No shotguns allowed

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

After reading up on the whole thing, I feel like this thing was a bad idea in the first place.

1. M37 is legit the only viable weapon right now. M41A feels like shit without AP, and even then AP is expensive as hell to maintain, when Buckshot+Slug is practically free.
2. Banning it, without even a single paper from HC, just makes players feel like you're fucking around their round and their chance of winning for the lulz. If even one other admin had been down and sent like an announcement as "We're doing an experiment, on how effective the M41A can be on its own, without the M37; to see if we should improve it or not" (just think up any bullshit reason really, you just need an HC announcement), then I feel like more people would've gone along with it, because at least maybe they'll think it as if the devs are trying to observe the game and will be making changes based on the results.
3. The CO and the MP crew "reputation", per say. Blade is a CMP main, Rex is a shitler in the eyes of a lot of players (I've never seen him yet, so I haven't really formed my own opinion of him), so I don't feel like players would really go along with the whole thing quietly in the first place.

But again, since I was not a part of this round, I may just be bullshitting here. Above points are just my opinions after reading on the round

[Arbs]

So you admitted that you confiscated it from a marine and then headed down to the planet?
There's little in Marine Law about the SOP for a MP coming across something that might be considered contraband but:

If illegal items are found, secure them until the search is complete. Should this be impossible, request that another MP assist you by taking the items to Evidence Storage.

and

Search the area for evidence and ensure all evidence is secured.
Restore the searched area to its previous state as closely as possible.
Reopen the area to normal traffic and take all evidence to the brig for processing.

as we can see from the search procedures, all evidence or illegal items should be taken to the evidence locker at the first opportunity. Nothing is said about a MP having the ability to hold on to either contraband or evidence indefinitely .
By failing to place the ID, which was evidence or contraband, in the evidence locker and instead heading down to the surface, you have committed the crime of Possession of Contraband yourself.
Heading down to the surface to fight xenos, considering the amount of unrest on the ship and the lack of a direct command to deploy from the aCO or WO, is a charge of Neglect of Duty. You also left out the part where you dressed up as a marine when you were on the ground, which can be construed as either Theft and Unauthorized Weapon, depending on the circumstances.
----End of IC Thought/Beginning of OC discussion---

There are instructions you have to follow as a MP, but it seem like you only follow them when it suits you. You were quite fine with arresting any and all marines involved with the mutiny, but when the WO gives amnesty to the mutineers you leave your post and go down to the planet to shoot xenos? You fuck off cause you can't baton anymore? Seems like standard shitcurity behavior to me. If you did not want to continue playing the round, there is always the choice of cryo. (a choice that the marines don't always have) If you dislike the WO's actions, take it up with High Command. You admit to breaking marine law and in the same post admonish others for breaking laws, as if you were above it all.

You seem to have forgotten the rule given to MPs, so I'll put it here to remind you:

15. Military Police - All Military Police jobs can never break Marine Law themselves, but they are not required to enforce Marine Law 100% of the time unless ordered by a superior.

I late joined after the mutiny, when things had stabilized to figure out the "amnesty" the WO had given which isn't even mentioned in Marine Law. So no need to jump on me for that bullshit. It's simply something that shouldn't be done as per marine law to justify it with "we'll handle it post-op".

It's not a shitcurity move at all. I threatened no one, followed orders, -punished no one-, -battoned no one- and simply did my job in simply confiscating the CO's ID from the CIC table. And it was not taken from a marine but simply sitting in the CIC table. I had problems with -no one-. As a matter of fact it was the XO and the SO complaining about an ID they shouldn't be having in the first place. If I wanted to baton and fuck around as an MP to be the shitcurity you say, I could pick on the tiniest of shit and applying max charges just to fuck with you. But obviously you don't see me doing it. So stick that shitcurity move up your ass.

Trust me when I tell you that I know full well the procedures to follow and that is precisely what I was going to do. Hell I don't even have to bust my ass explaining this to you. So thanks for the reminders but I don't need em for jackshit.

From the point of me taking the ID from the table until I headed out to terminate it in the briefing console (since the CO was dead and no one is meant to use an ID under his name any longer) I broke no laws. Then when trying to head back to put the ID in the locker, I were given no chance to even speak up let alone follow the procedure to the end due to the WO raising invalid charges on me before I could even bring the ID to the locker. Amidst an SO pulling a gun on me earlier for that ID.

So, due to the non-functioning structure in the MP team, being marked for arrest on invalid charges and the chaos that ensued following the mutiny, the best alternative was exactly that. To just head out, simple cause nothing was working anymore. From that point onwards it doesn't even matter.

[Alterist]

-snip-

You seem to have forgotten the rule given to MPs, so I'll put it here to remind you:

15. Military Police - All Military Police jobs can never break Marine Law themselves, but they are not required to enforce Marine Law 100% of the time unless ordered by a superior.

Well, it's the second part I want you to read this time, the CMP does not HAVE to arrest the mutineers. The amnesty is simply the way of saying that the CMP was willing to let the past events be forgotten in order to get the operation back on track.

I was mistaken and assumed the ID was taken from someone, my bad. But if it was sitting on the CIC table, then no one had it or was using it as you are trying to say. If so, there were no laws broken, and therefore, no reason for you to take it. At the most, you could ask the XO to decommission it, but from your post it seems like you took it without a word. During a round where the tension between MPs and the marines were high, it's only natural for the XO and SO to be wary of a MP wordlessly taking a full access ID. You did something very touchy instead of communicating with the XO, WO or SO and complain that you weren't given a chance to speak up after the fact? I'll just leave that question hanging there.

I would like to know what was the Charge that the WO had against you, considering your lack of willingness to reveal what it was, I fully bet that it was something that was justified IC.

So, due to the non-functioning structure in the MP team, being marked for arrest on invalid charges and the chaos that ensued following the mutiny, the best alternative was exactly that. To just head out, simple cause nothing was working anymore. From that point onwards it doesn't even matter.

So you admit to breaking Marine Law when it doesn't benefit you, even when you're a MP?

[Symbiosis]

Alterist - see the link attached. Text pertinent included.


Prisoners have the right to appeal their sentence to the Chief MP or acting CO. However, the Chief MP has final say on all appeals and may override the CO. During an appeal, the person conducting it is expected to review all evidence and testimonies of the suspect's crimes. Should they conclude the suspect is innocent, ONLY the time for the crimes they are innocent of is to be removed. Under no circumstances may anyone be given a pardon if there is evidence that shows a crime was committed.

https://cm-ss13.com/wiki/Marine_Law#Mut ... ng_Officer

[Nickvr628]

What so they were expected to arrest 50+ people? Because that was what was being ordered before the amnesty was announced. Also, doesn't the "but they are not required to enforce Marine Law 100% of the time unless ordered by a superior" clause allow for amnesties?

[Arbs]

The WO's charge was insubordination and theft that just got slammed like that as the WO was jumping the gun to the punishment. I committed none of those crimes, for one it was not theft since the ID was on the table and it did not belong to anyone other than the dead CO who obviously didn't have it with him in the morgue. Second, I did not commit insubordination as I am still trying to figure out the order I didn't follow or the person I insulted. It was just something the XO/So stuffed in there for the heck of it. WO gave no order to me on this situation and any order the XO or SO may have given regarding the ID is invalid as it is a law matter which I have to enforce and they have no say in.

As you know, false charges are a crime on it's own. The WO didn't even ask me for an explanation, simply placed a charge and an arrest order on me.

Off Topic

Prevarication To intentionally order the arrest of a marine who is then found to be innocent, or to apply an improper or abusive NJP.

The XO/SO whoever else has no need to be wary of MPs simply for the fact that as you've been pointing out- they're prevented from breaking marine law AND prevented from taking part in any mutiny whatsoever. I did try to communicate with the XO and SO but the only response I got was them "I can have it cause i'm aCO." and an SO pulling a gun on me because they "needed it". Shortly after that I'm followed to the brig where I believe they reported it to the WO who jumped gun with it as I was on my way to decommission the ID and the WO set the charges on me. How's that for me being shitcurity?

Seeing how the CMP had a horrible conduct and the ship Command being as autistic about it to pull a gun on me, I decided to indeed say fuck it, and leave post, since I was already marked for arrest wasn't I? Who knows maybe we could also sort that out too post-op like we were going to sort out the mutineers. Or was this instance more important than a mutiny, the death of the CO, death of two MPs and the abusive MPs marines had to deal with that round that went unpunished?

Also let me clarify this. I don't use the marine law to "benefit me" or something like you make it sound. I like following it with the neutrality it comes with. But when the law breaches come from all the way up (CMP, ship command) to defend something wrong, then there's no sense in it anymore. You might as well use the marine law books as toilet paper at that point.

These fuckers simply make a big deal of "shitcurity" about it because of the chaos and how wrong the conduct from the WO was. If it were a "normal" round with a CMP worth a shit, I'm sure it would've turned out much different.

As I said, whenever I deal with things as an MP I don't do it to fuck with you and get happy for "griefing" someone in a 2D space game. I am always sensible and fair about it. The dumb ones in this mess are the CMP and the people complaining about it who have complete disregard for anything written in the marine law.

[Alterist]

While there was a crime committed (mutiny in this case) the CMP had the choice (written out in the General Rules) not to pursue the ones responsible (which he took). Therefore it does not matter even if the CMP was unable to pardon prisoners that committed a crime, the mutineers were not prisoners, they were simply people who commited a crime that the CMP choose to overlook. Additionally, Mutiny laws only states that the MPs have to prevent the overthrow of staff (which they failed, sorta), not enforce the crime of sedition (which I believe is what is given to mutineers)

Just to be clear this is the definition of Pardon and Amnesty that I think fits CM the most:

Amnesty: "The act of a sovereign power officially forgiving certain classes of people who are subject to trial but have not yet been convicted"

Pardon: "A decision to allow a person to be absolved of guilt for an alleged crime or other legal offense, as if the act never occurred"

The keyword there is convicted, the mutineers were never convicted or charged with a crime, so there was no point for them to be absolved of anything

[Casany]

Arbs, I’m pretty sure you once attempted to arrest me and two other pajamarines literally right after we left cryo because I hit a window with a satchel.

Anyway...

For future reference, I’d a CO wants to have a test round if sort, they shouldn’t be punishing people who don’t do it but incentivizing people to do it. Give them a reason to want to use a pulse rifle. Infinite attachments, leader armor, anything really. Make it so the vets have a reason to switch to an underpowered weapon.

And as for the devs, please don’t nerf shotguns. You guys have a habit of instead of giving something equal power just nerfing it into the ground instead. I get it it may be too powerful but there’s no need to just destroy is as a viable weapon.

[Symbiosis]

snip

If the commander ordered them arrested which I’m sure he ordered Mutineers arrested/stopped, him providing an overall amnesty is NOT covered by Marine Law and he CANNOT choose to make things up on the spot. He can choose when to enforce Marine Law for small stuff - NOT ignore serious crimes.

You can choose to ignore minor crimes (which is covered in Marine Law) but to suggest that “not follow Marine Law 100%” gives the CMP the ability to provide shipwide amnesty is disingenuous.

It’s funny because Marine Law is written so ambiguously with multiple pretzels available that this is even a discussion.

[Archie700]

If the commander ordered them arrested which I’m sure he ordered Mutineers arrested/stopped, him providing an overall amnesty is NOT covered by Marine Law and he CANNOT choose to make things up on the spot. He can choose when to enforce Marine Law for small stuff - NOT ignore serious crimes.

You can choose to ignore minor crimes (which is covered in Marine Law) but to suggest that “not follow Marine Law 100%” gives the CMP the ability to provide shipwide amnesty is disingenuous.

It’s funny because Marine Law is written so ambiguously with multiple pretzels available that this is even a discussion.

I guess it's because the ORIGINAL order to confiscate and brig marines turned out to be invalid, since CO couldn't prove it was from HC and HC had to intervene and say they didn't give the order, which meant technically, the CO was the one going against HC by trying to confiscate allowed items.

Though the CMP is still at fault because he didn't ask HC whether they DID give the order in the first place.

[Heckenshutze]

> No Shotguns allowed
> Log out

[Lorem123]

Caleeb, there was straight-up mod abuse during this round. An admin even backed up the mods that were being abusive.

[Casany]

Caleeb, there was straight-up mod abuse during this round. An admin even backed up the mods that were being abusive.

And because of this your reports just gonna be closed with nothing done. Just preparing you for the inevitable

[Davidchan]

The report should have been filed against Blade, Lorem.

>No griefing - Griefing is the intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or to the server without any roleplay reason.

His stated intent for the shotgun ban, without Admin permission, was to cause annoyance among the general marine population.

Ok so, since I am one of the parties involved, I will give my perspective:

So, I joined the round with an idea of banning the shotguns for that one round. I expected marines to complain, obviously, but I wanted to just see how it could look like fighting with pulse rifles only. OOCly, I was interested in seeing how fighting Xenos with pulse rifles only could look like. IC, I made a little backstory as to justify the banning, since I won't just go in and ban shotguns for 0 reasons, and built that backstory which involved Delta and warcrimes in a previous mission before the one that was Big Red.

Disclaimer: I DIDN'T used the round before this one as a reason to ban the shotguns. The previous OP was a made-up OP that would serve as backstory for it, involving Delta doing war crimes with shotguns and HC approaching me about this situation. If you want the full lore, you can ask me in PMs so I can explain in detail, like a story.

He didn't give any reason aside from 'HC said don't use shotguns because a previous OP went bad because of them' and then never gives the marines any other reason for it. Never contacts the other admins before hand with his intent (which, as a Moderator he should have easily been able to talk to other staff and run the round as an event) nor makes any attempt in round to get HC to back him despite already claiming HC said no shotguns. Coming up with a bad excuse to take away weapons from players and then lying and saying it's come down from High Command aka the admins. How any of this is acceptable staff behavior is beyond me. Blade should full well know the rules of the server and MP law, yet goes about breaking in ways that have gotten people banned from the server for.

[Symbiosis]

Simply put, he’s a Mod. He has broken server rules and Marine Law the round he sent in the Provost Arrest order/Staff Report I posted earlier.

He then does this less than a month later.

They removed a Mentor for shitposting today but a Mod abusing his powers IC and OOC doesn’t seem to be addressed. It’s all about who you are unfortunately. If you’re in with the right people - you can get away with a helluva lot more than anyone else.

[Frans_Feiffer]

I was the XO that round, and I can say it was fun in the beginning, but it quickly grew into a mess thereafter. I didn’t think much of it, at first, in fact I was laughing my ass of cause the CO asked me to make the game plan, while he did his stuff, and over common I see Heinz screaming “keep pumping!” I stay in the CIC and everything is normal, until the CO tells me to handle briefing. I think by far the greatest moment of my life was going down to briefing, only to find everyone pumping shotguns while screaming about their second amendments. I dubbed it the pumpening, and tried to do my best to settle things (I ordered that the ban was over,
Hoping that would calm everyone down, and the CO was there to hear it, never told me otherwise.) and then I proceeded with objectives. I made them earlier, so it was quick and painless. I don’t want to really talk about the mutiny and everyrhing thereafter, for I was in the CIC trying to coordinate groundside, leaving that to the CO, so I really don’t know everything that happened. I just know it became a nightmare, and Coordinating, much less actually doing my job as XO was neigh impossible until after the CO was decapped and things has calmed down just a tiny bit. But despite everything, we were able to nearly turn the fight around im our favor, only before dropping the ball and falling to the benos. The fact that we even lasted that long though, and were able to see victory in sight for even just a second though made me proud of my crayon eating ungas.
Oh, amd not to mention that my ID wasn’t stolen once, but TWICE. During briefing it got taken, and I was more impressed that someone managed to get it while I was typing. So after briefing before the mutimy happened, I asked the CO to make me a replacement ID. I had asked before for the guy who took my ID to step up but that led me knowwhere. So he makes me the ID, and this doctor who was up there for no reason whatsoever grabs my ID off the floor and throws his down. It was at that point I got annoyed with the round, tried chasing him down, and after a bit got him and my replacement ID back. I still hadn’t gotten my old one back though, so once things settled I ahelped,
And thanks to a helpful dude mcgee, I got my original back. Apologies for my rambling, but that’s my side to an extent. There were fun times, and a lot of not so fun times but all in all we pulled through and somehow nearly one, despite the first hour being infighting. Now I only wonder what Benos were thinking

[CSolaris]

Simply put, he’s a Mod. He has broken server rules and Marine Law the round he sent in the Provost Arrest order/Staff Report I posted earlier.

He then does this less than a month later.

They removed a Mentor for shitposting today but a Mod abusing his powers IC and OOC doesn’t seem to be addressed. It’s all about who you are unfortunately. If you’re in with the right people - you can get away with a helluva lot more than anyone else.

Who was that mentor, if you don't mind me asking?

Also yes. In the few months I've been in this "community", I've felt that there was an "in crowd" to this game - not just the "us vs. them" feeling either. Not going to name names, but it seems that some people are given a rule set in the form of a rubber band while others are given a rule set in the form of a brittle stick. Those with the rubber band are seemingly allowed to bend rules in their favor, almost sometimes to the extreme, with minimal (if any) repercussions from the staff. Then there are those who are given the brittle stick, and if they so much as look at staff / x - player funny, they're given just enough punishment so that it doesn't seem like an abuse of power.

It's pretty saddening, really. I enjoyed CM, but recently with the general shitlery and more than I would like cases of mod abuse that ends up without any sort of follow through, CM has become mundane and generally not worth the few hours a night that it used to be.

[Symbiosis]

Who was that mentor, if you don't mind me asking?

Also yes. In the few months I've been in this "community", I've felt that there was an "in crowd" to this game - not just the "us vs. them" feeling either. Not going to name names, but it seems that some people are given a rule set in the form of a rubber band while others are given a rule set in the form of a brittle stick. Those with the rubber band are seemingly allowed to bend rules in their favor, almost sometimes to the extreme, with minimal (if any) repercussions from the staff. Then there are those who are given the brittle stick, and if they so much as look at staff / x - player funny, they're given just enough punishment so that it doesn't seem like an abuse of power.

It's pretty saddening, really. I enjoyed CM, but recently with the general shitlery and more than I would like cases of mod abuse that ends up without any sort of follow through, CM has become mundane and generally not worth the few hours a night that it used to be.

It was James II.

You’re seeing what a lot of the community - and other staff for that matter - are seeing. There’s a smidgen of hope that Rahl eventually cleans house, that he’s merely watching and keeping an eye out for people that have no business in positions of power... but, we’ll have to wait and see.

[CSolaris]

It was James II.

You’re seeing what a lot of the community - and other staff for that matter - are seeing. There’s a smidgen of hope that Rahl eventually cleans house, that he’s merely watching and keeping an eye out for people that have no business in positions of power... but, we’ll have to wait and see.

Maybe. It would be great to be able to have fun in this game again. Until then though, I've resigned myself from playing for an indefinite amount of time.

[Nickvr628]

Maybe. It would be great to be able to have fun in this game again. Until then though, I've resigned myself from playing for an indefinite amount of time.

At risk of advertising, Corporate Mercenaries is a ton of fun, and (while very low RP) has a lot of really cool features that CM has been missing for a long time. Things like aim-able drop pods, shuttles that actually fly around the map and can land anywhere and do proper CAS, customizable xenos, heck even a post-round AAR where player submitted "news stories" about the round are played. Also Corporate Mercenary has the crew do an actual mission with objectives, not just "try to kill the xenos".

Not to mention the fact that the rounds are fast paced, there is no FF, and the focus is on mercs killing huge numbers of xenos instead on xenos being unstoppable tanks. A round a few days ago pitched the marines against over 270 xenos (because the xenos have free respawns and have mindless mob xenos to bolster their ranks) and it is a ton of fun because you can cut them down quickly and get a lot of kills.

Colonial Marines really needs to take some cues from Corporate Mercs on how to have a fun game that is also salt free. The fact that a noRP meme server is beating CM at their own niche, both code and gameplay wise, shows that changes need to be made. Things like making the rounds faster (instead of 5 benos delaying a round for 90 minutes like tends to happen), neutering MP shitlery, and changing the way xenos are balanced would go a LONG way into making CM a more enjoyable experience.

[Casany]

Who was that mentor, if you don't mind me asking?

Also yes. In the few months I've been in this "community", I've felt that there was an "in crowd" to this game - not just the "us vs. them" feeling either. Not going to name names, but it seems that some people are given a rule set in the form of a rubber band while others are given a rule set in the form of a brittle stick. Those with the rubber band are seemingly allowed to bend rules in their favor, almost sometimes to the extreme, with minimal (if any) repercussions from the staff. Then there are those who are given the brittle stick, and if they so much as look at staff / x - player funny, they're given just enough punishment so that it doesn't seem like an abuse of power.

It's pretty saddening, really. I enjoyed CM, but recently with the general shitlery and more than I would like cases of mod abuse that ends up without any sort of follow through, CM has become mundane and generally not worth the few hours a night that it used to be.

Exactly this, sadly.

There was a time on CM where the staff actually could be trusted and liked. This was late 2016-the summer of 2017. Now it’s back like the staff was 2014-early 2016, abusive and untrustworthy, and most of all elitist.

From the majority of the staff members save like 6 I get an elitist vibe of “I got moderator and you don’t have it therefor I am worth more and what I say means more”. And no longer are players opinions taken in, though I’d like to say they never were but there was a time when they were.

It’s a cycle. This entire years gonna be bad just like 2015, and half way through 2019 we may see change.

I think what the staff fail to see is that us players want the best for the game. We aren’t out to destroy it or sabotage it like some would think. The majority of the people here who are active on the forums want this game to be the best it can, but instead staff come along and say that our opinions don’t matter because we didn’t get an orange tag or a yellow tag. It’s stupid, elitist, and toxic.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Well i figured out who stole the XO's ID from this security camera footage, time stamp 28:45 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vmTkJSEEVg

Corporate Mercenaries is a ton of fun, and (while very low RP) has a lot of really cool features that CM has been missing for a long time.

the rounds are fast paced, there is no FF, and the focus is on mercs killing huge numbers of xenos instead on xenos being unstoppable tanks.

Ive heard of this server for a while now and have wanted to try it out, but ive never seen it on the hub, otherwise i probably would have been playing there over here for sometime by now.Where can i find this server?

[Lorem123]

Well i figured out who stole the XO's ID from this security camera footage, time stamp 28:45 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vmTkJSEEVg



Ive heard of this server for a while now and have wanted to try it out, but ive never seen it on the hub, otherwise i probably would have been playing there over here for sometime by now.Where can i find this server?

Are you on discord? I can send you a link to their discord. They only post the server link there when they are doing a test run. The full server is not up yet.

[Archie700]

I guess it's because the ORIGINAL order to confiscate and brig marines turned out to be invalid, since CO couldn't prove it was from HC and HC had to intervene and say they didn't give the order, which meant technically, the CO was the one going against HC by trying to confiscate allowed items.

Though the CMP is still at fault because he didn't ask HC whether they DID give the order in the first place.

Actually, on second thought, that's even worse.

In real life, COs can't deny standard issue weapons just because they were used in a warcrime unless special approval is given. That sort of behavior is the sort that results in a court-martial of the CO, which is already bad enough.

But the CO said it was on orders of HC, but had not even given proof. Why didn't the CMP, the one who explicitly follows Marine Law, ask for proof from High Command that there is a ban on standard-issue shotguns. Why did he instead choose to blindly follow CO's orders instead of checking with High Command? What the CO did was outright sedition by faking orders from High Command, so the order itself was ILLEGAL to begin with and should have resulted in prompt removal of the CO after confirmation.

This is even worse given that CMP was a MOD and thus should know both Marine Law and the Rules more than anyone.

[Casany]

But the CO said it was on orders of HC, but had not even given proof. Why didn't the CMP, the one who explicitly follows Marine Law, ask for proof from High Command that there is a ban on standard-issue shotguns. Why did he instead choose to blindly follow CO's orders instead of checking with High Command? What the CO did was outright sedition by faking orders from High Command, so the order itself was ILLEGAL to begin with and should have resulted in prompt removal of the CO after confirmation.

This is even worse given that CMP was a MOD and thus should know both Marine Law and the Rules more than anyone.

That's funny. When MPs and CMPs don't like the orders COs give them they arrest the CO or ignore the orders, but if the orders given allow them to arrest even more people they don't bat an eye and follow blindly.