Update Discussion Thread (September 2018)

[Butlerblock]

we don't have magical mind powers we can't just mindlessly detect something offscreen and then know of it's position for the rest of eternity.

[Dauntasa]

While I agree that a buff was highly necessary, I do believe it went slightly overboard.

There's a surprising amount of situations where it's either impossible to gather intel or some people actually refuse to gather it.
Another thing is that the miniscope gives it a killing range where said lack of intel is instant punishment by death if you're not constantly moving like a madman.
As for the mobility, SADAR is far more flexible than the tank. The main problem with the tank was bringing it to bear against xenos, and all smart xenos would just retreat inside the caves or behind some heavy walls. With the SADAR, it's much harder since it can follow you basically anywhere. This also brings me to your argument about not standing where the SADAR can hit you: What if you HAVE to stand there? Have you made a mistake? Maybe. Have you been forced into a no-win situation with no options but to die? Maybe. In the first case, your own fault. In the latter, as a fucking XENOMORPH, you should be able to do at least something.

And last but not least, simple taking out one T3 can completely turn the tide of the fight, but the capacity to take out multiple in short order is just game-breaking. This goes double in low-medium pop, since there won't be that many xenos anyways. Simply having your T3s get one-shot from outside of visual range because young runner (137) decided to engage marines instead of being useful and scout and warn you about it. Not to mention xenos have harder time defending their hive in low-med pop.

And don't even get me started on the large number of xeno players who absolutely refuse to even talk...

The RPG is exactly one person. Firing it in a cave or tight space is extremely difficult with dozens of marines milling around you, meaning that retreating there to avoid it is a good strategy just like the tank. The RPG can carry 7ish shots maximum, has to order more from req for 40 points because he only starts with 2 APs, and is very vulnerable when caught out because they don't have a good close range weapon. Their offscreen vision is like 5 spaces, also, and requires them to stand still.

There are many, many times when a specialist will die because of PFCs being useless. More times than a T3 will die because of T1s being useless. That's just part of how this game works. Xenos have been in a position where teamwork wasn't necessary for a while, and now it is.

Additionally a bad shot from an AP rocket is actually going to gib a downed marine, rather than the LTB which could only gib standing ones, so it can't really be used to save people.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

This buff was very good and needed. The RPG was dogshit before.

HAhha, yeah its definitely not dogshit at the moment!

[Winter]

Honestly, I kinda miss the tank because it was fun to mess with and name, and chat at the tanker crew as an MT.

[Simo94]

Capturing marines as Runner caste is outright impossible, pounce stun is too short and tackling is unreliable, something needs to be done about it.

[kamenkuro]

Capturing marines as Runner caste is outright impossible, pounce stun is too short and tackling is unreliable, something needs to be done about it.

Trying to capture marines as a solo runner is a fool's errand and you deserve all that lovingly placed buckshot

[zoboomafoo]

Capturing marines as elder+ runner used to be trivial if they weren't with a large group, prior to the tackle nerf. Runners don't do a whole lot of good anymore without someone else to stun marines for them. Even taking on a lone marine is relatively difficult now.

[Lolibandit]

Trying to capture marines as a solo runner is a fool's errand and you deserve all that lovingly placed buckshot

So after all these nerfs, what is the role of the runner then?

[misto]

purpose of runner is evolve into something useful or apply a larva tax onto the hive as they inevitably die to a handful of rifle shots or a buckshot hit (this also helps give marines the slight illusion that their guns arent complete shit) and be a menace to more valuable xenos by bodyblocking them

at least by getting killed off they dont have to sit around in the hive all day long watching hosts pop, so they arguably have a better life than sentinels

ps. https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMarines/issues/4288 mucho upvotes! dismissed.

ha ha, in all seriousness they can sometimes get a little work done if they rush in right after a queen screech and drag people to hell or concentrate on killing crippled marines who are trying to limp their way home unprotected

[Simo94]

ATM a runner cant capture a marine even in a 1v1 situation, and also yall make the mistake of balancing around that situation, xenos are supposed to be able to take on atleast 2 marines at once, since they have a huge number disadvantage compared to marine side.

[Gnorse]

-snip-

I don't think that's how that should work, honestly.
Buffing xenos to make them rely on their stats instead of skill is ... bad design choice.

You may be right if you're balancing around T3s and maybe T2s being able to take on two marines at once, but not T1s.

[Butlerblock]

you can’t even take on two marines no matter how skilled you are. this isn’t a skill issue, it’s a stats issue

[Simo94]

I don't think that's how that should work, honestly.
Buffing xenos to make them rely on their stats instead of skill is ... bad design choice.

You may be right if you're balancing around T3s and maybe T2s being able to take on two marines at once, but not T1s.

Balancing around a few select elites is the bad design choice, we've seen it with charging queens and the tank.

[MattAtlas]

The RPG is exactly one person. Firing it in a cave or tight space is extremely difficult with dozens of marines milling around you, meaning that retreating there to avoid it is a good strategy just like the tank. The RPG can carry 7ish shots maximum, has to order more from req for 40 points because he only starts with 2 APs, and is very vulnerable when caught out because they don't have a good close range weapon. Their offscreen vision is like 5 spaces, also, and requires them to stand still.

There are many, many times when a specialist will die because of PFCs being useless. More times than a T3 will die because of T1s being useless. That's just part of how this game works. Xenos have been in a position where teamwork wasn't necessary for a while, and now it is.

Additionally a bad shot from an AP rocket is actually going to gib a downed marine, rather than the LTB which could only gib standing ones, so it can't really be used to save people.

I've played as RPG recently and you really do not need AT to do anything. HE will gib xenos but NOT marines. An HE AoE hit will absolutely fuck up any xeno with a 5 second stun but it will NOT stun marines for that long. If the RPG spec is ANYWHERE near decent they'll instantly fire at whatever enters their screen. You can't swarm an RPG spec either because every (yes, every caste, queen and crusher included) xeno will just get stunned by the blast radius.

I am fine with an RPG buff, but I do agree the stuns are a bit overboard. I don't mind xenos being gibbed, but being able to stun an entire xeno push with one click in any single situation isn't something I want. Couple that with nades' huge blast radius and you have a very easy push killer.

[Chaznoodles]

Clever claymore placement can bounce xenos between exploding claymores.

[Grubstank]

If RPGs can gib xenos then it's only fair that they can gib marines on an ff too -- just saying

High risk high reward

[CABAL]

I've played as RPG recently and you really do not need AT to do anything. HE will gib xenos but NOT marines. An HE AoE hit will absolutely fuck up any xeno with a 5 second stun but it will NOT stun marines for that long. If the RPG spec is ANYWHERE near decent they'll instantly fire at whatever enters their screen. You can't swarm an RPG spec either because every (yes, every caste, queen and crusher included) xeno will just get stunned by the blast radius.

I am fine with an RPG buff, but I do agree the stuns are a bit overboard. I don't mind xenos being gibbed, but being able to stun an entire xeno push with one click in any single situation isn't something I want. Couple that with nades' huge blast radius and you have a very easy push killer.

Even so, marine after that is fucked anyway. IB, fractures, pain, slow down and normal bleeding. After that you are pretty much only good for Medevac.

This is why I came up with another idea when we were talking about slug and buckshot stuns. Change stuns to slowdown for xenos. Just lying on the floor is no fun, becouse it takes all of your control. If beno could still crawl a title per second for 5 seconds instead of 5 seconds of stun it would be great.

This way push will be halted, but not killed. And it would add more "strategy" and tactic to Xeno's gameplay, becouse frist wave of defenders could shake off pulse rifle bullets while others would hide behind their backs.

[MattAtlas]

Even so, marine after that is fucked anyway. IB, fractures, pain, slow down and normal bleeding. After that you are pretty much only good for Medevac.

This is why I came up with another idea when we were talking about slug and buckshot stuns. Change stuns to slowdown for xenos. Just lying on the floor is no fun, becouse it takes all of your control. If beno could still crawl a title per second for 5 seconds instead of 5 seconds of stun it would be great.

This way push will be halted, but not killed. And it would add more "strategy" and tactic to Xeno's gameplay, becouse frist wave of defenders could shake off pulse rifle bullets while others would hide behind their backs.

No. Explosions currently do almost no damage to humans. RPGing a xenomorph in front of me with HE (literally in front of me, PB distance) wounded me up to... yellow health, no broken bones, a 3 second stun and a grand total of 10 seconds of deaf time.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

Current beno changes make it easy season for hunting. I love winning as much as the next guy but this is just getting silly with how easy it has become. Benos are now made of paper and tackle and been changed to tickle.

[spookydonut]

Alright I guess we over corrected from "xenos are bullet sponges" to "xenos are made of paper"

[Steelpoint]

Xenos made out of thin paper would make sense if dying as a Xeno was not a major setback, but since it can take an hour to POWERLEVEL your Xeno pet to maximum levels, its kinda bad.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

New tackle changes have made it pretty bad as a xeno even as an ancient runner you’re tackle and pounce is so short that you can’t even 1v1 a marine.

The explosion changes were good but Xenos are just so weak at the moment reguardless of skill

[WinterClould]

Marines are kicking pathetic xeno ass right now even without the tank? Let the good times roll I say.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Alright I guess we over corrected from "xenos are bullet sponges" to "xenos are made of paper"

Yeah, just abit.

Just lying on the floor is no fun, becouse it takes all of your control. If beno could still crawl a title per second for 5 seconds instead of 5 seconds of stun it would be great.

This way push will be halted, but not killed. And it would add more "strategy" and tactic to Xeno's gameplay, becouse frist wave of defenders could shake off pulse rifle bullets while others would hide behind their backs.

Ive always thought a crawl when in critical for both side would be a good addition, and yeah add another small level of strategic play for both sides.Didnt there use to be a human crawl anyhow? Might be thinking of another server i played.

[MattAtlas]

It only one hits when it a direct click hit (with AP). If you standstill against a RPG that you can easily see (and have fellow xenos warn you about it, you know, teamplay...)
you deserve to die. Time for t3's to grow a brain. Would you stand infront of a M56 stat. MG so it can easily hit you? No you wouldnt. Learn and adapt xenos instead of whining for a nerf for every new/changed marine thing.

This buff was very good and needed. The RPG was dogshit before. The only use it had before was HE and hope you can stun em long enough for your fellow ungas to finish them off. And you didnt have many HE rockets for that job thats for sure.

Keep the RPG the way it is and dont just nerf stuff because of a "I died plz nerf"

Reading back on this comment it's so passive aggressive it's actually hilarious.

High explosive rockets gib, AT is useless because HE just does it better. HE has a 5x5 stun of death that lasts for NINE seconds - of I have a video of this and measured it off of it. I don't mind gibbing on direct hits with ANTI-TANK, but come on, nine seconds of stun time in a 5x5 area? It's way over the top.