Are MPs Supposed to be Antagonists?

[LittleBlast]

Each and Every single round latley, I have seen the MPs arrest just about the entire command staff for minor offenses and put them on maximum charges. This past round I was in, they threatened to arrest the RO For neglect of duty because he came up to the CIC For a few minutes when there were no orders coming in. They arrested a LT Earlier for "Talking about pay cuts" And gave them a max length Hooliganism Charge. They later arrested me for Saying that the MPs were Corrupt, and some marines saying over some comms to "Kill MPs" (Completely not my intention - I specifically said to avoid the MPs). Latley, MPs have been acting as Antagonists who simply want to stroke their justice boners, and since they dont have to answer to anybody, there is no way to counteract this. Yes, they TECHNICALLY, were doing their jobs, however they were simply trying to arrest people to piss them off.

Thoughts? Do you agree MPs have become Mini-Antagonists recently? Any suggestions on how to make it so that the entirity of command staff isnt arrested and unable to do anything because the WO Decided to RP as a "Oh you stepped with your left foot instead of your right foot, 10 minute hooliganism sentence it is!" Kind of MP?

[Casany]

Yes.

Especially MPs like Tex and Alberto Lineman, those guys love to be antagonistic.

This brings to mind the recent staff report. Whilst I agree completely the guy who was arrested was shit and deserved a permaban for what he pulled, he got put into perma for whacking a window with shoes four times. And the admins didn't care.

The problem is marine law can be pretzeled into allowing anyone to be arrested for nothing. If you curse on comms to no one in particular? You could be arrested for disrespect because you might have been directing it to the SO! Take out your gun in briefing to put attachments on it? Prepare to get arrested and get your gun taken away if Lineman is online! Hit a window with a satchel? That's damage to government property, twenty minutes for you! FF a marine? Assault, because they can't read your mind and know if you did it with ill intent or not! Yell oorah in briefing? Hooliganism. Go to CIC as RO during some downtime? Neglect of duty. Get pushed into the CIC as a marine? Tresspassing. Drop your gun in briefing? Unsecured equipment. Die? Neglect of Duty. Not follow an order in a split second? Insub.

You see where I'm going with this. Literally, you can arrest anyone for most anything if you know how to twist the law. Remember when toeing the line and rule lawyering were against the rules? Nah, not anymore.

[Maxim Inc]

I used to jump into the MP role for about 30% of my play time when I first started to play CM but now I barely ever do it the last time was a month ago all beause of how the new justice boner MP's have left a bad taste in my mouth when I try to RP my arrest or the arrest of another and there just like (YOU BREAK CRIME! *TAZE *ARREST SHUT UP LAWBREAKER! *insert outrageous brig sentence ) I hope that they can create some sort of system to reign in the MP's. Also I've noticed that MP's have been acting as a sort of "commanding" by hanging out in REQ and other such things to arrest people for the littlest things.

[Symbiosis]

The issue is that MPs and the CMP have free reign of the ship.

Before Lordington rewrote Marine law they had to work WITH the Crew, specifically Command.

Now they can view ANY order or argument given as an NJP and suddenly you have a death squad full of staff members killing you and the crew without any sort of defense IC or OOC if you dare to resist.

Yes. MPs have been built to be antagonists.

[CCRWasHere]

I agree that the law enforcers are too harsh.
It’s almost like we’re in the military or something.

[Casany]

I agree that the law enforcers are too harsh.
It’s almost like we’re in the military or something.

Yeah they’d totally arrest the entire command team of the CIC during an active military operation because one of the SOs called an MP a cunt and the XO advised marines to avoid the MPs.

Seems logical for the military

[Lorem123]

MPs are almost always bad. Sometimes you get funny ones like the one with the nickname 'Hotwheels' who just fucks around and gives reasonable brig timers or dumb NJP's like 'You have to take off your shoes' or 'Eat ten EAT bars'.
Most of the time they just look for reasons to ruin the round by brigging squad leaders, specs, tank crewmen, command staff, or engies/medics.

[Nickvr628]

I remember the time I got brigged for about 300 minutes as the only PO, because two marines got squished under my dropship when I landed on the ship...

[LittleBlast]

I remember the time I got brigged for about 300 minutes as the only PO, because two marines got squished under my dropship when I landed on the ship...

Yeah that is absolutely ridiculous. There needs to be something that you can do to deal with Shitty MPs beyond admin helping.

[Kasius]

Just ignore the MPs. Don't talk to them, don't acknowledge them, imagine they aren't even there.

I've seen rounds where marines have done this and they end up bored and cryo'ing.

Everyone knows that MPs are Xeno Mains that are there to disrupt marines anyways. OORAH!

[Davidchan]

Watching a CMP arrest a PO for insubordination just flabbergasted me. PO outranks CMP and I don't know where this 'WO is like a LCDR' comes from because a that literally not how any of this works. How is an RP role making even less RP on the server and only serves to break immersion and fun?

[Dothal]

Watching a CMP arrest a PO for insubordination just flabbergasted me. PO outranks CMP and I don't know where this 'WO is like a LCDR' comes from because a that literally not how any of this works. How is an RP role making even less RP on the server and only serves to break immersion and fun?

On the old ranks page on the wiki it said the WO had an effective rank of LCDR and also outranked any crew members in matters of space law. As far as I know, with the new ranks page the effective LCDR is no longer the case and POs now outrank WOs (outside of space law matters)

Edit: I just checked the ranks page again and from my interpretation they're equal rank now (both support officers). There's a bit about the WO being treated with the same respect as an LCDR but it doesn't say they have the authority of one.

[Retrokinesis]

It still says that... kind of? The problem is it's rather ambiguous. The exact text on the wiki is:

"Warrant Officers are separate from both the officer and enlisted ranks within the USCM. Their commissions is issued through 'Warrant' within their specific field as recognition of their expertise, as opposed to a standard officer’s commission. Generally, they are considered to outrank all enlisted personnel, and are afforded the same respect and deference as a Lieutenant Commander. They outrank everyone in matters related to their specialty (in the case of the Chief MP, Marine Law) but must still follow the orders of their superiors in all other matters."

What, exactly, that means is... arguable and ambiguous, which is a problem. They outrank all enlisted personnel, that much is explicit. But what does "the same respect and deference as a Lieutenant Commander" mean? The CMP, POs, TCs, and RO are all support officers, which means they have explicit authority over their own departments only and must obey all command officers. But the ensigns are all higher than the CMP in the chain of command and the SOs are both higher still and actual command officers (not support officers), despite being Lieutenants. Does that mean a SO (a Lieutenant) can be brigged for disrespect towards the CMP (kind-of-sort-of a Lieutenant Commander) despite having explicit authority to command them? And the CMP has to follow the orders of their superiors, but who exactly counts? If you go by chain of command, it's quite a few people. If you go by the CMP being a support officer, it's SOs and the XO and the CO. If you go by the "effectively a Lieutenant Commander" thing it's the CO only.

This is the kind of thing that an official ruling could solve fairly easily, which would at bare minimum clear up some conflicts.

[HBlokkum]

MPs are almost always bad. Sometimes you get funny ones like the one with the nickname 'Hotwheels' who just fucks around and gives reasonable brig timers or dumb NJP's like 'You have to take off your shoes' or 'Eat ten EAT bars'.
Most of the time they just look for reasons to ruin the round by brigging squad leaders, specs, tank crewmen, command staff, or engies/medics.

Next time I see you in game I’m going to make you eat twenty E.A.T. bars for your insolence

[Kesserline]

Just saying :
don't break marine law, and MPs can't do shit against you.

It's simple as that.

I mean come on, I never play MP 'cause I don't give a shit and I don't want to babysit ungas. So many of you are looking for trouble and sniffing glue on purpose. Grow a pair and assume the consequences of what you did, like adults.

I went like less than 10 times to brig, and each fucking time I deserved it. Also gave me time to make some decent RP.

You're all grapes to me if you keep looking for shit and then complaining about getting flashed/tazed.

[Bancrose]

To be quite frank, MP's can't really arrest you as the CO/XO/SO because you outrank all of them.

Go ahead and call them a cunt, but do know that if you fuck up. They are going to go out of their way to make sure your in the brig for as long as possible.

As of Lately. I think MP's have calmed down since Rahl threatened them that if they kept acting like complete dickheads that he would give us CO's the ability to BE them again. Of course there will always be dickheads who play MP and it won't really affect them. Not a horrible one to say but one that rubs me the wrong way like Rex Texas that get off to the thought of playing some Sheriff from a Western Frontier Town. Spitting some Chewing tobacco on the floor and saying "I am the law."

But its only been a case of a few bad apples. The only thing I see antagonistic about MPs, Is that they go down planet side and just try their hardest to fuck the op. There is some guy named Gregory Bush who was firing his taser at marines on the front lines during a FOB defense. Trying desperately to get the CL who was handing out Ultrazine. Other than him and a few minor shenanigans. I haven't really had any issues with how the MP's are. But they should know if they try and go full Awan or Knight on us, I hope Rahl would reconsider removing the BE protections on MP's.

And News Flash. I'm going to shoot the next MP that fires his taser at the front lines. Or leave you for xenos. Cause that shit is round ruining for some players.

[SagaSword]

I'm getting CoronelJones CMP flashbacks....;-;

[Torrentia]

They aren't supposed to be antagonists per se, but they sometimes seem like the anti-thesis to the "fun" aspect of the game due to some players who choose the role just to take other players out of the round for as long as possible for minor violations.

Though they have been getting better, albeit slightly. I've seen less "MP mains" during my playtime and more skilled roleplayers who've been trying out the role, meaning more diplomatic talks, NJPs, and warnings. This is a much better way to enforce marine law on the server and I hope to see less "shitcurity" now that MPs are facing consequences for their outrageous actions (flashing the front lines, etc.)

[LittleBlast]

Just saying :
don't break marine law, and MPs can't do shit against you.

It's simple as that.



The problem arises when they create bullshit charges just to arrest people. For example last game they nearly arrested the RO for coming up to CIC during a dry spell for orders for "Neglect of Duty". I as the XO got 25 minutes for telling marines to avoid the MPs.

[Casany]

Just saying :
don't break marine law, and MPs can't do shit against you.

It's simple as that.

I mean come on, I never play MP 'cause I don't give a shit and I don't want to babysit ungas. So many of you are looking for trouble and sniffing glue on purpose. Grow a pair and assume the consequences of what you did, like adults.

I went like less than 10 times to brig, and each fucking time I deserved it. Also gave me time to make some decent RP.

You're all grapes to me if you keep looking for shit and then complaining about getting flashed/tazed.

Again. Marine Law can be pretzeled to be able to arrest anyone for most anything. The only way to truly be safe is to not take a gun, not go planetside and just cryo.

I’ve already typed out a response on how marine law can be pretzeled above that I’m not gonna copy paste but just go ahead and read that. If an MP doesn’t like you they will find something to arrest you for as long as they are smart enough to pretzel the law.

[Gnorse]

How to have fun in CM 101 :
1- Ignore MPs. Don't acknowledge their existance.
2- Don't give them a reason to arrest you.
3- Remember that MPs and the CMP must preform any order that isn't related to marine law.
4- Officers outrank all MPs, including the CMP in all matters that are not marine law.
5- If an MP is on the front line actively harming marines, unload on the fucker and hide his body.
6- ???
7- Marine major victory.

[Davidchan]

1 - MPs give no fucks and will find a way to fuck you over if not needlessly tasing you without warning because MUH LAWs, regardless of whether you actually did the thing you're accused of and if it's even illegal.
2 - See reason 1. MPs will make up any excuse they can to impact a round. They also ignore their own violations (such as MPs going down to FOB and chasing xenos about.)
3 - "YOU order ME? MUH LAWS! INSUBORDINATION, CMP IS LCDR AND HE SAY YOU BAD!'
4 - "MUH LCDR STATUS!'
5 - BWOINK

[Symbiosis]

MPs and CMPs do NOT have to follow ANY ORDER you give them that isn’t SPECIFICALLY related to Marine Law. They can claim you’re interferring with their patrols or applications of Marine Law... or claim they’re investigating a crime. (Something as simple as who left a firearm unsecured in briefing)

It’s the pretzel again. They can view it as an NJP or charge YOU with neglect of duty and suddenly you’re being arrested as a Commander.

If you think I’m exaggerating in the slightest, look at my staff report on Cry/Blade. Marine Law was pretzeled because I argued with a CMP and eventually the Almayer had to deal with a Death Squad.

[Davidchan]

>MPs giving CO a NJP

Do you mother fuckers Article 15?

[KeyWii]

Evidently not.