Update Discussion Thread (September 2018)

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

I have seen this maybe 3 or 4 times over the years. This is not a problem, it's simply a once in a blue moon action.

Yeah i will admit this exact tactic isnt something we see daily, still a example nevertheless.

I mean, it's obviously the queen said she would build a wall and marines would pay for it.

You thoguht she was kidding? MUAWAWAWAW!

But yeah, that's some rare stuff that don't happen that often.

Hahah! "BUILD MY WALL!"

"THE MEXI, I MEAN MARINES WILL PAY FOR IT!!"

There's no benefit to keeping our current "mystery" lore/whatever. Survivors are already jackshit, so we might as well remove them and push the timeline into the future where marines already know about the xenos.

Other than that, removing Fog/Timelocks or at least heavily reducing them would be a good idea since xenos mature faster.

Ive seen survivors say when asked who they were, what the threat it is and what they were doing went :

"player name' sighs, like they have explained this many times already"

No shit, says alot.That was just as recent as that picture above of the "LV Border Force Wall".

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

snap

Have to agree, being with all the marines to rush, restock, and rearm after retreating with 50 of their mates to wait the ' totally unexpected shuttle crash' is pretty funny. Espcially the akward milling about in key areas for seemingly no reason.
Also one thing I noticed with the ship side 20min timer thing is once it inevitably ticks over; it feels like a marine win and not a draw. There is no crash animation, everyone doesn't die, just the little pop-up and some music.

[misto]

They barely build up anything of worth on ANY map, seeming more focused on "WEEDING EVERYTHING" rather than weeding areas near the starting hive and then building it up. I can't tell you how often I seen weeds at the LZ, even if there is no point in having them there because they just get cut up anyways. What, is their tactic to just inconvenience the marines? Because that is what they accomplish, nothing more.

Hell, most drones just resort to sticky resin spam, which seems more like a band-aid for poor defenses than a proper defensive system. Sure, it can slow down a marine advance, but you know what would be better? A proper defense made up of resin, walls, and maybe even the odd door or two to help deny marines open access to an area for a moment. And of course we can't forget about scattering eggs all over the hive, right?

Gah, now I'm just ranting, but as a person who has played a fair amount of xeno and has done quite a bit of drone gameplay, I know for a fact that not a lot of drones really don't seem to give a shit about building reasonable defenses that utilize more than just weeds and sticky resin.

the problem with building walls is the boilers will bitch at you for blocking their line of sight/line of fire

if you build corridors that are just 1-tile wide, everybody except maybe crushers will bitch because they dont want to have to lay down for a moment to let others pass before continuing onward, and it also sometimes contributes to bodyblocking death nightmares

nearly everyone hates your ass if you build doors. humans break doors easily enough anyways.

regular resin walls are kind of weak and drone plasma regains slow till you hit elder/ancient so theres only so much walling you can do thats worth a damn before you have to sit on your ass doing jack shit waiting for plasma to recharge. also, now that destroyed walls leave bare dirt below them instead of weeds it has an unfortunate side effect of leaving lots of barren areas

so sticky really is a great all round compromise, blocking no xenos and slowing all humans, leaving nice weeds underneath

hivelord walls are at least good and strong, if it still takes a while before the hivelord is regaining plasma quickly enough that they dont have extended periods of doing nothing as they wait for plas to recharge

doesnt help that youre constantly ordered to build shit in dumb ass places like the barrens on LV, where all that plasma will go to waste as the bombs start falling

[misto]

In my opinion shipside combat is repetitive, stale and lacks variety.

tons of things have been suggested that keep being denied that would help with encouraging more focus on groundside.

a "we give up and just leave" button that just ends the round then and there, for the marine commanders to use if they are confident there's no turning things around, for example. then we can just move on to a nice fresh round right away. suggested loads of times.

maybe once enough casualties pile up, the cargo computer gets the stick out of its ass and cranks up how many points it gives so that the marines are encouraged to keep going back down, fighting with better equipment until they are truly and utterly exhausted? suggested loads of times.

it's ds crash after ds crash forever babey

[GenericUsername]

I'm all in for changing the lore so marines are aware of xenos, but I've yet to find an explanation to why wouldn't they just nuke the colony, at least after they evacuate.

[Steelpoint]

Easiest solution would be to state that Weyland Yutani has pressured the USCM to render every effort to save the colony/base instead of just nuking it.

Alternatively, you could state that the USCM have been employing a scorched earth strategy thus far, in nuking areas that are overrun by Xenomorphs, but this strategy is resulting in tanking morale and the USCM is being grilled by the media. So Command wants to 'score a win for the good guys' and is sending in the battalion to try and save the colony instead of blowing it up.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

I'm all in for changing the lore so marines are aware of xenos, but I've yet to find an explanation to why wouldn't they just nuke the colony, at least after they evacuate.

Oh, easy:

They don't have any nukes.

Like, seriously, why would a patrol ship have nuclear warheads? Especially on a hotspot border with the UPP.

[Garrison]

I'm all in for changing the lore so marines are aware of xenos, but I've yet to find an explanation to why wouldn't they just nuke the colony, at least after they evacuate.

If I recall correctly, there was a time when nukes were a thing, but the authorization code could only be given with permission from Admin High Command, which rarely happened. Even then, the game was considered a draw if a nuke was used. Seemed more like a way to forcefully end a round rather then claim a victory.

[Anoonki]

Oh, easy:

They don't have any nukes.

Like, seriously, why would a patrol ship have nuclear warheads? Especially on a hotspot border with the UPP.

Patrol ship identifies xenomorph threat on the world below.
Patrol ship holds position, calls in to regional command, requests fully armed and equipped warships.
Patrol ship continues holding position until the cavalry arrives, blockading the world.

Not to say I disagree completely, we gotta have gameplay somehow.
Steelpoint's explanation is better, though.

[Omicega]

My headcanon for the "first contact rule removed" rounds has always been that the USCM has fought xenos before, but only in small numbers OR a weaker and less resilient strain of them -- kind of like how xenos in the movies die more easily whereas ours are bullet sponges. It's kind of an excuse for game mechanics and meets it halfway, but to me it gives marines a reason to feel ICly confident and gung-ho about deploying and still preserves our current atmosphere of everything slowly going to shit after they actually get stuck in.

[CABAL]

Maybe make something "blocking", or preventing a nuke to be fired planetside. Something like Jammer that needs to be destroyed/turned off. This would give marines objective to complete without having to kill every xeno. Make new underground for every map with this jammer that xenos have to defend. It would be like reverse-Alamo invasion.

Xeno's hivemind is omniscent enough to have knowledge about this jammer and it's importance, or just Queen Mother said so to defend it.

[Chaznoodles]

Sudden round ends due to shoehorned 'planet crash' are ridiculously dumb, and unfun for everyone involved. There's no heroic last stands, there's no swarming the marines as xenos. It's xenos standing around aimlessly until the timer expires, because they don't have to put any effort in because marines are now forced to attack them, when the marines should be having a last-ditch defence of their home.

[MattAtlas]

Sudden round ends due to shoehorned 'planet crash' are ridiculously dumb, and unfun for everyone involved. There's no heroic last stands, there's no swarming the marines as xenos. It's xenos standing around aimlessly until the timer expires, because they don't have to put any effort in because marines are now forced to attack them, when the marines should be having a last-ditch defence of their home.

Yeahhh I agreed with the update at first but this reflects my current opinion. Really don't like forced round ends.

[GenericUsername]

Regarding the nuke problem, we would need to give the USCM a very good reason for not nuking the colony, and that would probably require WY to have a tighter leash on the USCM and the colony to hold more important treasures, so they prevent them from just nuking it.

Now, about the planet crash, it's really unfun. In my opinion, ARES should steer the Almayer towards the nearest military station (though due to damage to the AI core it could end up docking with a UPP/CLF station) for reinforcements. The marines have to defend the ship and pray for RnGesus, while ayys have to kill/capture everyone. To give ayys a boost, cryo malfunctions, each pod releasing comatose marines (NPC marines, with no soul and such) which the ayys can capture and nest without worrying about watching over them. It all culminates with a battle for the Almayer, with the ayys, the fresh arrived reinforcements and the remaining marines fighting for control of the ship and of the military station.

The battle can drag on, the issue is that the dead have nothing to do. (most) Live marines don't complain about 1 hour shipside battles, but ghosts do.

[CABAL]

Regarding the nuke problem, we would need to give the USCM a very good reason for not nuking the colony, and that would probably require WY to have a tighter leash on the USCM and the colony to hold more important treasures, so they prevent them from just nuking it.

Now, about the planet crash, it's really unfun. In my opinion, ARES should steer the Almayer towards the nearest military station (though due to damage to the AI core it could end up docking with a UPP/CLF station) for reinforcements. The marines have to defend the ship and pray for RnGesus, while ayys have to kill/capture everyone. To give ayys a boost, cryo malfunctions, each pod releasing comatose marines (NPC marines, with no soul and such) which the ayys can capture and nest without worrying about watching over them. It all culminates with a battle for the Almayer, with the ayys, the fresh arrived reinforcements and the remaining marines fighting for control of the ship and of the military station.

The battle can drag on, the issue is that the dead have nothing to do. (most) Live marines don't complain about 1 hour shipside battles, but ghosts do.

This is where ERT should step in. Or make some droids with guns for ghosts.

[solidfury7]

Sudden round ends due to shoehorned 'planet crash' are ridiculously dumb, and unfun for everyone involved. There's no heroic last stands, there's no swarming the marines as xenos. It's xenos standing around aimlessly until the timer expires, because they don't have to put any effort in because marines are now forced to attack them, when the marines should be having a last-ditch defence of their home.

I believe Mr Chaz has it correct. There is a lot of build up for very little release.

[Dauntasa]

Regarding the nuke problem, we would need to give the USCM a very good reason for not nuking the colony, and that would probably require WY to have a tighter leash on the USCM and the colony to hold more important treasures, so they prevent them from just nuking it

Every colony has a defence system which will shoot down oncoming nukes unless disabled first. Disabling it requires CL's authorization and for the marines to physically go down to a control room on the surface to shut it off.

[Coat McMutton]

I heard that in civilized societies nuking civilian targets, especially colonies that you own yourself, is frowned upon. It's also much easier to send in clean-up crews to restore a colony than to explain how this new crater formed without any asteroids nearby that could be the cause.

Regarding the round-end, I am still convinced that a "Hey guys, round's over" while you are still busy fighting 20v20 is a bad move. Zero closure. Zero enjoyment.

[GenericUsername]

I heard that in civilized societies nuking civilian targets, especially colonies that you own yourself, is frowned upon. It's also much easier to send in clean-up crews to restore a colony than to explain how this new crater formed without any asteroids nearby that could be the cause.

That's true IF you're fighting humans. But when you're fighting aliens there's no moral restriction on using any kind of weaponry avaiable, specially when you know that they can't be reasoned with and will kill and/or violate any foreigner. I'm pretty sure it would cost less to nuke the colony and move on than to send people to die, and even if there is one or two live colonists in a xeno infested colony, it still isn't worth it cost wise. W-Y doesn't focus on morals, only on profit.

It's basically the trolly problem but with xenos involved.

[RobBrown4PM]

There is no reason as to why the USCM wouldn't just glass the planet if they knew Xeno's were hived up on it. Best to keep it as is.

[Steelpoint]

The reason the USCM won't glass this planet in particular are the same as why the Imperium won't glass the planet in the Space Marines game due to the Ork threat.

That being the planet is of strategic value (or the current political climate makes destroying that planet a very poor idea) that cannot be just tossed away so easily.

Thinking of an excuse to get the grunts involved is not that hard.

I'd be very interested if we tried out letting the CO be informed of the Xenomorph threat and it would be up to them to decide to inform the Marines at their discretion.

[Simo94]

Isnt Almayer operating near UPP borders? we can just say we cant afford to bring nukes because the communists might misunderstand it as a declaration of a full blown nuclear war, like the Cuban missile crisis.

[Sulaboy]

Isnt Almayer operating near UPP borders? we can just say we cant afford to bring nukes because the communists might misunderstand it as a declaration of a full blown nuclear war, like the Cuban missile crisis.

There's only one UPP controlled sector on the rim, it's a station orbiting a gas giant crammed full of conscripts.

[WinterClould]

I think many of you have given good reasons as to why we couldn't or wouldn't use nukes. There is more going on in the universe then just USCM fights benos. There's politics, there's human emotions and human needs.

Think about the value of the planet's we're fighting for. All places with breathable atmospheres which is fucking huge because no one wants to higher a crew of people to live on a brand new rock of questionable value to get its shit together when we already have one right here we can just have some worthless marines fight and die for.
All place these places also got some kind of strategic value to them as well, expect maybe ice? Ice is just rnd ain't it? But big red has minerals out the fucking ass and LV actually has a really good climate for humans to live on. Prison is also a facility with a substantial dollar value attached to it so noblowplz.

Since this is a very Vietnam Era universe moral is also a massive deal. If we just go nuking planets because they have some bugs on them no ones gonna be happy about that. Lads back home might even think we're lying and just nuking CLF. Bad bad press ans we don't need the hippies bitching at us.

Can't forget our cold war with the ruskies, I mean UPP. Yeah. Don't forget about how they're just waiting to fuck our shit up any excuse they can get.

[Cry of Wolves]

I think many of you have given good reasons as to why we couldn't or wouldn't use nukes. There is more going on in the universe then just USCM fights benos. There's politics, there's human emotions and human needs.

Think about the value of the planet's we're fighting for. All places with breathable atmospheres which is fucking huge because no one wants to higher a crew of people to live on a brand new rock of questionable value to get its shit together when we already have one right here we can just have some worthless marines fight and die for.
All place these places also got some kind of strategic value to them as well, expect maybe ice? Ice is just rnd ain't it? But big red has minerals out the fucking ass and LV actually has a really good climate for humans to live on. Prison is also a facility with a substantial dollar value attached to it so noblowplz.

Since this is a very Vietnam Era universe moral is also a massive deal. If we just go nuking planets because they have some bugs on them no ones gonna be happy about that. Lads back home might even think we're lying and just nuking CLF. Bad bad press ans we don't need the hippies bitching at us.

Can't forget our cold war with the ruskies, I mean UPP. Yeah. Don't forget about how they're just waiting to fuck our shit up any excuse they can get.