Formal Ruling on the Definition of Metarushing

[Karmac]

it's less of a ruling and more of an excuse

[Symbiosis]

This is the ruling, reason and why we enforce the way we do.

It's no use making a entire announcements post to write basically what could be resumed like that. You asked for a ruling, you got it. If you disagree with it, then that's other problem.

It’s not a ruling. It’s obfuscation plain and simple.

If you’re saying there is no ruling so that Admins can pick and choose when to punish something they don’t like, that’s what we’re speaking out against.

If you can’t see how that’s wrong, I don’t see how or why there’s a point in you trying to carry on an honest conversation regarding this.

[Gnorse]

On maps like LV and prison with mechanical timelocks set in place, meta-rushing is not a thing. at all.
not only do the timelocks physically PREVENT marines from going anywhere, those two maps in question are so small that there is no way to go except forward, which is where the xeno hive is.

[Tharinoma]

There is no written formal ruling on what metarushing is to my knowledge.

Alhough it hasn't been validated by managers, here's a reasonably accurate version :
Rushing to a position or state of being in order to gain a fighting advantage, using meta-information your character(s) do not have IC, ignoring other obvious paths, items, locations or objectives and roleplay in the process.

Examples :
Sending all squads to the same location because you know that's where the xenos are going to be.
Not scouting a part of the map at all because you know xenos aren't going to be there
Sending a squad to a particular place because you know there will be strong gear to recover there
Sending a squad to fortify a location because you know it will give you a strong tactical advantage against xenos
Sending a squad to flank the caves because you know xenos don't usually protect their flank when they hive in that area

Xenomorphs heavily rely on time to become powerful, while the marines start at their best. One of the advantages of this is even if the xenos are going to win the round swiftly and easily, the marines (main characters of the story) will still have time to play and roleplay, as the xenos will need some amount of time before they can beat them.

The game is roleplay focused and the balance of the game heavily relies on marines roleplaying properly. This proved to not be the case every round so mechanics were implemented to keep the game flow in check. However, there is no way to force roleplay on 80 players just with mechanics while keeping the roleplay possibilities as wide as they currently are (or we just didnt figure it out yet), so some of the metarushing is still being enforced through OOC staff intervention.

[Karmac]

tl;dr

game is dumb and balanced poorly

[Grubstank]

This is the ruling, reason and why we enforce the way we do.

It's no use making a entire announcements post to write basically what could be resumed like that. You asked for a ruling, you got it. If you disagree with it, then that's other problem.

You've posted an opinionated tirade, not a ruling.

A ruling is something that lays out punishment/action for specific measurable circumstances
If you consider "yeah, we'll ban you if we don't like what we see" to be a ruling, then you seriously need to reevaluate yourself.

Edit: didn't read through the whole thread. What Tharinoma posted at least lists circumstances/context.

[Aestel]

Examples :
Sending all squads to the same location because you know that's where the xenos are going to be.
Not scouting a part of the map at all because you know xenos aren't going to be there
Sending a squad to a particular place because you know there will be strong gear to recover there
Sending a squad to fortify a location because you know it will give you a strong tactical advantage against xenos
Sending a squad to flank the caves because you know xenos don't usually protect their flank when they hive in that area

Xenomorphs heavily rely on time to become powerful, while the marines start at their best. One of the advantages of this is even if the xenos are going to win the round swiftly and easily, the marines (main characters of the story) will still have time to play and roleplay, as the xenos will need some amount of time before they can beat them.

The game is roleplay focused and the balance of the game heavily relies on marines roleplaying properly. This proved to not be the case every round so mechanics were implemented to keep the game flow in check. However, there is no way to force roleplay on 80 players just with mechanics while keeping the roleplay possibilities as wide as they currently are (or we just didnt figure it out yet), so some of the metarushing is still being enforced through OOC staff intervention.

See, those examples can be pretzeled into a ban no matter what. Everyone who fortifies hydro on LV is guilty under that definition, everyone who goes to any location remotely fortifiable, everyone that uses a semblance of tactics aside from unga charging headfirst into the xenos because the xenos might not be covering their flank, which is kind of the idea behind a flank. Maneuver warfare is literally a 20th century concept, it’s fair to say it might be taught in officer training.

Not every building needs to be scouted with the same priority. Big red has the research labs which are high priority for research, LV gets scouted due to the fog, Ice you are effectively sacrificing squads to do it, and prison is a giant circle which has two targets: the ship, and the classified area which you do not want to send marines to if you signed the NDA that CLs push every round. You will encounter xenos about half way into that circle no matter which way you go, the problem is that if you do not contain them, you will get torn apart because of how bad the map is designed.


I think the admins honestly have a serious disconnect on the amount of RP that is actually possible on the ground. If you play suboptimally against a competent queen, you WILL lose the ground before 12:50 as seen on the prison round yesterday with two squads decimated when I did the only thing that I was allowed to which was go north. Hell, your FOB won’t even be done by the time they get to LZ1. Even early, all it takes to win as xeno is group up and deathball. Only way to win as a marine early against that is catch it on multiple fronts in an advantageous position. I have been COing or aCOing for 20 rounds a week for the last four months, and SL for a year before that, I can recognize patterns when I see them.

This is why the community wants a 100% crystal clear ruling on the matter. No room for opinions on this, and don’t use the dev time excuse either , changing the pod lock/dropship timer is one variable that would take a few minute to edit.

[Davidchan]

Senior staff needs to make a judgement call here.

Personally, I don't see the point in attempting to ban Marines for trying to stop a round from turning into a 4 hour sludgefest. If we want to give Xenos 20-30 minutes to set up, weed the entire map and lay eggs everywhere, then change the pacing of how Marine round start goes.

When Marines wake up, let it be known that Dropships can't launch until 12:30 or 12:45 or what ever magic number people decide on. Marines can go grab food (preferably having a better dining area with food out ready to go and not a conga line for the vendors.) Marines get time to eat, chat with their squadmates and attempt something resembling RP. Marines get on Uniform and go to Briefing. Require only Jumpsuits and boots (and tags) for Briefing and make it an actual formation like any military briefing should be. Commander giving rundown of the mission thus far and need to know info. Marines then go to their prep rooms, gear up and hit Req for attachments. (For the love of god, move RDS to marine vendors), ETA 5 minutes Marines begin boarding shuttles and make preps for final touch down. An ARES scan before departure would make more IC sense to at least confirm if there are any survivors.

Boom. No more need for 'metarushing' or some other excuse to punish marines for playing the game as it allows them. Xenos get a chance to do their thing undisturbed, Fogs and locks can be disabled and Marines can move into Colony/Station at whatever pace they choose. Xenos don't have the excuse to hide in their hive till they start getting mature or elite and nobody gets salty because someone ran to an area too early.

[adrenalinetooth]

*Boop

There's a general time we aim for when it comes to round lengths, which literally every game in the world has a general length of time they aim for.

From a wider perspective this is absolutely retarded. Sure, all games have an aimed time but they don't throw in random people and expect constant results. Short rounds only happen when one side is much worse than the other leading in a stompfest, or 'rushing' as we would like to call it here.

Because CM devs are aware they cannot rely on there always being balanced sides to make sure the front lines don't crumble in minutes, they decided to rely on mechanics instead of the players like every other game out there does.

Let's look at other games for example.
A round in a game like Natural Selection 2 lasts about 30-45 minutes but with unbalanced teams the marine base or hive is rushed in 5 minutes flat.

Any video game out there has a system TO BALANCE THE PLAYERS, and not fiddle with mechanics to maintain the desired round time.

League of legends uses an ELO system to make teams even for example. Another example is most Team Fortress 2 servers scramble and assign teams evenly based on player score.

However, CM cannot scramble because people want to play desired roles on a specific team or group. We sacrifice preference for compency in exchange for letting everyone have a go at that important role they want.

A right step in preventing rushes is simply adding more learning resources for players to get better. If an alien knows how to play well, they will have no problem in stopping a rush, and vice versa with marines.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

The more admins try to explain this without actually giving a proper definition, the more absurd this becomes.This should of been done a long long time ago, as you can see they tried to sort it out with map mechanics rather than just defining what they claim as "metarushing" in the first place.

Sending a squad to fortify a location because you know it will give you a strong tactical advantage against xenos

This happens on LV almost every single round with marines at HYDRO and xenoes at TFORT, is that "metarushing" yet? Or not quite, maybe another 1000 rounds of it?

It was just a few rounds ago that i saw the section between the north hydro doors and fog being caded before it dropped, however many xenoes were just on the other side screaming at the marines for a while.Should that have been punishable? It fits your parameter doesnt it? And if so, why wasnt it dealt with? Its one thing to say these points on the forums, but are they actually being enforced or are they just empty words?

Not scouting a part of the map at all because you know xenos aren't going to be there

This happens alot on both sides for alot of reasons, but when was the last time a admin actually punished a player for this? Probably a long time ago.

Sending a squad to flank the caves because you know xenos don't usually protect their flank when they hive in that area

Hang on, isnt that the same flank as you just described, the kind of location we should be scouting but we arent?

Xenomorphs heavily rely on time to become powerful, while the marines start at their best. One of the advantages of this is even if the xenos are going to win the round swiftly and easily, the marines (main characters of the story) will still have time to play and roleplay, as the xenos will need some amount of time before they can beat them.

The game is roleplay focused and the balance of the game heavily relies on marines roleplaying properly. This proved to not be the case every round so mechanics were implemented to keep the game flow in check. However, there is no way to force roleplay on 80 players just with mechanics while keeping the roleplay possibilities as wide as they currently are (or we just didnt figure it out yet), so some of the metarushing is still being enforced through OOC staff intervention.

Ok, ok, fair enough. Would if be fair to say then and would you agree.That because xenoes arent "expected" to or "rely" on RP, then anything they do that would be classed as "meta" for the marines, isnt "meta" for the xenoes?

Im almost in the middle on this, as i dont really like that players are being punished for winning rounds with tactics that admins are claiming is "metarushing" on maps with actives ways of preventing "metarushing".

Its also clear that a round time length is in mind, for the admins atleast, and also trying to achieve more dynamic rounds over static ones, which is something i definitely am for.

[Aestel]

Senior staff needs to make a judgement call here.

Personally, I don't see the point in attempting to ban Marines for trying to stop a round from turning into a 4 hour sludgefest.

Boom. No more need for 'metarushing' or some other excuse to punish marines for playing the game as it allows them. Xenos get a chance to do their thing undisturbed, Fogs and locks can be disabled and Marines can move into Colony/Station at whatever pace they choose. Xenos don't have the excuse to hide in their hive till they start getting mature or elite and nobody gets salty because someone ran to an area too early.

From the manager I talked to, he seemed to be of the mind that metarushing didn’t exist today because we already enforce the 12:25 timer, and pod lock system which was implemented to stop ACTUAL metarushing which was briefing at 12:10 deployment at 12:15 in a time where there was no barriers. It is an outdated concept enforced by admins that were around during that time.

4 hour rounds are the opposite effect, it is frankly boring as fuck, and over 3/4ths of the server pop is in dchat because it gets to the point where neither side can decisively end the round due to the risk aversion of the remaining marines, and the lack of numbers for the xenos.

A more reasonable suggestion is to nerf elite/ancient xenos and increase xeno evolution to balance the early/late game power curve but that is another topic entirely.

A standard mrp regular ss13 round lasts forty to and hour and a half, we honestly don’t have anything interesting to do for 30-40 minutes if we increase the dropship time. Hell, I am typically AFK for the first ten minutes in a standard round because there isn’t much to do aside from an announcement, get the TC/req organized, and sign the CLs paper before he disappears forever as CO. I have all of my plans pre-generated in a word document depending on the map, and the briefings associated with them already written. Marines typically just fight each other or piss off the MPs because once they get their attachments, that’s it.


The thing is, when xeno competency is the same or exceeds that of marines, the hive will win every time. See any Symb round as he seems to be the only good queen left. I struggle against him as CO even if I implement “metarushing” tactics. The only way marines CAN win is through outsmarting the xenos, there is no winning a straight up fight since the AP nerfs back in February.

[Tharinoma]

Any rule related to metagaming, which obviously includes metarushing, cannot be perfectly enforced by human beings, one of the simple reasons being that we cannot read the minds of our players.
I have posted a few explanations about this on this thread, should you be interested : http://cm-ss13.com/viewtop ... 50#p209026

Everyone acknowledges that staff had to make a judgement call when judging a potential metarush situation. Staff also recognises that sometimes, staff fucks up.
This is why any metarushing issue is discussed internally before a decision is made, why the metarushing issues generally are frequently discussed internally. And why they are sometimes discussed externally.

So yes, what is and is not metarushing is not absolutely clear. Fortifying hydro before the fog goes down is OK. Sending all squads ASAP to lambda labs cause you know the xenos are there isn't. Fortifying LZs upon landing is fine.

We don't ban people on the spot for metarushing on their first offense. We know some things are not written anywhere and you just need playtime experience to know them. We don't punish players that use common sense, even when they're in the wrong. People that metarush get warned before anything. Whitelisted, experienced players that know exaclt what they're doing get warned too. They get plenty of warnings to clear things up and discuss them before any hard punishments are given out.
Please do remember that staff memers have a brain too, and aren't completely dumb (at least 90%, no I won't give out names here, they know who they are). We're not actively trying to ban people for the slightest reason. We use common sense and take the player's point of view into account.

Staff faces the exact same problem with improper escalation. When is it OK to pull out your shotgun and blast off the head of your SL? Ater he punched you once? Three times? ten times? Knifed you? Shot you first? But you stole the tank... Or tried to secure it? or blew up the cover? to creat a flank! But he told you not to... Still not a reason for him to punch you! But now he's dead...
In these situations, both player have a good reason for all of their actions, that lead to the death of a player. We have to look into the issue and judge wether the situation was acceptable and should be left IC or if a player broke the escalation rules. Most of the time, both players are convinced they are right and the other is wrong. And yes, sometimes the staff makes the wrong decision, and (rarely, this doen't happen often) a player ends up banned when he shouldn't.

Staff having a high amout of responsability when it comes to dealing with these issues is widely known. There is a recruitment process with an application that takes time, then a long trial period for the new staff member to adapt and learn. Everyone helps out each other and potential abusive situations are always reported to higher ranking staff memers.


About commanders, they are whitelisted players who are supposed to be reasonnably good RPers, rule abiding and responsible. They should be the ones helping the round flow in the right direction. They have a very high amount of power when it comes to sending squad around and they should, at the very least, ensure basic orders are given in a way that corresponds to the level of roleplay and common sense the game is meant to aim for.

If you have an idea for a new rule or mechanic to help prevent metarushing issues, you are welcome to discuss it (again, politely, reasonnably, and at least a tiny bit intelligently) on the forums or make a ticket on the gitlab.

[Aestel]

This is a definable, quantifiable situation though. This ain’t a case of escalation since we are role playing a combat drop. We are going into this expecting contacts until proven otherwise. You say you have a goal for round length, devs a year ago did as well, and guess what they did: they added the pod locks, and drop-ship in accordance with that. Easy. Done. No more metarushing. You guys are chasing a ghost that was fixed a long time ago.

If the old wound has since resurfaced due to balance changes, the burden of fixing it is on the ones who broke it to begin with, not COs/SLs to artificially hold back for “high rp”, which ironically is probably the lowest form of rp you can do as a military leader especially when it applies only to marines.

The case that started this whole clusterfuck was not me sending every squad to the crashed ship, Solar said it himself, I am not allowed to send even two squads to a single location. I’d grab his exact quote but I am on my phone.

[Nickvr628]

But that ruling is not even a proper answer, all it says is:

"There's a general time we aim for when it comes to round lengths, which literally every game in the world has a general length of time they aim for."

Would you mind telling us this so we could aim for that length? We want a number or some other quantifiable thing that lets know what is or is not metarushing. Threatening to ban players who work COMPLETELY WITHIN your already existing timelocks because they are "metarushing" is just shitty behavior. You already have IC limits on metarushing with the time locks, but apparently according to some staff members they are not enough, so change them IC, or tell us what to do so we are not looking over our shoulder for bwoinks any time we issue a command.

Vague and broad answers do not help us.

[Tharinoma]

If your issue is with what you were told to do or not do by a staff member, you can make a report about it. Managers will look into it and fix whatever needs to be fixed.

Vague and broad answers is the only thing you can possibly get. We are talking about META-rushing. This means actively using metaknowlegde. Determining if someone is or is not using that knowledge to make a decision in game is hard. There is no way for us to quantify it, we cannot read minds.

Some of you seem be be thinking that we define metarushing as doing something before a certain time. That is not the case. It is defined by doing something fast, in order to win, without your character having enough IC information for him to make that decision.

The game was not designed for players that min max their advantages in order to win. If that's what you enjoy, you're probably not playing the right game.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Vague and broad answers is the only thing you can possibly get. We are talking about META-rushing. This means actively using metaknowlegde. Determining if someone is or is not using that knowledge to make a decision in game is hard. There is no way for us to quantify it, we cannot read minds.

Some of you seem be be thinking that we define metarushing as doing something before a certain time. That is not the case. It is defined by doing something fast, in order to win, without your character having enough IC information for him to make that decision.

Ok, but im talking about this kind of quite obvious, seemingly "legal meta" ,

On LV almost every single round with marines at HYDRO and xenoes at TFORT, is that "metarushing"?

Should that be punishable? It fits your parameter doesnt it?

Could you answer this question.

[Symbiosis]

If you have an idea for a new rule or mechanic to help prevent metarushing issues, you are welcome to discuss it (again, politely, reasonnably, and at least a tiny bit intelligently) on the forums or make a ticket on the gitlab.

Simple.

Fueling the dropship requires more time.... or have the earlier Xenos evolve quicker and take longer to reach ancient/elite (T2/T3) if you don’t want Marines twiddling their thumbs.

The 4 squad to Lambda Unga can be effective. OR disasterous.

If the Hive is in research you’ve stretched your forces and they’ll get picked off moving to other Hive locations. Marines have ultra ADHD.

The problem isn’t meta rushing. Any Hive worth it’s salt can maneuver way quicker than the Marines and dismantle them with ease. Only the tank presents a serious risk to the Hive.

The problem is bad Queens/Hives and slow evolution rates early on. You can address them quite easily with a few minutes of editing variables.


IF you want to, that is. I think that it is the most logical solution. Rather than, as you mentioned not being a mind reader, trying to read the mind of every Admin online before you issue orders.


Your Playerbase isn’t trying to maliciously dismantle your game. Some players LOVE Aestell (except the Xeno mains), some players LOVE Tex (except the first squad he sends to their doom), and some Xenos prefer a Queen that stays in Ovi all round... I’ve been told by a few Xenos they dislike me playing Queen. It happens.

We can’t make everyone happy - players or staff. No ones trying to maliciously ruin the game. We’re all here to play and have fun.

Make sensical game adjustments to minimalize the impact of smart strategies that are viewed negatively as meta rushing without compromising the core integrity of the game we enjoy.

[Tharinoma]

Fortifying hydro is not considered metarushing. There obviously is some kind of meta behind it, but for a group of marines responding to a distress call on a seemingly empty colony with blood and gibs in the nexus, it is ruled completely reasonable to reinforce the outer dome of the colony.

Xenos being at tfort isn't meta at all, they know the marines are here already and know all the tactical value of the spot from fighting colonists.

Some of your ideas might be good Symbiosis, but this thread isn't the place to discuss them. And I don't recall any staffmember claiming our playerbase was trying to do anything like that.

[Aestel]

If your issue is with what you were told to do or not do by a staff member, you can make a report about it. Managers will look into it and fix whatever needs to be fixed.

Vague and broad answers is the only thing you can possibly get. We are talking about META-rushing. This means actively using metaknowlegde. Determining if someone is or is not using that knowledge to make a decision in game is hard. There is no way for us to quantify it, we cannot read minds.

Some of you seem be be thinking that we define metarushing as doing something before a certain time. That is not the case. It is defined by doing something fast, in order to win, without your character having enough IC information for him to make that decision.

You have literally changed the goal posts, Emerald specifically said that they have a goal for round length, so there must be a number associated with that goal or it’s a cope out answer. The community seems to believe that your answer isn’t good enough, hence why we are asking for a concrete definition from a head, and honestly I think this one should come from Rahl himself. This clearly is quantifiable or barriers would not have been placed to mechanically stop it. The longer this goes on the more it seems like an excuse to wield the ban hammer.

Half your staff, and 90% of the community don’t even think it still exists as a concept. So clearly there is miscommunication somewhere in the chain. I am not a mind reader, so how the fuck can I be expected to read the minds of the admins on what is accepted, and what is not when you don’t even know as a collective.

[NethIafins]

If I may say something here.

Before I became mod I noticed a terrible trend on LV-624 the week after the fog was added. EVERY round on it immediately started as soon as fog dropped. 12:45? Fog dissapears? Well time to make boilershots.
And all that was the day because we had no map pick after the game.

So let's say we set rule, if you attack hive before 12:45 on any map or if you attack marine dropship before 12:45, you will be poked for metarushing. That might (I'm not saying it will, but LV experience says it will) force both teams to fight at exactly that timemark, so noone gets poked for metarushing.

Let's say we add a rule that either sufficient time (1 hour) has passed or information was provided either by xeno (marine) or survivor(noone from the xeno side) about whereabouts of the opposing team. Then some players can cheat about it ("oh I saw xeno running to lambda") and boy we don't want to store movement logs because they are already freaking huge

You are telling balance is fucked? Almost certainly it is, by definition. You can't easily balance 2 teams with different abilities AND skill levels. Also don't forget about latency and occasional lag issues.
Can we do better? yes, but if you ask people around, majority will ask about new features, and believe me, balancing will NEVER take just 1 month and "oh just get 5-10 people who will guide the balancing stuff" because they will tell you different things

Most of you who are responding here, think about this game as some competitive sport. Who wins? enos or Unga? But e-sport this isn't. This is the place where people come to have fun (at least try), and if one team gets curbstomped that team will have NO fun. Most of you here (and I know that because I see most of you in game) play this game more than one time a day, but others come here for one round (I know because I was like this, and I am still like this besides ghosting to mod) and if that round is fucked... well you know. Ofcourse you can die in one hit, but if entire team of people that play "that one round" gets fucked... well we have to intervene, mostly to see if this thing happened before with same CO/XO/Queen and/or last round. If it happened before, that might be a trend that we want not to remove but to make more rare.

What can help this in my opinion is bigger maps, BUT game maps are already hitting BYOND-CM max size (of no significant lag) and we won't make maps that span Z-levels (probably)

That's my opinon

[NethIafins]

The 4 squad to Lambda Unga can be effective. OR disasterous.

There is currently no tool to make 3 squad early unga disasterous. There is no tool to make early beno camp at LZ disasterous

Your Playerbase isn’t trying to maliciously dismantle your game. Some players LOVE Aestell (except the Xeno mains), some players LOVE Tex (except the first squad he sends to their doom), and some Xenos prefer a Queen that stays in Ovi all round... I’ve been told by a few Xenos they dislike me playing Queen. It happens.

We can’t make everyone happy - players or staff. No ones trying to maliciously ruin the game. We’re all here to play and have fun.

Make sensical game adjustments to minimalize the impact of smart strategies that are viewed negatively as meta rushing without compromising the core integrity of the game we enjoy.

Thanks, this means a lot at least to me

[Tharinoma]

I don't know if there's an official round length goal, but it's obviously something around 2-3 hours.

Everyone knows that fortifying hydro is OK and rushing all 4 squads to the hive as soon as you land isn't.

Asking for precise and quantified rulings for everything on a game like SS13 just isn't reasonable. Add metagaming to it, it becomes stupid.

[Aestel]

I don't know if there's an official round length goal, but it's obviously something around 2-3 hours.

Everyone knows that fortifying hydro is OK and rushing all 4 squads to the hive as soon as you land isn't.

Asking for precise and quantified rulings for everything on a game like SS13 just isn't reasonable. Add metagaming to it, it becomes stupid.

We aren’t asking for a ruling on everything. Just this one, and it’s coming from both a queen main, and a CO main. Both sides want this for numerous tactical reasons, and different people play ss13 for different reasons. I personally enjoy the strategic aspect behind playing CO and running a proper operation without the memery that other COs do. That is why I tend to be either in the CiC or on the front. That is what I enjoy on CM. I am sure symb likes doing the same from the other side. Implementing proper strategies and using your head is not threatening the integrity of the role play on the server.

Now, why is fortifying hydro not considered meta, but going to the crashed ship is? Both are at the edge of the areas you can access, and offer a decent place to hold. The only difference I can see is LV is worse because there are other options.

[Casany]

Honestly I’d rather have them give us a time that we’re allowed to attack at rather than give vague answers.

I remember when Metarushing was an ACTUAL thing, when marines would rush at 12:15 and crush xenos. And before that you’d have survivors killing xenos and winning the round on rare occasions. Even back then, it was an issue that was hard to decide on. Until mechanics were added to prevent it. But I guess mechanical solutions don’t allow admins to flex their banhammer enough so they gotta ignore the mechanics. Cross the river after the fog has dropped? Metarushing. Attack the xenos when the pod locks go down? Metarushing.

What’s the point of mechanical solutions if they’re just ignored.

[NethIafins]

We aren’t asking for a ruling on everything. Just this one, and it’s coming from both a queen main, and a CO main. Both sides want this for numerous tactical reasons, and different people play ss13 for different reasons. I personally enjoy the strategic aspect behind playing CO and running a proper operation without the memery that other COs do. That is why I tend to be either in the CiC or on the front. That is what I enjoy on CM. I am sure symb likes doing the same from the other side. Implementing proper strategies and using your head is not threatening the integrity of the role play on the server.

Problem is your strategies (both from good CO and good Queen) can hit onto terrible opponent command and completely wipe side that is not ready because their command sucks

Now, why is fortifying hydro not considered meta, but going to the crashed ship is? Both are at the edge of the areas you can access, and offer a decent place to hold. The only difference I can see is LV is worse because there are other options.

Because hydro is an obvious building that you can see. It is in a middle of built area. Also if you defend it you won't make it terrible for Xeno team as there is almost no chance that hive is located there. Xeno side in this case has a chance.
Crashed ship on Prison is located pretty far away and also it is dangerous, however I do agree that the ship that is stated in the sub-briefing should be closer to marine side of map to reduce metarush reasonings