Update Discussion Thread (August 2018)

[Nickvr628]

Maybe xenos should get a pounce and spit delay mechanic so they get a taste of what it is like to play marine...

[Herac]

Maybe xenos should get a pounce and spit delay mechanic so they get a taste of what it is like to play marine...

I mean pounce and spit both have cooldowns and plasma cost...

[Dauntasa]

I mean pounce and spit both have cooldowns and plasma cost...

Yes, and guns have ammunition and time between shots. What pounce and spit don't have are windups where you can't use them. If you haven't used it and have the plasma, you can use pounce instantly. Guns already had a windup which was determined by player skill. You had to pull the gun off your belt, wield it, and then aim and fire. This already took much longer than just running up and middle clicking a guy. There didn't need to be an additional, even longer arbitrary windup with no means of mitigation.

[WinterClould]

I want to blow up and point out every problem I have with every bad update like the wield delay one, but God.. I've done that so many times, pointed out so many flaws and so many times I've watched as everything stayed till it became the accepted shitty normal that no one likes but puts up with. This'll be the same I bet, but God does it disappoint me.

So all I'll say is this.
I agree with most of what others said and I don't understand the logic of these updates. It pains my heart and soul. Literally fuck my shit up fam.

[Simo94]

I want to blow up and point out every problem I have with every bad update like the wield delay one, but God.. I've done that so many times, pointed out so many flaws and so many times I've watched as everything stayed till it became the accepted shitty normal that no one likes but puts up with. This'll be the same I bet, but God does it disappoint me.

So all I'll say is this.
I agree with most of what others said and I don't understand the logic of these updates. It pains my heart and soul. Literally fuck my shit up fam.

This man became one with the pain, ever since they removed Bedhead 3.

[Dauntasa]

observing the last round and watching people try to deal with the wield delay is physically hurting me

the smartgun delay is EIGHT SECONDS

why would you do this

[Davidchan]

observing the last round and watching people try to deal with the wield delay is physically hurting me

the smartgun delay is EIGHT SECONDS

why would you do this

Because fuck marines.
-Devs, probably.

[Chaznoodles]

Devs have zero care for gameplay, and when confronted with criticism, call "muh salt" and don't do anything to change it. Just because you made something, doesn't make it good.

[Nickvr628]

>pushes a few updates with the goal of making marines more aggressive by nerfing them.
>pushes another update a week later that nerfs marines again to make them less agressive.

We just got hit with a double nerf that canceled out the original purpose of the first nerf, do the devs have any idea what direction they are going?

[Casany]

I want to blow up and point out every problem I have with every bad update like the wield delay one, but God.. I've done that so many times, pointed out so many flaws and so many times I've watched as everything stayed till it became the accepted shitty normal that no one likes but puts up with. This'll be the same I bet, but God does it disappoint me.

So all I'll say is this.
I agree with most of what others said and I don't understand the logic of these updates. It pains my heart and soul. Literally fuck my shit up fam.

This. The reason nothing gets done is when people stop complaining about it devs just assume the meta changed and that players are fine with it. They aren’t though. The meta changes always but people don’t like every meta change.

This whole thread is pointless because the devs just don’t fucking care and think we’re salty. I haven’t played CM in about a week because I’m just so tired of it. I’ll try one round with this update but at this point I don’t see a point in spending 30 minutes gearing up just to die in 10 seconds. Even if I get captured and nested I’m still fucked. Might as well Force a marine to ghost when they’re nested

[Steelpoint]

Question.

These recent changes, wield delay and the ammo rework. Were they envisioned under the assumption that any other changes, known (Xeno rework, cargo rework, etc) or unknown to the player base, would also be in the game at some point to compliment them?

Wield delay and, to a lesser extend, the ammo change, in my opinion, seems like negative changes in a vacuum. But they 'might' make sense or even be fine if coupled with other in work changes.

[Herac]

Yes, and guns have ammunition and time between shots. What pounce and spit don't have are windups where you can't use them. If you haven't used it and have the plasma, you can use pounce instantly. Guns already had a windup which was determined by player skill. You had to pull the gun off your belt, wield it, and then aim and fire. This already took much longer than just running up and middle clicking a guy. There didn't need to be an additional, even longer arbitrary windup with no means of mitigation.

Good point, but what I'm trying to say is that there are limitations on every ability in the game.

There are two things people are complaining about here, the aim delay and wield delay on shotguns. The wield delay on shtoguns was added because angle grips had no purpose on them and since the PB fix shotguns were too powerful. From my own experiance playing if you take an angled grip on the shotgun it has an unoticable wield delay.
The aim delay on the other hand primarily effects people macro'ing guns up off the ground, which previously meant all you had to do was hit a key and click. The gun would appear in your hand, being dual wielded and then youd be able to fire it as if it was never dropped.

To bring this back to what I said at the start of my post, there were no limitations on either of these two things. Dropping your weapon or pulling it out of your storage slot meant nothing, and neither did wielding the shotgun.

I may have to play more rounds to get a real feel for how this has affected the game but from the three rounds I've played my style hasn't been affected much at all. This is just opinion from my own limited sample of experiances.

8 seconds to use the SG after getting back up sounds like way too long though, if that is the case it probably needs to have it's aim delay shortened (I think all weapons have different aim delays, too).

[CABAL]

What devs think when they write/say "Ambush"? I'm curious. For me it's when xeno is hiding behind wall, under table, in vents or in darkness and then strike when unexpected and close, like a lion. Running from the edge of screen is not ambush, it's charge. This update nerfed Marine ability against charging benos, not ambushing ones. Benos have no delay on exiting vents, running from under the table, or from "charging" from darkness etc.

And one other thing since this might be conveniently forgotten by staff: Marines complain on Dchat, OOC and on forum = "Nah", "no", "this is not an issue", "sucks to be you" and the funniest of them all: "Man up and deal with it".
Xenos complain by I guess private messages, private discord messages and ahelps: "You were killed becouse you didn't know by OOC means that this marines carries shotgun? Poor young runner (666), here, take this marines nerf, so they will never make you cry again."

Can you belive in it? THEY NERFED MARINES BECOUSE FEW XENOS LACK SKILL! Imagine something like that for marines: "Becouse of several complains from marines that they were not able to hit moving xenos, we buffed aiming so you only need to click on xeno sprite, not in front of him". Sounds ridiculous, right?

[Dauntasa]

The aim delay on the other hand primarily effects people macro'ing guns up off the ground, which previously meant all you had to do was hit a key and click. The gun would appear in your hand, being dual wielded and then youd be able to fire it as if it was never dropped.

This does not work for guns in the suit storage slot, and the standard xeno tactic is to drag people away from their guns if they drop them, meaning that you have to actually run back to your gun without being pounced. Also, if this had been a delay purely for picking guns up off the ground, not taking them from your suit slot or holster, I would be totally fine with it. But it isn't.

[Herac]

Also, if this had been a delay purely for picking guns up off the ground, not taking them from your suit slot or holster, I would be totally fine with it.

Interesting, I honestly thought people took more issue with not being able ot macro guns up straight away than click them out of their storage.

I mean, I've gone many rounds where I've never had to remove my secondary from storage once. Just macro my gun up the moment I get out of stun. The stun and drag routine is very common but you'd be surprised by how many xenos don't always do it, from my experiance (your miledge, as always, may very). Actually your post got me thinking, it would be kind of cool if the aim delay for taking guns out of back storage was removed or lowered, but the aim delay for doing pick-up stayed the same. People might actually have a good reason to get their secondary out instead of relying on macros.

I will add one other thing to this, because there are draw backs to it: the aim delay for picking up a gun (if I have understood this correctly) seems like it will have a bigger impact on people who aren't savy enough to use macros like most players, since they'll have the aim delay on top of click delay for getting their gun back.

[Casany]

Interesting, I honestly thought people took more issue with not being able ot macro guns up straight away than click them out of their storage.

I mean, I've gone many rounds where I've never had to remove my secondary from storage once. Just macro my gun up the moment I get out of stun. The stun and drag routine is very common but you'd be surprised by how many xenos don't always do it, from my experiance (your miledge, as always, may very). Actually your post got me thinking, it would be kind of cool if the aim delay for taking guns out of back storage was removed or lowered, but the aim delay for doing pick-up stayed the same. People might actually have a good reason to get their secondary out instead of relying on macros.

I will add one other thing to this, because there are draw backs to it: the aim delay for picking up a gun (if I have understood this correctly) seems like it will have a bigger impact on people who aren't savy enough to use macros like most players, since they'll have the aim delay on top of click delay for getting their gun back.

Yeah it’s way more debilitating for people taking weapons out of storage. It makes the Mag harness useless, and now marines can’t ever escape the hive or even get a shot off. They either always have to have one hand taken up to quickly wield (and then they can get pounced and drop the gun anyway) or just never go anywhere ever.

[Dauntasa]

Interesting, I honestly thought people took more issue with not being able ot macro guns up straight away than click them out of their storage.

I genuinely don't even have a pickup macro

[Nickvr628]

With all these delays, timers, and restrictions on marines, it feels like we are playing a turn based game while the xenos are playing quake.

Hopefully we get a battery of xeno nerfs next.

[Herac]

I genuinely don't even have a pickup macro

It has become such a crutch for me that I can't picture losing it.

Yeah it’s way more debilitating for people taking weapons out of storage. It makes the Mag harness useless, and now marines can’t ever escape the hive or even get a shot off.

I see what you mean, since taking a gun out of storage is always going to take a bit longer than just hitting the pick up macro. Tbh IMO the mag harness was never good, only really useful for stopping people from stealing your gun or trolling xenos if you get captured. As for the hive escape yes, this does have a very negative impact on that. I believe spooky said in light of the new aim and wield delay they might remove the stun from unnesting yourself. But with things like lights getting turned off when infected I think that's what they're going for, getting captured by xenos is meant to suck and escaping is meant to be hard as fuck.

Hopefully we get a battery of xeno nerfs next.

I'm actually expecting that's what we'll see, with the intended major xeno rebalanced and a change to round pace and gamep length (there were 2 events where the first contact rule was suspended). I can easily see why you might want to test individual features of a major rebalance before you roll out the whole package though, and this fits in with that.

[Grubstank]

I feel that xenos receive a disproportionate amount of voice in gameplay changes. I'd be fine with 50/50 as they're one of two sides... but it seems like nothing ever gets changed in the marines' favor; or if it does, it's as an afterthough to justify heavy-handed and wider-sweeping nerfs.

And that is in spite of the fact that every channel of feedback has been flooded with suggestions and begging to give the marines a buff for once.

[Gnorse]

xenos need to learn how to play the game at this point tbh.
But I digress, I'll sit this one out and see if the upcoming changes (TM) actually justify this.

[Nickvr628]

Today’s updates are good. The reverting of the backpack nerf and the m39 buffs are decent, and I like the tank changes to how it runs things over.

(Partial) faith has been restored.

[CABAL]

What I learned is that faith is stupid: What exactly are those "buffs"? Decreased recoil?

Update with nerf for marines = Nothing else
Update with "buff" for marines = Buff for xenos to counter.

Check the changelog for yourself. This is a golden rule of updates.

[Blade2000Br]

Remember, the game has a balance in favour of xenos, so justify 50/50 won't work here.

Now, just wait as devs will be experimenting with the changes and tweak it as time go. I guess after 3-4 years of then working on this game, you guys should have known by now how things roll. Relax, wait a week if you want, the game will be better as time goes. Always has been.

[Lorem123]

Nobody likes that style of development. The game hasn't been getting better for the past couple of months, only worse.