Unauthorized Executions

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Some players, for some reason, even as a non-commander role, think its alright that they permanently remove a player from a round as if they were a commander, why is this?

This most recent example i witnessed wasnt directed at me, but i was a few tiles away from it and it was very comparable to a scenario i had reported recently :

https://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=17835

Some alpha player called Burt or Bert came down on the alamo during that radiation event round we just had, something happened between him and kesserline, to which kesserline just pumps around seven tactical shotgun rounds pointblank into him, what the fuck? The only replies to questions as to why he even did this was along the lines of "he shot me first" and "he was hostile".

I highly doubt that this player Burt intentionally, or by accident pumped nearly 10 rounds into this kesserline player, so why did he think it was alright to do it to Burt? Regardless of what Burt did, kesserline wanted to murder him, and did.Kesserline was the real hostile.

Ontop of that, straight after this arsewipe just murdered this marine, he demands/asks/suggests that the medics around dont revive him, to which some of them actually fucking listened, probably simply because the name of the player, which is complete bullshit.Blatant elitism from what i could see, the medics were regular named players too.

Burt is laying dead, unrevived, riddled like robocop, whilst kesserline is still running around playing the round, exactly what happened with me and Phil Larson.I watched kesserline get killed by xenoes, so admins didnt remove him and im assuming didnt have much of a issue with the execution he just did.

Can anyone explain to me why they think its acceptable that you take scenario's like this into your own hands and totally remove players from the round? Why arent you a-helping? Ive wanted to outright murder players for whatever reasonings a few times, but ive never actually done it(not counting when i first joined).Yet theres several players that dont seem to have that restriction of "dont murder other friendly players" in mind like most players do, and even with admins being notified, are getting away with it.
I wanted to even actually just shoot the shit out of kesserline as soon as he murdered burt, but i didnt, because i have that restriction of not murdering and removing players in mind, why the fuck doesnt a regular player like kesserline abide by that? Its not only a kind of unofficial IC etiquette that you dont intentionally remove your allies/players from the round, its against the bloody rules :


"Don’t be a dick - Harassment, racism, bigotry, homophobia, exploiting bugs, cheating, hacking, and just plain being an asshole. Giving out plot spoilers to any media with malicious intent is not allowed, but general discussion of plot that contains spoilers about media released 1 year ago or longer is fine."

This player was a dick and a asshole at the same time and harassed this player in the form of murdering and removing them from the round outright.

"No griefing - Griefing is the intent of one player wanting to cause grief or annoyance to other players or to the server without any roleplay reason. If Staff believes that the player’s intent is to grief then action will be taken whether or not it actually was the player’s intent. Any damage to the station or players caused by griefing can be repaired at an Admin's discretion. If you are being griefed, don’t retaliate - Adminhelp it. You’ll get healed. Griefing a griefer is still griefing, and the combat logs you’re generating make it harder for Staff to prove who the real griefer is."

This player griefed this other player by removing them from the round intentionally and even tried to and successfully did get other players onboard with his decisions to seal the fate of Burt by not reviving him, ultimately.

"Battlefield Execution - Whitelisted Commanders are allowed to instantly kill any non-Military Police player at any time if they feel they are a threat to the mission. A command announcement of the situation and reason must then be made. Excessive or poorly-reasoned battlefield executions may end with the Commander being removed from the whitelist. All Military Police jobs can not be battlefield executed."

He was a engineer, not a commander, no BE powers.Phil Larson was a MEDIC of all things, has no BE powers either.

"Lethal Force - Do not attack another player without a legitimate, explainable roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario. A fist fight does not suddenly escalate into a gun fight. Even if you are justified, you are still susceptible to Marine Law. "

This player grossly escalated and lethally executed another player for whatever previous reasons that led up to with, were no where near to being close to the proportion of putting 7 slug rounds point blank into another player the way kesserline did, he literally executed him outright exactly how you would see a commander do it with a mateba, exactly the same.I also know that whatever happened between kesserline and Burt happened during the trip down or not long after he got to the LZ/FOB, because i was talking to Burt over comms before and whilst he was coming down, i was expecting him and the bag of flares he was bringing.Not leaving much time for Burt to really achieve much to any major degree and warrant him being murdered, you would of thought.

"Marines are not mentally unstable. They are of sound mind and body, trained for war. They would not want to self-harm. At least not until they are trapped and infected after seeing a fanged creature burst from a comrade’s chest."

This player was not acting like a sound of mind marine by any mile, by how he reacted to this scenario in almost every way, the replies he gave explaining his actions, etc.I cant picture anything that Burt could of done to warrant a reaction like this from kesserline unless burt was full on opening fire upon him, which im almost certain did not happen at all.


Again, comparable to my scenario that was similar to this in a few ways, i a-helped and ended getting myself noted for self defense, would Burt have got the same treatment if he had a-helped? Quite possibly, because thats exactly what happened to me.In both scenario's we didnt get a-healed because its almost classed as both, and neither a IC/OCC issue, the IC side is classed as "FF, battlefield, ohh well", and the OOC side is treated as "your noted for defending yourself".In both scenarios, the execution by the other player was so quick, because the player thats escalating it, has escalated it so fast to the point of murder that the MP's dont even get a chance to investigate, or even get notified about it, even if theres marines all around when it happens.Phil Larson never got arrested or investigated by MP's in my scenario, and neither did kesserline for this example.Even if he didnt get killed by xenoes, the MP's didnt even know Burt was dead or that kessline killed him for the most part.
There was marines all around Burt when he got killed, no one did shit almost aside from a few.There was marines all around when Larson executed me.


As far as i understand, but correct me if im wrong.Intentionally removing someone from the round is a form of griefing isnt it?

Performing a battle execution as a non-commander is not allowed, right? These are two major server rule breaks.

So also, why arent admins treating these "intentional removal of player" scenarios more seriously? Instead allowing the player thats committed it to run around and continue playing like they havnt just broke the rules? Its almost seems like because theres practically no FF rules, that even BE's performed by regular roles are softly treated by admins, or atleast for certain people.

IF the player Burt happens to be on the forums, come post a comment and explain what exactly you did to get you executed by a non-commander role player.

IF kesserline wants to come post his reasoning for this, your welcome to and id like to hear it as from what i witnessed, you grossly and intentionally went against the rules, probably assuming and expecting you would get away with it because of your name, come prove me wrong.

Had you done this to me and not burt, this would be a player report right now as i think what you did deserves one ten fold.

I A-helped this myself live in the round, as i wasnt sure if burt did or was going to.I got the auto-response of "Thanks!, Have a CM day!" or something or other...

If anyone has a example of their own, id like to hear about it, post at will.

[DriedMilk]

uuuuuuuh

player report it duh

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

uuuuuuuh

player report it duh

No, ive tried the player report route already thanks.It doesnt matter if the report is in that section of the forum or here, its pointing out the same thing as far as im concerned, and atleast here people can more freely talk about what they think and not sugarcoat shit.

Also, even though im using a few specific examples here, the observations and questions are in a general sense.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

If it doesn't get ahelped or reported, how can you expect anything to happen.
People get mad and go overboard and kill each other over FF many times, instead of just ahelping.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

If it doesn't get ahelped or reported, how can you expect anything to happen.
People get mad and go overboard and kill each other over FF many times, instead of just ahelping.

Even when you do a-help, as im pointing out, the clear escalator/suspect thats broken the rules doesnt even really get punished IC or OOC.Lets say the admin that dealt with that Burt example, ended up noting kesserline for it, he just removed a player and hes just simply getting a note? Hardly seems proportionate, like the murder in the first place.In my example i know that Phil just got noted, again for outright removing a player, even whilst being the main instigator.

Im trying to get a understanding of why players are going about things this way regarding BE'ing other players.Is this a character ego jerk off thing? Still power tripping from the round as commander a few rounds ago? They know the admins cant and wont do shit about? What is it?

I mean, what kind of special fucking prick, not only takes the role of executor whenever he pleases as a player, but thinks hes god too and has the final say on whether a marine should be revived or not, ive never seen such a douchebag moment playing this server, especially from someone like kesserline thats meant to be a "good" player in the eyes of others.Well i think your a dickhead in this instance, i will mention though on other matters ive agreed with your comments, but i dont agree with what you did here.

[Casany]

Most known players think because they’re popular they can get away with anything (Example - Skycave).

It’s a mentality installed by the toxic elitist community this game fosters. It’s in every facet, the staff team and the playerbase. It’s my personal hope that people learn that popularity doesn’t mean amnesty.

Some people are way worse than others. Personally I love people like Kennel and my Nibbla Bancrose, but we all could learn from this and stop being so unaccepting of new players.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

No, ive tried the player report route already thanks.

Honestly from what you describe you should probably report this if it wasn't ahelped I'm assuming. Did you or "Bert" do an ahelp, because you say this other player wasn't taken out of action by admins.
From what I gather you're basically telling people not to be dicks, but not to ahelp or do reports because you had a similar situation where a moderator did a judgement call and warned both of you.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Most known players think because they’re popular they can get away with anything (Example - Skycave).

It’s a mentality installed by the toxic elitist community this game fosters. It’s in every facet, the staff team and the playerbase. It’s my personal hope that people learn that popularity doesn’t mean amnesty.

Some people are way worse than others. Personally I love people like Kennel and my Nibbla Bancrose, but we all could learn from this and stop being so unaccepting of new players.

Yeah i really am starting to think that is the sole reason myself actually, because examples like this show it quite blatantly.

Its not just unaccepting, its completely against the servers rules and really should of been less of a issue with the BE laws update, instead it still exists and the ones that are continuing it are the very players some of you people think are good role model players for others, like fuck they are.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Honestly from what you describe you should probably report this if it wasn't ahelped I'm assuming. Did you or "Bert" do an ahelp, because you say this other player wasn't taken out of action by admins.
From what I gather you're basically telling people not to be dicks, but not to ahelp or do reports because you had a similar situation where a moderator did a judgement call and warned both of you.

Yeah, so i did ahelp it, first was a auto response as i mentioned, along the lines of "Thanks! Have a good CM day!" etc.

Then after waiting abit, because i was still a live player in the round, not long after i saw kesserline get dragged into tcomms by a warrior and killed im almost certain, which means admins didnt take him out of the round, no.I made another ahelp making sure they knew about it.

I then got a proper response from a admin, a senior admin saying that there were lots of issues that round and wasnt sure which one i was referring to.I then mentioned it was regarding a delta engineer executing a alpha marine and the admin then informed me that a mod had infact been on that issue and was still resolving it.The last message i sent was me telling that senior admin that if they wanted any further info, to message me.

Im not telling anyone to be anything, im pointing out that regular players that are not empowered with the rights of battlefield execution as we all know, are being performed by regular roled players anyhow and that admins arent really addressing these murders proportionate to who was actually the main instigator and who was the victim, not this blanket "both of you are getting noted/banned, solved" bullshit or simply just allowing them to get away with it.

Im also not suggesting not to make ahelps when you think you should, im pointing out that even if you do, it most likely wont be addressed properly.Just look at the pattern im following myself, ive now got two reported instances of this kind of scenario, where someone has BE'd someone else out of the round, and the other player basically gets away with it, even when ahelp, and even when reported on the forums.

Keep in mind, these are just two examples that ive reported, this has happened more times in the past that i havnt reported.Im not the only one this happens to either, or will happen to in the future.Im making sure its known that its happening right now by reporting it though, and whos doing it.

[Renomaki]

It’s a mentality installed by the toxic elitist community this game fosters. It’s in every facet, the staff team and the playerbase. It’s my personal hope that people learn that popularity doesn’t mean amnesty.

The sad part is that some players tend to have a great deal of staff favor. Carson, for instance, was the staff pet for the longest time, able to get away with pretty much anything and is spoiled rotten with little events and attention that most others rarely get.

And in some cases, a player could be propelled into staff petdome, such as Hienz, who used to be a nobody until Feweh grew to like his nazi-persona, him feeding it and spoiling him and turning Hienz into the next Bill Carson.

When high ranking staff spoil and bring a great deal of attention to certain players, of course they grow to be quite egotistical.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

The sad part is that some players tend to have a great deal of staff favor. Carson, for instance, was the staff pet for the longest time, able to get away with pretty much anything and is spoiled rotten with little events and attention that most others rarely get.

And in some cases, a player could be propelled into staff petdome, such as Hienz, who used to be a nobody until Feweh grew to like his nazi-persona, him feeding it and spoiling him and turning Hienz into the next Bill Carson.

When high ranking staff spoil and bring a great deal of attention to certain players, of course they grow to be quite egotistical.

Thats exactly right, and the part that pisses me off about it is, that when these players do start to get held accountable for their actions from other players, which in turn gets the admins attention.The admins will address it like they didnt create the fucking problem in the first place, or at the very least allowed it happen.

A very simple example of that is one i noticed in OOC one day when a admin said something like "Stop spamming gay" or "stop using the word gay", even though thats the every second word you see some admins and players using when they type..

In essence, what we have here is regular roled players being allowed to utilize and perform, not just any, but one of the highest whitelisted command abilities available.Theres no other way of describing what happened to me, burt or anyone else thats been removed from a round like this other than, unauthorized battlefield execution.

[Omicega]

...

I A-helped this myself live in the round, as i wasnt sure if burt did or was going to.I got the auto-response of "Thanks!, Have a CM day!" or something or other...

...

I didn't handle the ahelp in question, but I did see being dealt with by the moderator who did. You'll have to take my word for it since I'm pretty certain I'm not allowed to show behind-the-scenes staff stuff on my own initiative.

A lot of moderators use an autoresponse after marking just as a way of acknowledging that they've taken it on board and are beginning to look at it. I personally try to send a message since that allows the reporter to PM me back and give me more info, but it's not uncommon for ahelps regarding grief to be marked and then autoresponded to. If it gets marked, that means it's being dealt with.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

I didn't handle the ahelp in question, but I did see being dealt with by the moderator who did. You'll have to take my word for it since I'm pretty certain I'm not allowed to show behind-the-scenes staff stuff on my own initiative.

A lot of moderators use an autoresponse after marking just as a way of acknowledging that they've taken it on board and are beginning to look at it. I personally try to send a message since that allows the reporter to PM me back and give me more info, but it's not uncommon for ahelps regarding grief to be marked and then autoresponded to. If it gets marked, that means it's being dealt with.

Yeah roger that, thats why i waited some time before ahelping again to make sure it got through, but i did take that auto-response as a kind of marking by the admins, regardless of what it says.

If you are allowed to inform me after the matter has been dealt with and what the outcome was, that would be great.As im quite interested in knowing the answer.

[Feweh]

The sad part is that some players tend to have a great deal of staff favor. Carson, for instance, was the staff pet for the longest time, able to get away with pretty much anything and is spoiled rotten with little events and attention that most others rarely get.

And in some cases, a player could be propelled into staff petdome, such as Hienz, who used to be a nobody until Feweh grew to like his nazi-persona, him feeding it and spoiling him and turning Hienz into the next Bill Carson.

When high ranking staff spoil and bring a great deal of attention to certain players, of course they grow to be quite egotistical.

Narrow sighted comment.

You are a prime example of someone who fit this criteria.

Not because you were spoiled or paraded around, but because you were a good community member who could roleplay. Countless times I used you in special events, situations and gave you special predator gear, simply because you were a good active player. Point being, you aren't really one to speak when it come to special attention.. especially from me as I gave you many advantages.

You may disagree but Heinz also fit this criteria which is why he stood out to staff.

[Renomaki]

Narrow sighted comment.

You are a prime example of someone who fit this criteria.

Not because you were spoiled or paraded around, but because you were a good community member who could roleplay. Countless times I used you in special events, situations and gave you special predator gear, simply because you were a good active player. Point being, you aren't really one to speak when it come to special attention.. especially from me as I gave you many advantages.

You may disagree but Heinz also fit this criteria which is why he stood out to staff.

Huh, surprising to see you here, I figured you moved on elsewhere.

The thing is, however, Heinz might be a good RPer, but he also started out as a big memer. Remember the black ghetto commander who gave someone a medal for providing him grape drink? And of course his early version of Heinz was a German commander who was stuck in the 1940s, transforming the marines into some Wehrmacht or whatever you call it until staff told him to tone it down. He got a lot better now and is much less memey (or at least he is most of of the time, barring a few recent events).

And Carson? Hell, I remember once pre-medal system that he got a medal for simply being Carson. Doesn't help that due to all the promotion of his persona that he has a personality cult that worships the very ground he stands on. Even to this day, I can't help but feel a certain aura of smugness from his person, knowing he his one of the staff's special ones.

Now, I'm not saying I don't acknowledge the things you did for me, sure. But I would be lying if I didn't say that I was a bit envious at the fame and popularity of the others I mentioned. Even now, I'm technically still a small fry in this community. I didn't become famous over the span of a few days to the point that everyone wants to be my friend. I can't get away with fucking around and doing really dumb things because I know I'd get in trouble with it... Hell, I never even had staff decide to just randomly send an admiral to award me a medal for just being me, or heaping me with praise.

Am I am egotist? Yes, I certainly am, it is hard to hide it in such a post as this. But still... The fact that I dedicated so much time to become as beloved as some of the big names here, only to still remain in second place because I'm not robust or cool or a meme... It frustrates me.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Am I am egotist? Yes, I certainly am, it is hard to hide it in such a post as this. But still... The fact that I dedicated so much time to become as beloved as some of the big names here, only to still remain in second place because I'm not robust or cool or a meme... It frustrates me.

Well, lets be real about something here, almost everything in life can be looked at as a competition, whether we like it or not, so dont feel bad for being that way because as you can see, your not the only one competing for this popularity spotlight, many people are.

The problem is, now we are full circle, because its this exact mentality and behavior thats creating these unauthorized executions by regular players, totally destroying other players rounds and currently getting away with it.

So while your popularity problems might not exactly register with me the same way being taken out of a round like this does, i understand both are frustrating.Ones abit more of a issue than the other though, wouldnt you agree?

[Renomaki]

So while your popularity problems might not exactly register with me the same way being taken out of a round like this does, i understand both are frustrating.Ones abit more of a issue than the other though, wouldnt you agree?

Oh indeed, it is very worrying on a number of levels how some people tend to poorly handle certain situations in positions of power.

Call me Canadian (because I am), but I normally am very resistant to using BEs as a form of punishment. You could even say I am soft as a commander, a pushover, but that is because I know marine physiology somewhat decently. Hell, I have a fair bit of experience from many a past event, such as the time I tried to conduct an experiment with mass deployment of SMGs by claiming the Pulse rifles were broken... Ended up with rioting marines and my eventual execution by High Command themselves. Its funny how history kinda repeats itself, isn't it?

Even the recent MP problem is a result of the above, where people are too quick to beat down on people instead of trying to be more diplomatic. Hell, I went as an MP once and dealt with a marine who apparently had a disrespect charge on him. Rather than simply order him on the ground and arrest him without so much as a word, I instigated conversation and tried to figure out what happened. You know... TALKED to him, gathered information. In the end, he left with a warning and left knowing that I made one marine slightly less afraid of MPs for a few moments.

Of course, the whole BE thing is just one thing that bothers me about commanders. There are a few other things that I really think need to be taken care of, but that is for another topic altogether.

[Dolth]

I highly doubt that this player Burt intentionally, or by accident pumped nearly 10 rounds into this kesserline player, so why did he think it was alright to do it to Burt? Regardless of what Burt did, kesserline wanted to murder him, and did.Kesserline was the real hostile.

Yeah I witnessed the whole thing AND talked with Burt in Dchat.

It was on purposes, Burt answered three punches with a shotgun shot, this is not proper escalation and should be punished. Burt shot first Mark which gave him legit reasons to defend himself with legitimate defense, just like IRL.

He did not "Think" it was alright, he KNEW as a matter of FACT that it IS PROPER ESCALATION to shoot back a marine that SHOOTS YOU ON PURPOSES. Which WAS the case as burt said in dchat he shot because Mark was beating him to death, (which is garbage, he punched him 3 time, punching to death is probably 50ish times, not even pointing he had armor on).

To sum it up. Read the rules and you might understand how the broken rule involving proper escalatin works. The only thing Mark did wrong was killing beyond defib.

[slc97]

This is just getting salty at this point instead of providing actual discussions on something someone wants changed, so I'm gonna go ahead and lock this up.