines use an actual strategy that works, its gets nerfed to hell.

[Sleepy Retard]

Last I heard ramboing was going off solo.

Rambo didn't have 40 men following him.

How is this ramboing?

[Lorem123]

I get that the admins are biased towards xenomorph players, but wanting to ban a competent CO just because they don't play like a complete moron and feed the xenos an entire squad 20 minutes into the operation seems absolutely ridiculous.
I've never had a round with Aestel as the CO that was bad, really. It's fast-paced and fun, just lighter on the RP. They act like a GOOD commander IRL would in most situations, and the xenos have consistently done stupid shit like try to bait a squad into the hive, only to have all 4 squads descend on the hive and wipe it out hard.

The last Prison round I had, this exact situation happened. I was a Charlie engineer, we went to the crashed ship with another squad, searched it, found a fucking DRONE CORPSE at the ship, then some runners and ravagers tried to harass us. We beat them back, then the CO orders us to push on towards the west of the station. It's a logical flow.

Marine players have been adapting to all the incredibly busted shit the xenos can do as best as they can, but using actual tactics and strategy is ban-worthy apparently.

[Slduggy]

Prison station is literally designed with blast doors to prevent the marines from metarushing down straight into the hive Via the yard to VIP, which are big open rooms which marines can fight in really well. Because of the blast doors marines are forced to skirmish in long 2x2 hallways which heavily favor xenos. If xenos lose this skirmish (which no robust hive should) of course the marines will be lead to the hive and be exterminated. The issue isnt with the COs tactics its with bad xenos against robust marines. Bad xenos =/= Metarush.

[Geikkamir]

I usually think the whole "xeno bias" whining is stupid but this is legitimately ridiculous, this CO is being punished simply for being competent, not even for actually breaking rules.

[Symbiosis]

For MaskedMan2 and whomever else was confused what Rambo'ing is.

This is a google image search for "Rambo".

I don't see Marine Platoons.

[Symbiosis]

[Sargash]

So, I'm assuming this might be related to the prison round a little bit ago, in which I watched, and observed a lot of it. Three squads were ordered to the crashed ship. No xenos were chased that way. Only one was engaged on the way their, a runner, which in fact. Led the marines to the south east portion, well, tried to. But it died. No one followed the runner, instead the continued on the path of best speed towards the crashed dropship. Where an ungodly amount of marines swarmed over three xenos. Everything outside of the doors were dead. A huge, almost probably 70% of the map was completely unexplored. As four squads were now at the podlocks, before the last xeno was even dead at the dropship, barricades were being contructed at the doors. Marines, at this point in time, had no real way of knowing there would be a huge force of xenos on the other side of those doors.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting them to ignore them, but when all four squads are at the podlocks before the hour, and they are almost fully reinforced, (besides center.) It's a little... Strange. The remainder of the map was left unexplored and untouched for the huge majority of the game. The second the doors drop, marines surged forward on two fronts. I don't know what happened north, but their was little combat that way, most of them seemed to have been pushed towards the center moments before the doors opened.

I think another point needs to be made. No xenos led any marines to the hive, and only away from the hive, as far as I could tell. The three at the crashed dropship (One of which actually fled east, or tried to) certainly didn't claw at the podlocks screaming "Our hive is behind here ahhh."

[Bancrose]

I believe this is written down, it falls under rule 5.

► Show Spoiler

5. No metagaming or metacommunication - Acting upon knowledge your character does not have or communicating information about the current round, including but not limited to private discussions, chat rooms, and/or voice chats during the game. If you want to talk to other CM players about CM or just in general, we have an official Discord, but keep the discussion about past rounds and never about the current one.
Examples:
Welding vents before seeing the aliens use them or before they've boarded the ship.
Building defenses on the ship before a hostile force is en route.
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.
Examples that are NOT Metagaming:
Aliens slashing powered devices such as APCs, cameras, and lights.

Particularly this piece right here:
"Ramboing" - Chasing down aliens immediately after first contact directly to their hive.

I don't think this entirely applies to the entire marine force. I think that was intended for just solo marines.

And is this suppose to be a rule for us to not punish xenos for mistakes? If a lone crusher rushes my squad on first contact and runs away. Are we suppose to let it run away otherwise we are breaking rules?

Like I get a lot of responses from admins saying a lot of our problems as marines are due to our incompetence (IE. Neth saying marines are retarded because Aliens flanked through LZ1 at 12:40). But it goes both ways ya know....I know you nerfed queen and maybe xenos are on the short end of the stick. But like...This one is borderline of the rules and player incompetence. I can't really tell but just a different perspective on it.

[Gray]

I think a lot of people and admins seem to have the mentality that "if marines roflstomp, then they broke some rule or abused some loophole."

A marine stomp doesn't seem to be accepted as a victory, it's either xenos stomp, or its an hour of back and forth before a side emerges victorious. Xenos stomping is accepted by everyone because xenos are supposed to be the stronger race, but when marine tactics overpower xenos power, it's cheating.