Update Discussion Thread (September 2018)

[Blade2000Br]

Yeah, just abit.



Ive always thought a crawl when in critical for both side would be a good addition, and yeah add another small level of strategic play for both sides.Didnt there use to be a human crawl anyhow? Might be thinking of another server i played.

It used to have here but got removed.

[BobatNight]

Tackle Change, Bad.
Stat Change, Bad.
Devour change, bad.
Queen death change, bad.
Queen movement change, bad.

Thanks for the kitchen though I guess.

Oh that explosion thing is pretty neat though.

[Dauntasa]

Queen movement change, bad.

whatever else you want to say, the queen movement nerf is 100% the single greatest gameplay quality improvement I have seen in basically any game, ever

[BobatNight]

whatever else you want to say, the queen movement nerf is 100% the single greatest gameplay quality improvement I have seen in basically any game, ever

Oh not the charge, her generally slow movement

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Queen death change, bad.

Queen death change was necessary, because there were games back then, when hive could just have a new queen poop up all 20~ burrowed larva even after a massive push from a marine side that managed to wipe most of the xeno 5 minutes after the last queen's death; because it wasn't that detrimental at all aside from the hivemind loss.

So marines were forced to take on these 20 new xeno, with them already sustaining massive loss from the first push. It was either dragging the game out massively, or turning the game on its head all just because one drone ran to a different corner of the map and evolve+ovi up.

[Grubstank]

Tackle Change, Bad.
Stat Change, Bad.
Devour change, bad.
Queen death change, bad.
Queen movement change, bad

All of these changes rescued the game for me so I don't know what the basis for your opinion is

[Gnorse]

All of these changes rescued the game for me so I don't know what the basis for your opinion is

x e n o m a i n s

[Ttly]

I'm loving the tank removal.
Less points wasted by cargo for autist tank friendly FOBs, no offscreen boiler gib, no getting ran over, and most importantly no carrying shitton of buckshot as C4 alternative.

[Sora9567]

Well, with the tank, the problem with it is that its an anchor in both ways:

On one hand, it's good for locking down a position, so if marines are getting rumbled, it doesn't turn into a rout easily.

But on the other hand, it also keeps both the marines and xenos from pushing because A) Marines would much rather stick with the tank and not get blown to bits by the Tank's weapons, and B) Xenos don't want to get hit by the "Fuck you" LTB/TOW combo.

Hopefully in the future the devs can balance it so it's more fair for both sides, but its removal for the time being isn't that much of a detriment to Marine play.

[CABAL]

Scrap the tank, despite how much I would want to RP Scorpion tank, or Devil's Tongue.. It's only fun for those TC's and nobody else.
Give us COMBAT LOADERS, or Jeep with MG, or something like Reconer from Kane's Wrath. Fast, unarmored vehicle capable of transporting troops. It could even still "unpack" into small FoB with added delay to change into mobile form again.

[WinterClould]

The minigun on the tank wasn't as OP as the LTB right? Why not just remove the canon and do some other small twerks and see what those do before we talk about outright removing the glory that is actually having a functional tank in our 2d spessmen game.

[Build_R_]

I like the game without the tank but explosions are still capable of nearly insta-killing T1, T2 and T3s. Grenadier and RPG spec are really popular right now, if the tank was re-added we'd just see a bunch of LTB+TOW launcher loadouts that would rack up kills really fast.

[RobBrown4PM]

I wouldn't be opposed to a smaller, lighter vehicle. My biggest gripe with the tank is that it has no counter to its ability to run over Xenos and most barriers. There are 2 crusher maybe a round, and usually only a single Queen. Without these castes, it's nigh impossible for the Xenos to stop the tank, and even then it's a huge gamble that will likely result in the death of many Xenos.

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing it be put back in, however I think the Xenos would need a hard counter. Either nerf the Crusher to make its crush de-track the tank, or add in a new caste that can act as a Xeno tank.

[carlarc]

even if xenos have a crusher to stop the tank, its just going to get LTBed when it tries to run away from the flames the tank will 100% have

[Grubstank]

x e n o m a i n s

The funny thing is that I would pretty much consider myself a xeno main at this point - I really prefer playing the underdog faction as it's tiresome to win all the time. Broad reaching xeno nerfs were a great way to raise the general skill ceiling.

I really do feel the tank effects the game the same way as the queen charge/movespeed did though -- when so much of your success is based on the performance of one core role, the game simply becomes less competitive for all other players involved.

I hope the tank stays gone -- for sakes of both the marines and the xenos. I would much rather see it replaced with a couple flimsy humvees, or perhaps the Aliens light APC. It's alright to have powerful roles, so long as they're flimsy (and thus, generally speaking, skill dependent) or non-combat based.

Seeing a couple speedy humvees with tiny passenger capacities rolling around the map could improve game play on a lot of levels; a more hands-on version of the PO with an emphasis on doing medvacs, but not totally defenseless or immune to coordinated flankers.

[Herac]

I really do feel the tank effects the game the same way as the queen charge/movespeed did though -- when so much of your success is based on the performance of one core role, the game simply becomes less competitive for all other players involved.

That is actually very poinegnt and I'm going to keep it in mind for the future, because I think you're spot on.

We focus on the balance between xenos/marines and not within each them. People will always debate exactly how important the queen should be for xenos to win, stuff like that. In terms of the marines, the tank is worth about 1.5 squads, more on low pop, those two TC have more of an impact than anyone else and that does take away from individual sense of achievment.

Even though I do actually like the tank, and I appreciate the effort that went into makeing it a part of the game so I don't want to see that go to waste. I think it does need to be relegated, personally I would love to see the ammo capacity nerfed heavily. I was fine with the LTB insta-gibbing, but the fact that the gunner almost never had to worry about ammo conservation meant that they just gibbed everything instead of thinking "do I want to gib this T1 or save it for a boiler later?". The flamer is just ridiculous, I think it's 140 u of fuel with each shot using 1 u, I haven't run the numbers but I believe it can set fire to more tiles than all the napalm OB's, Banshees, and the pyro spec put together. The only two guns where I don't feel ammo should be a concern, the minigun and the cupola, seem to run out earlier in the round than any others.

whatever else you want to say, the queen movement nerf is 100% the single greatest gameplay quality improvement I have seen in basically any game, ever

Also yeah, I don't ever want to see charge + screech ever again. I still think queen could get her movement speed back though, but that's just me.

[Lolibandit]

After playing a few rounds I can say for certain marine tankiness needs to be scaled back, xenos need to be ugraded from paper to construction paper hides at least and shotguns need a nerf.

[CABAL]

After playing a few rounds I can say for certain marine tankiness needs to be scaled back, xenos need to be ugraded from paper to construction paper hides at least and shotguns need a nerf.

What? Why? What do you want to nerf in the most nerfed gun already, a litteral FF machine becouse of spread, even on slug. Now I can't even use it when I'm not at the front, becouse shotgun with stock and v-grip have a fair chance of shooting where I was not "aiming". How many of FF's I did becouse of that. Not mentioning that xeno directly charging at me have a chance to not be stunned becouse of that. One mistake that I even didn't made and I'm dead.

I would try to explain more, but you seems to be 100% XenoMain. No point.

[Lolibandit]

What? Why? What do you want to nerf in the most nerfed gun already, a litteral FF machine becouse of spread, even on slug. Now I can't even use it when I'm not at the front, becouse shotgun with stock and v-grip have a fair chance of shooting where I was not "aiming". How many of FF's I did becouse of that. Not mentioning that xeno directly charging at me have a chance to not be stunned becouse of that. One mistake that I even didn't made and I'm dead.

I would try to explain more, but you seems to be 100% XenoMain. No point.

Well anyone who can't see the horrid state of balance currently must be a 100% marine main, so no point in explaining it to your simple mind then too eh?

[DriedMilk]

gib tank

thank

[Anoonki]

After playing a few rounds I can say for certain marine tankiness needs to be scaled back

Well anyone who can't see the horrid state of balance currently must be a 100% marine main, so no point in explaining it to your simple mind then too eh?

If you think marines are tanky, and that's the issue, you should probably just step up your game. ngl

[Gnorse]

Yeah no please don't touch shotguns or marine armor.
Shotguns are high risk high reward. leave them at that.
If you think marines can tank too much damage then uh ... are we playing two different games ? literally all castes except for runners can kill a human in 3 to 10 slashes.

[Dauntasa]

If you think marines can tank too much damage then uh ... are we playing two different games ? literally all castes except for runners can kill a human in 3 to 10 slashes.

at some point the alien meta became attacking hands and feet, and they are now confused as to why biting someone's hand takes a long time to kill them

[Blade2000Br]

Ok lets not start acting all mighty and say the other side is bad/good and create unnecessary flame war.

Lets keep civil here and discuss the updates. That goes for you, Kesserline, and you Loli.

[Simo94]

I dont think skill has anything to do with the current state of balance, it was simply a series of buffs for marines (M41A massive buffs, SMG and pistols buffs, Explosion rework/massive buff, OB/CAS rework, B18 ammo increase, Sentry fixes and buffs, indirect defibb buff cuz of xeno corpse dragging change) coupled with a series of nerfs for xenos (stat rework/reduction, tackle massive nerf, queen dying larva loss, no dragging corpses, marine devouring nerfs, nesting changes, small nerfs here and there for bite/tail stab and warrior lunge).

I think the amount of skill among both sides is more or less consistent with time, its updates that cause these changes and also causes skilled players to desert a side/role sometimes, IMO.