Update Discussion Thread (September 2018)

[RobBrown4PM]

I would be totally for Ckeys being shown after a Xeno's number. I think it would really help Xeno cohesion if we could tell who is who. A side effect of this would be a more hardened and interesting battle for the Marines.

[kamenkuro]

Actually, better idea. Since xenos get their names from the folks that encounter them, it'd be much better to let marines name them in the field. Like denoting high value targets. We call the queen screecher already. So it'd be like, point at xeno, call it "fuckface" and every marine knows it's called fuckface and they need to put bullets in that one in particular.

[Grubstank]

Actually, better idea. Since xenos get their names from the folks that encounter them, it'd be much better to let marines name them in the field. Like denoting high value targets. We call the queen screecher already. So it'd be like, point at xeno, call it "fuckface" and every marine knows it's called fuckface and they need to put bullets in that one in particular.

It is becoming extremely apparent that you are only opposing this change out of spite. This *isn't about* being a special fucking snowflake so people can ditz around with a special name. You are focusing almost entirely on the wrong aspects of this suggestion.

[RobBrown4PM]

Actually, better idea. Since xenos get their names from the folks that encounter them, it'd be much better to let marines name them in the field. Like denoting high value targets. We call the queen screecher already. So it'd be like, point at xeno, call it "fuckface" and every marine knows it's called fuckface and they need to put bullets in that one in particular.

Do you want meming, because this is how you get meming.

[kamenkuro]

Do you want meming, because this is how you get meming.

We meme with what we can. Besides, being able to single out high value targets would be great. If it gets bad it might have to have rules. Marines are already used to having a ton of rules to follow.

It is becoming extremely apparent that you are only opposing this change out of spite. This *isn't about* being a special fucking snowflake so people can ditz around with a special name. You are focusing almost entirely on the wrong aspects of this suggestion.

People want to be able to identify other people as xenos. I get it. Whether through ckeys or names they pick out. Ckeys makes more sense. The thing is that folks are worried about the metabuddy and metagaming aspect. Which when it comes to xenos can be more detrimental. If a xeno main that just spawned in needs a certain t3, some poor rando could be devolved to make room. For marines the most it means is that friends pass around barrel chargers. The downside is that xenos can metagame and take out folks they know are a problem. Considering how much whining xeno mains do to get stuff changed though, I won't be surprised if it happens. We don't have a tank because they cried so much about getting sniped by an arty LTB.

[Butlerblock]

xenos mains can say the same thing about marine mains whining about crusher tackle duration and changes compared to ltb: both were op and unfun to play against, so they were both addressed

[MattAtlas]

People want to be able to identify other people as xenos. I get it. Whether through ckeys or names they pick out. Ckeys makes more sense. The thing is that folks are worried about the metabuddy and metagaming aspect. Which when it comes to xenos can be more detrimental. If a xeno main that just spawned in needs a certain t3, some poor rando could be devolved to make room. For marines the most it means is that friends pass around barrel chargers. The downside is that xenos can metagame and take out folks they know are a problem. Considering how much whining xeno mains do to get stuff changed though, I won't be surprised if it happens. We don't have a tank because they cried so much about getting sniped by an arty LTB.

Come on man, stop the passive aggressive jabs. Childish shit doesn't belong in an actual discussion.

Why do you think Queen nerfs happened? Why did tackle nerfs happen? Why did the stat rebalance happen? Why did devour nerfs happen? Because someone in the other side complained.

Shit gets changed regardless of whatever side complains. You also act like marines don't know which Xeno to take out - but that's what maturity is...

[kamenkuro]

xenos mains can say the same thing about marine mains whining about crusher tackle duration and changes compared to ltb: both were op and unfun to play against, so they were both addressed

Come on man, stop the passive aggressive jabs. Childish shit doesn't belong in an actual discussion.

Why do you think Queen nerfs happened? Why did tackle nerfs happen? Why did the stat rebalance happen? Why did devour nerfs happen? Because someone in the other side complained.

Shit gets changed regardless of whatever side complains. You also act like marines don't know which Xeno to take out - but that's what maturity is...

The rate at which marines get their stuff nerfed or removed is far more frequent and detrimental than xenos so that's not an apt comparison. How long could crushers tackle spam and stomp people compared to how long we had the tank? Was artillery removed? No, the entire tank was removed.

[Grubstank]

People want to be able to identify other people as xenos. I get it. Whether through ckeys or names they pick out. Ckeys makes more sense. The thing is that folks are worried about the metabuddy and metagaming aspect. Which when it comes to xenos can be more detrimental. If a xeno main that just spawned in needs a certain t3, some poor rando could be devolved to make room. For marines the most it means is that friends pass around barrel chargers. The downside is that xenos can metagame and take out folks they know are a problem. Considering how much whining xeno mains do to get stuff changed though, I won't be surprised if it happens. We don't have a tank because they cried so much about getting sniped by an arty LTB.

You are drawing a false comparison.
By your rationale, we should see commanders ordering to have specific marines given free reign over req, or commanders demoting SLs before they reach the field because they meta-consider the SL to be shit, or so on.

There is a very good reason that we don't see that sort of shit, and that's because any overt elitism is extremely easy to stamp out. It is far, far, more realistic to see any 'metabuddy' activities to be on the scale of camaraderie (as you describe), or flocking to capable T3s and actually recognizing their leadership in the field.

Considering how much whining xeno mains do to get stuff changed though, I won't be surprised if it happens. We don't have a tank because they cried so much about getting sniped by an arty LTB.

I don't know what more to say to this except "fucking lol?"
Both marine and xenos players identify features that significantly detract from their enjoyment of the game. Get rid of your oppositional attitude -- we're no longer stuck in the dark ages of every single update being xenos-sided. The devs have gone to considerable lengths to consider the enjoyment of both factions, and xenos cheese gets removed just as frequently as marine cheese. You must be a bigot to be seriously making this remark at a time when xenos are the weakest they've been, and where marines are winning the majority of games. The marines didn't suddenly 'git-good' -- the xenos have just received wide-reaching nerfs.

And if you cannot possibly understand how being sniped with tank rounds might make a game less enjoyable, then you don't deserve a place in an intelligent, empathetic discussion.

The rate at which marines get their stuff nerfed or removed is far more frequent and detrimental than xenos so that's not an apt comparison.

please read the recent changelog then come back to resume this discussion. The overwhelming majority of those changes in the past month favor the marines.

[kamenkuro]

stuff

You aren't really making any points in favor of any changes. You just want to shoot my talking points down and act like you're intelligent.

[Butlerblock]

that’s because your posts deserve shooting down

[Grubstank]

You aren't really making any points in favor of any changes. You just want to shoot my talking points down and act like you're intelligent.

lol I'm shooting your talking points down because you haven't contributed a single thing to the original conversation topic, and because all your talking points are wrong. You just introduced them to move the goalposts away from the argument you were losing in the first place. I hope I have helped convince you that allowing xenos to identify each other (by digit preference or by ckey) won't demolish the game.

[kamenkuro]

that’s because your posts deserve shooting down

So you're being overly defensive

lol I'm shooting your talking points down because you haven't contributed a single thing to the original conversation topic, and because all your talking points are wrong--and you just introduced them to move the goalposts away from the argument you were losing. I hope I have helped convince you that allowing xenos to identify each other (by digit preference or by ckey) won't demolish the game.

I actually said marking high value targets would be a better naming system for xenos. You're just so far removed from the actual conversation in your attempt to discredit what I say that you refused to take it seriously. That's on you.

[Grubstank]

So you're being overly defensive



I actually said marking high value targets would be a better naming system for xenos. You're just so far removed from the actual conversation in your attempt to discredit what I say that you refused to take it seriously. That's on you.

Sorry. I ignored your marine-based naming system because it really didn't seem to be intended as a serious suggestion to the problem we were discussing. I think the part about labeling aliens "fuckface" for a single round really detracted from my opinion of it.

Would you like to explain how your suggestion would actually address any of the needs outlined by the xenos players? Xenos players are looking for a way to identify each other between rounds in order to establish a mutual rapport and build teamwork.

Is your suggestion that a xenos would be labeled "fuckface" for every single future round as long as they play the server? Or that they would be labeled "fuckface" for just a single round?
In the case of the former: Why would you let a marine choose a xeno's players permanent nickname, and what benefits does this provide over just letting the marine see that player's ckey or preferred digits?
In the case of the latter: This is useless and does not address any of the needs which prompted the suggested system of preferred digits/ckeys.


Stop pretending it was a serious suggestion. If it was a serious suggestion, then your perspective is so totally marine-sided and unempathetic that it isn't useful in solving problems in xenos-gameplay.


Edit: I will concede that your idea may have merit as its own system for marines, but I honestly don't see it applying to the problem/discussion at hand. It really doesn't seem to fill any of the niches that need to be occupied from a xenos-perspective. I would encourage you to suggest your system on gitlab, or even in this thread outside of the context of this discussion. I think if your idea is implemented, it would be in addition to what is proposed in terms of preferred digits/visible ckeys

[kamenkuro]

Stuff

do you think about what you type? That's a lot of nothing constructive

[Simo94]

Sorry. I ignored your marine-based naming system because it really didn't seem to be intended as a serious suggestion to the problem we were discussing. I think the part about labeling aliens "fuckface" for a single round really detracted from my opinion of it.

Would you like to explain how your suggestion would actually address any of the needs outlined by the xenos players? Xenos players are looking for a way to identify each other between rounds in order to establish a mutual rapport and build teamwork.

Is your suggestion that a xenos would be labeled "fuckface" for every single future round as long as they play the server? Or that they would be labeled "fuckface" for just a single round?
In the case of the former: Why would you let a marine choose a xeno's players permanent nickname, and what benefits does this provide over just letting the marine see that player's ckey or preferred digits?
In the case of the latter: This is useless and does not address any of the needs which prompted the suggested system of preferred digits/ckeys.


Stop pretending it was a serious suggestion. If it was a serious suggestion, then your perspective is so totally marine-sided and unempathetic that it isn't useful in solving problems in xenos-gameplay.


Edit: I will concede that your idea may have merit as its own system for marines, but I honestly don't see it applying to the problem/discussion at hand. It really doesn't seem to fill any of the niches that need to be occupied from a xenos-perspective. I would encourage you to suggest your system on gitlab, or even in this thread outside of the context of this discussion. I think if your idea is implemented, it would be in addition to what is proposed in terms of preferred digits/visible ckeys

Stop wasting your time, he is clearly just taking the piss.

Xeno players that wanted the naming clearly intended for a naming system only xenos can see, meaning marine players cant see those names. and again, if this does happen, please dont suggest ckeys, just nicknames, ckeys are permanent and you would catch a multikey ban if you tried to change your character.

[Grubstank]

do you think about what you type? That's a lot of nothing constructive

you posted a completely useless idea. My suggestion is to allow xenos to choose preferred digits or nicknames.

your posts are degenerating into increasingly-obvious trolling.

Stop wasting your time, he is clearly just taking the piss.

Xeno players that wanted the naming clearly intended for a naming system only xenos can see, meaning marine players cant see those names. and again, if this does happen, please dont suggest ckeys, just nicknames, ckeys are permanent and you would catch a multikey ban if you tried to change your character.

I agree ckeys shouldn't be the first resort. Preferred digits or nicknames would be a better way to go about it I think, as those methods both still grant you some measure of anonymity (should you choose to take advantage of that)

[kamenkuro]

stuff

And what have you been doing besides trying to stroke your own ego? The fact is that xenos don't need to have personal identifiers. They do fine without them. If they were actually nerfed into the ground where they actually needed to be more coordinated then perhaps that'd be more of a reasonable addition. They don't roleplay as it is, and ckeys, or number identifiers would organize them further yes, but they don't need that. Xenos have a lot of issues, and naming is the least of them.

[Grubstank]

And what have you been doing besides trying to stroke your own ego? The fact is that xenos don't need to have personal identifiers. They do fine without them. If they were actually nerfed into the ground where they actually needed to be more coordinated then perhaps that'd be more of a reasonable addition. They don't roleplay as it is, and ckeys, or number identifiers would organize them further yes, but they don't need that. Xenos have a lot of issues, and naming is the least of them.

What I have been doing is providing carefully thought-out counterpoints to everything you just brought up. Read the previous posts in this thread. You are yet to rebut them.

I don't know what game you've been playing or what forum you've been reading but I don't think I have anything more that I can say to you.

[kamenkuro]

stuff

Is that what you think you've been doing?

[solidfury7]

We can trial hive mind messages showing ckey so that xenos can recognise specific players without marines being able to see who each one is. I have a feeling it will end poorly though.

That's be a great thing to test.

[Blade2000Br]

Aside from Solid lovely break of the discussion, please lads, lets avoid getting agressive here. You can argument agaisn't each other points, but no need to be highly agressive.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Again guys, if shit gets fucky, we only really need an option for players to remain anonymous, when they don't feel safe about showing their ckey.

Nickname system would be fine too, though that depends on whether the nicknames have enough variety to them or not.

[WinterClould]

Might like some more xeno mains, not just marine players who also happen to play xeno, to say some things on this. Just more people saying their basic opinions even if it's been said before a few times by other people. To many people who don't have a stake in this being super agaisnt it when we can make this a purely viable to xeno players thing.


Totally allow benos to toggle if their ckey is visable for sure if we do this.

No nicknames for benos tho. Would be lame seeing people make dumb snowflake names for their xenos. Because you know we'd see someone try and make their fucking xeno seem friendly or cute or something else equally retarded or worse.

Disallow queens from reserving evolutions or devolving people just because of their ckey or or lack there of maybe? Would help with the elitist bullshit we could see coming from this. No one should lose their chance at trying something new like an evolution they have open just because the Queen doesn't know them because they might be new.

This whole thing will cause a little but not such a large amount of work for the mods and such that will need to watch over shitter queens being elitist or xenos actually harassing people and potentially using some previous round info to be assholes. "WinterClould shouldn't be a Rav, I've only seen him play it two other times and he got killed right away, you should give it to me instead Queen I'm really good." could be a frequent thing you might end up seeing people say to try and get other people's spots. Sounds worse saying it then it will actually be.

If this accomplishes the goal of getting more people playing xenos more often and those people get better at playing xeno and the average skill of xenos actually goes up I would call this a success. Even if it costs in some areas like making more work for staff and adding some toxicity it'll be worth it. Right now I'm guess the gap between top xeno players and the average player is just as MASSIVE as it was back when I was playing, maybe bigger with the recent xeno nerfs, so really anything that can raise the skill of xeno players without babysitting or cuddling them with stat buffs (which they might still need some of at this point) would be the tits.

[Sora9567]

I'm kind of conflicted when it comes to Xenos having something like a static number or nickname/ckey.

On one hand, being able to know who who can trust to be able to coordinate with is really important to making a play.

But on the other hand, with Xenos, individuality wasn't ever really a thing, since it's a hivemind and all, xenos are just an arm of the Queen's will.

I'm guessing the devs will try to find a nice balance of gameplay quality, and "Da Looooore".