Update Discussion Thread (September 2018)

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

But on the other hand, with Xenos, individuality wasn't ever really a thing, since it's a hivemind and all, xenos are just an arm of the Queen's will.

Exactly, i agree, thats why i dont think they should be labelled with a ckey(even with the option to turn it off) or a static number they always have, they arent meant to be individuals, weve been told that even as a rule that can get your banned from xeno if you fail to listen and obey the queen from being too much of a individual.

Either way, if the ckey trial goes ahead, we will all see how it goes, maybe it will work as well as some think it might, or it may not.

I still reckon a rank reward system for the xenoes would be better.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

Not sure how I feel about ckeys, like Mature Luker (DanKush420) is talking and etc

Think choosable nicknames would be better. But as it stands benos need literally ANYTHING at this point to help them be less awful to play

[WinterClould]

I think we can stop with "But the lore was like this" talk. Gameplay always trumps lore and we aren't Aliens: Colonial Marines 13 whatever we were before. We're CM:13 and the balance of the game comes before any kind of lore from something we aren't legally affiliated with cuz muh copyrights. We've moved away from the lore in a lot of ways whenever it benefits the game and we'll definitely do it again in the future. Lore is a fuckin mess anyway. We should write our own. I'd rejoin staff for that shit. Would be hype as fuck. Our own lore with our own rules. Establish ourselves with the healthy mix of OG Aliens and AvP type lore but with our own touches that make thing clearer and less inconsistent and shit ya know? Flesh out UPP and CLF to be less copy and paste of each other, give them relationships with each other and shit. Have our own stand ins for the Three World Empire and whatnot even? Who fuckin knows but we could totally do it and it would be hype.


But really making people's ckeys viable doesn't touch lore since it's OOC and referencing it in game would be ickyocky.

[Simo94]

Ckeys are just not viable, what if I wanna have two characters? I should multikey and catch a perma? If this does happen, we need a nickname system.

An ideal one IMO would be something like...a restrictive nickname system, where theres a template all xenos should follow, lets name them like labs or scientists do, each xeno either chooses their nick or takes a randomly generated one, for example, the template is two letters and three numbers, like XR531, AD715, QS009.....etc, and also it would be xeno side exclusive, meaning only xenos can see other xeno names.

[kastion]

I feel like I want something different than some people in this thread. I don't want a character. I want to be able to identify other people so I can build rapport and team work with them. I don't want anything IC such as a nickname because I want to be faceless xeno bending to the queens will like always. I want an OOC way to identify people. I don't want any mention of hey theres mastershakeez give him the t3 slot. I want to be lurker (random number) like always.

[kamenkuro]

Stuff

That's the thing. That's not a substantial change that would bring people to play xeno. Old xeno mains might perk up, but no one that already finds playing a xeno dull would consider it. Most people don't find it fun.
Other servers have handled xenos better and reworked them into an actual fun role. This servers xenos are locked in this archaic hell from ss13 servers. Where xenos were a surprise and they didn't need balances or nerfs because there was already so much shit that it could go either way. The xenos this server has are built for a different kind of game. Marines and xenos are playing 2 different games. None of the stuff they add takes into account how it will affect the other side which is why they always have to balance shit out.
Here, xeno is a braindead role. It's worse than FOB duty. There's a few ways to play. You can fuck around, yakkity saxin around the map playing tag. Go full commando and maul whoever you see. Cheese marines with gas, screeches, lunges, etc. That's pretty much it. After that it's following queens orders and finding a hole to march through. I've played on this server for years. And xeno has not gotten fun one bit. It's dull winning as xeno. Mostly because it's very low risk high reward. I find it more interesting to sit in deadchat and watch the match than participate as a xeno.
As someone that mains marines here and doesn't mind flip flopping elsewhere, I'm just gonna say names are the least important thing to work on when it comes to xenos.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

That's the thing. That's not a substantial change that would bring people to play xeno. Old xeno mains might perk up, but no one that already finds playing a xeno dull would consider it. Most people don't find it fun.
Other servers have handled xenos better and reworked them into an actual fun role. This servers xenos are locked in this archaic hell from ss13 servers. Where xenos were a surprise and they didn't need balances or nerfs because there was already so much shit that it could go either way. The xenos this server has are built for a different kind of game. Marines and xenos are playing 2 different games. None of the stuff they add takes into account how it will affect the other side which is why they always have to balance shit out.
Here, xeno is a braindead role. It's worse than FOB duty. There's a few ways to play. You can fuck around, yakkity saxin around the map playing tag. Go full commando and maul whoever you see. Cheese marines with gas, screeches, lunges, etc. That's pretty much it. After that it's following queens orders and finding a hole to march through. I've played on this server for years. And xeno has not gotten fun one bit. It's dull winning as xeno. Mostly because it's very low risk high reward. I find it more interesting to sit in deadchat and watch the match than participate as a xeno.
As someone that mains marines here and doesn't mind flip flopping elsewhere, I'm just gonna say names are the least important thing to work on when it comes to xenos.

Obviously not everyone would find the xeno gameplay dull, but i agree with your points as im one of them that does.Infact im banned from xenoes and dont even care about playing xenoes ever again either.One less larva to keep the round going and i get to observe and notice things alot of other people may not.

Even when i was playing xenoes and we won, and even if we won by the closest margin almost loosing, it was never anything like a marine win where you know how much more effort and work everyone had to do to get there.You still have that with xenoes in the way of effort and work, but its not on the same level by a long shot.

With a xeno win it was more like "Yeah, well we are the superior species, so i guess it was inevitable that we would be victorious" and that isnt really that fun at all.So yeah, i would tend to agree that accountability of xenoes through methods of identifying them would appear to be not the most biggest issue to address.

How many times can a crusher charge/stomp kill people in a single hallway before its not challenging anymore? Or a lurker(HUNTER!) spam pouncing marines on hydro road killing a squad or two on lowpop, exactly something that was a issue on the Alamayer with one single xenoe taking out alot of the shipside players way too easily previously.Is that really fun for either side? Is it challenging? These things still happen in the current game too.The balance is much better than it has been in the past, so hopefully that continues to be the case and we get less changes(tank, warrior grab) that totally throw the balance out of the fucking building window for months, and abit more stability like we are seeing.

True story.

[kastion]

Obviously not everyone would find the xeno gameplay dull, but i agree with your points as im one of them that does.Infact im banned from xenoes and dont even care about playing xenoes ever again either.One less larva to keep the round going and i get to observe and notice things alot of other people may not.

Even when i was playing xenoes and we won, and even if we won by the closest margin almost loosing, it was never anything like a marine win where you know how much more effort and work everyone had to do to get there.You still have that with xenoes in the way of effort and work, but its not on the same level by a long shot.

With a xeno win it was more like "Yeah, well we are the superior species, so i guess it was inevitable that we would be victorious" and that isnt really that fun at all.So yeah, i would tend to agree that accountability of xenoes through methods of identifying them would appear to be not the most biggest issue to address.

How many times can a crusher charge/stomp kill people in a single hallway before its not challenging anymore? Or a lurker(HUNTER!) spam pouncing marines on hydro road killing a squad or two on lowpop, exactly something that was a issue on the Alamayer with one single xenoe taking out alot of the shipside players way too easily previously.Is that really fun for either side? Is it challenging? These things still happen in the current game too.The balance is much better than it has been in the past, so hopefully that continues to be the case and we get less changes(tank, warrior grab) that totally throw the balance out of the fucking building window for months, and abit more stability like we are seeing.

True story.

I disagree you have 4x as many people on marine so by definition there is less work and effort. Marines point and click and stand behind barricades 90% of the round. They aren't hard at all. The thing that makes marines a challenge is getting the bad players to not FF and follow orders. There isn't much actual skill involved. Xenos take way more individual skill and effort especially since there is no way to have reliable team work (the whole point of this change). Its obvious you haven't played xeno in a long time cause you have no idea what its like.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

I disagree you have 4x as many people on marine so by definition there is less work and effort. Marines point and click and stand behind barricades 90% of the round. They aren't hard at all. The thing that makes marines a challenge is getting the bad players to not FF and follow orders. There isn't much actual skill involved. Xenos take way more individual skill and effort especially since there is no way to have reliable team work (the whole point of this change). Its obvious you haven't played xeno in a long time cause you have no idea what its like.

I was expecting someone might try the "you havnt played in so long, you have no idea!" card, well i can tell you that i havnt been playing xenoes for only a couple of months, not years or a long term amount of time and my observations and opinions are very much so current enough and relevant, but good try shrugging it off over something youve assuming, which isnt the case.

When i say the effort and work, maybe for people like yourself, i shouldnt have made it so simple.I take your points though.

Your claim that 90% of the time marines are behind cades point and clicking is absurdly stupid and not even close to what actually happens.Sure, there is a certain amount of that, but theres alot of other kind of clicking marines have to do as well.

Look, im not going to go into every single thing pointing out the massive more amount of work marine players have to do, because you already know it, act dumb about it all you want.We all know its easier to play xeno than it is to marine.

[kastion]

I was expecting someone might try the "you havnt played in so long, you have no idea!" card, well i can tell you that i havnt been playing xenoes for only a couple of months, not years or a long term amount of time and my observations and opinions are very much so current enough and relevant, but good try shrugging it off over something youve assuming, which isnt the case.

When i say the effort and work, maybe for people like yourself, i shouldnt have made it so simple.I take your points though.

Your claim that 90% of the time marines are behind cades point and clicking is absurdly stupid and not even close to what actually happens.Sure, there is a certain amount of that, but theres alot of other kind of clicking marines have to do as well.

Look, im not going to go into every single thing pointing out the massive more amount of work marine players have to do, because you already know it, act dumb about it all you want.We all know its easier to play xeno than it is to marine.

unlike you I play both sides, and yes the game is vastly different than it was a few months ago. When im xeno once marines land I am fighting 24/7 until I die or they all die. Marines only leave their barricades at 2 points, 1st when they push into caves, they then set up a new set of barricades in the caves and sit behind them until forced out. Second time is when they get pushed out they fight their way back to fob then sit in their barricades until pushed off planet. Now they build barricades in SD or CIC and sit in those until they are dead. You spend 10% of your time pushing or fleeing and the rest sitting in barricades. Xenos have to fight non stop or they get anhillated because they are outnumbered atleast 4 to 1. The "Work" you do consists of getting food out of a vending machine and clicking to get some weapons and ammo. Then you just stand around until its time to point and click. Sure a specialist or an engineer might have more to do but that is hardly representative of the marines as a whole. Seriously try playing some xenos currently and maybe you will realize it takes alot more effort.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

unlike you I play both sides, and yes the game is vastly different than it was a few months ago. When im xeno once marines land I am fighting 24/7 until I die or they all die. Marines only leave their barricades at 2 points, 1st when they push into caves, they then set up a new set of barricades in the caves and sit behind them until forced out. Second time is when they get pushed out they fight their way back to fob then sit in their barricades until pushed off planet. Now they build barricades in SD or CIC and sit in those until they are dead. You spend 10% of your time pushing or fleeing and the rest sitting in barricades. Xenos have to fight non stop or they get anhillated because they are outnumbered atleast 4 to 1. The "Work" you do consists of getting food out of a vending machine and clicking to get some weapons and ammo. Then you just stand around until its time to point and click. Sure a specialist or an engineer might have more to do but that is hardly representative of the marines as a whole. Seriously try playing some xenos currently and maybe you will realize it takes alot more effort.

Firstly, as i mentioned i WAS playing both sides until just recently, i just said that! Not to mention even though im banned, i can still play and have played as xeno ERT.I do still get to play it occasionally here and there "accidentally" as i dont get to pick what the ERT is.

Secondly, if you have been playing both sides as you claim, you would of noticed that the way barricades function now, they get destroyed slowly just from marines trying to shoot past it.The barricades are not a saving grace like they once were.I dont see how anyone could claim, like you are, that marine gameplay is more "point and click" than xenoes, because thats literally all xenoe gameplay basically is.

Im not saying in any way it doesnt take effort to play xenoes, it clearly does, im claiming its abit more technical and less "spammy" than xenoe gameplay, which it is.

Im not saying anything that isnt clearly obvious for anyone that cares to look.I was just playing xenoe, im not missing out on much, however i will say that probably in the time i havnt been playing them, they do seem to appear like they are needing more skill/effort/teamwork/whatever, hence why i believe its a fairer balance currently in some ways.

[Butlerblock]

the classic “we’re not like this, you’re like this” response

[Gnorse]

both sides take a whole lotta effort. different types of effort, but effort nonetheless.

[spookydonut]

Let's stick to discussing updates instead of each other.

[Butlerblock]

>closes threads that are even remotely close to discussing opinions/updates
>gets mad when people start derailing the update discussion thread

[solidfury7]

>closes threads that are even remotely close to discussing opinions/updates
>gets mad when people start derailing the update discussion thread

They're not even comparable.

Multiple threads saying the same stuff or being spread out isn't productive

Having one mega thread monthly which is moderated to stay on topic is.

[Pogo92]

Because lore, roleplay, and gameplay. Xenos don't get to have names because they're not individuals. Simple as that. They want to get names they can play a marine.

It shouldn't be any surprise that Xenos have such a smaller player base when this is how they're treated.

Let's not pretend like CM is some phenomenal mechanical game. It's largely driven by roleplay and, lo and behold, the side that actually facillitates even basic roleplay is far more popular. You want to get more players on the Xeno side to alleviate balancing? Maybe think about what's fun about SS13 and try to do more of that for the Xenos.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

>closes threads that are even remotely close to discussing opinions/updates
>gets mad when people start derailing the update discussion thread

Don't get too mad at Spooky 'See a Xeno Nerf a Xeno' Donut, he is very busy with a long list of other nerfs to xenos and buffs to marines.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

It shouldn't be any surprise that Xenos have such a smaller player base when this is how they're treated.

Let's not pretend like CM is some phenomenal mechanical game. It's largely driven by roleplay and, lo and behold, the side that actually facillitates even basic roleplay is far more popular. You want to get more players on the Xeno side to alleviate balancing? Maybe think about what's fun about SS13 and try to do more of that for the Xenos.

Xenoes are still getting wins, especially on lowpop, they are kicking ass when im playing daily.I personally myself dont play for roleplay but for the variation that the marine side has more of, over the xenoe side.

Is the problem that xenoes need more to do? Which would in turn help with more roleplay? Do xenoes actually want to roleplay? Or want more of it.

If its more variation thats wanted for xenoes, then little additions like the suggestions i and other members had in my "Armor light dissatisfaction" thread, for instance was to instead of making the armor light suddenly turn off, allow the xenoes to either slash the light(which can be repaired with a light replacer) or acid it away, its all these little things that xenoes could be allowed to do which will add variation, which will then have the byproduct of "roleplay" by the players, let alone making it more realistic/immersible for both players :

"Hey Spitter sister 449, did you end up putting acid on all those bright thingies on the hosts?" The drone says.

"They are fucking melting my armor light off Sergeant, what the fuck do i do!" The captured marine says.

It doesnt have to be this exact idea, but ideas like this would help encourage roleplaying i imagine, so you guys should start thinking of ideas and posting them on gitlab or here to get it talked about and introduced.

[spookydonut]

Don't get too mad at Spooky 'See a Xeno Nerf a Xeno' Donut, he is very busy with a long list of other nerfs to xenos and buffs to marines.

Don't shitpost here please.

I'm simply reminding people to focus on discussing updates and potential updates instead of accusing each other of bias due to being a xeno/marine main.

[Ttly]

How about just showing the Queen's ckey?
It's already shown at end of round anyway.
Since xenos are supposed to always obey her, it could be reassuring to know that it isn't a random BR queen and all that.

[carlarc]

BR queens are obvious though, we dont need that

[CABAL]

New Almayer layout sucks. Who though it was a good idea to put restriction for marines to that one specific windoor that I always used to get free labeler?

[Justicer3792]

I think it might be a bit early to see about the Brig map change, but I have a few more immediate thoughts about auto-active SD. I don't see it as a good thing, in a sentence. Forcing or more commonly 'railroading' choices players can make is something I don't really appreciate. Let the players make choices, such as go to CIC so SD gets activated, or SD for the final stand. All this causes is more even rounds to go towards marines, since they have an auto-win button after a set amount of time. I like playing praetorian, mostly so I can survive and protect the queen while other T3s die to attrition. This often leads to me being the last T3, and desperately fending off wave after wave of marine counterattacks shipside. This takes away that element, and I'm just not a fan.

[kastion]

I think it might be a bit early to see about the Brig map change, but I have a few more immediate thoughts about auto-active SD. I don't see it as a good thing, in a sentence. Forcing or more commonly 'railroading' choices players can make is something I don't really appreciate. Let the players make choices, such as go to CIC so SD gets activated, or SD for the final stand. All this causes is more even rounds to go towards marines, since they have an auto-win button after a set amount of time. I like playing praetorian, mostly so I can survive and protect the queen while other T3s die to attrition. This often leads to me being the last T3, and desperately fending off wave after wave of marine counterattacks shipside. This takes away that element, and I'm just not a fan.

I think its a xeno minor for the 22 minute round end thing. Either way its terrible cause how are xenos supposed to get a major? Theres no way to kill marines in 22 minutes if they turtle at all.