A Policy Suggestion, and thoughts

[Butterrobber202]

So I was thinking about this last night as I played AvP,

What if we abolished the First Contact rule on a select few maps?

In the game AvP, Marines have had previous encounters with xenos, and had a vauge but general idea on how they operated. They were aware of their dislike of fire, how facehuggers worked and knew the Queen was the central point of the hive.

But besides that they didn't know much else, and you know what's included in that not much else? Predators. Predators still remained unknown to the marines.

So I wanted to propose this on the fourms, instead of the Gitlab because it doesn't have much to do with the Devs, and I asked a staff member where to post it.

So, for maps where the Marines have a disadvantage, e.g. Ice and Prison station, the first Contact rule would be nulled for them. LV and Solaris ridge would still have to abide by the First Contact RP Rule.

Thoughts, thonks, and smart remarks?

[Solarmare]

I want to eventually have something like this personally, too many problems with it currently to actually put into practice now. Rounds would devolve to rush xenos every round because they're weakest and that would go rather stale quickly.

[Dauntasa]

Rounds would devolve to rush xenos every round because they're weakest and that would go rather stale quickly.

A few test rounds have been run and from what I can tell there is actually no indication that it leads to more rushing.

[Solarmare]

Which were all specific admin events, a handful aren't a good indication for what the overall situation would be. Other things like random human antagonists are also needed so the inevitable common metagaming that occurs is at a minimum. Like lunging for a flamer or slugs every single round of infections and C4ing zombie corpses that haven't even risen yet.

[Dauntasa]

I think they showed the current situation pretty clearly. Everyone already plays the game as though there was no first contact rule, they simply go through the little song and dance of pretending that they don't. Changing the rule has no impact on gameplay because the gameplay ramifications of it are entirely ignored already. The marines know the hive locations, the xenos know pretty much exactly when and where the marines will show up, and everyone already takes these into account when playing the game. They don't admit it because it's against the rules, but as long as they don't come out and say it it's essentially unenforceable, so everyone does it anyway.

[Grubstank]

The overwhelming majority of first-contact related rules are quietly ignored anyways -- I think the only real way this would change the game is on Prison, where engineers can weld the vents from the get-go.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

IMO most folks seems to just follow the first contact rule just for the sake of avoiding punishment, it's not strictly SAID, but it feels as though almost noone actually acknowledges the fact that this is their first time fighting xenos.

Weeds are not declared on first sighting, just cut. Xenos are shot without a second delay, corpses are ignored, etc. etc.

The game has far too much repetition for this rule to fly without the vast majority of people silently ignoring it or simply going through the motions. I agree stuff like human antagonists such as the CLF would be a great way to break the monotony and make it actually unpredictable, but until then people are going to be spamming buckshot shotguns, RDS and gyros until the cows come home.

If it ever becomes possible to automate rounds including human antags or zombies, then we may have a resolution to the metagaming issue, but until then we don't.

[Dolth]

I think LV fog lock has no more use since the map is big af already.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

The faster paced the format becomes, the more people will play to win.

[spookydonut]

The faster paced the format becomes, the more people will play to win.

I think that's the biggest issue

[Bancrose]

I am an animal and cant help myself. I like checking crashed ship or Eta/Lamda first.

Its so linear on LV that the only place to go is straight North into the caves. I always thought the rules were in place so Xenos aint just sitting there on LZ1 for me going "Hello idiots, didn't notice you there."

And so we don't be sitting there at the Hive in the North Caves at 12:30 going "Hey man these are some real nice place ya got here."

[WinterClould]

Nobody follows the spirit of the rule as is. Any time you try no one gives a shit. The meta game is already there it's just done quietly. The rush and ticking clock the marines are faced with is already there and everyone knows it.

Players who are going to be just focused on just winning are already focused on that. It's how other players interact with them and how much they let people interact with them that changes them to be less focused on winning.

Changing this policy for a trial would let us get some actual numbers and not hypotheticals, but I've got a strong feeling that letting marines know what they knew in AvP would just be an improvement for the game.

After all, we're marines not Private Eyes. If we wanted a murder mystery or some kinda who done it with the xenos we wouldn't have made a game with a core focus on 90% of the players playing low RP Rooty Tooty right?

Give the marines a chance to act like marines and we might see some great things. They won't know everything about the xenos so they'll still have to do some investigating, but at least now it won't be "Hurr durr ima weed wack this black stuff on the ground while we run in circles around the colony till command tells us to suicide charge the hive"
Maybe with the change it'll be. "Hurrdy Durrdy we know the benos like warm places so check the powerplant, and ughhhhh weed wack stuff too please.... OH no we found them all and we are all dying everyone charge the caves while holding the important places plz"

Ya this won't be an absolutely earth shatteringly big change. But it would make the not so sneaky meta marines do not meta anymore and allow them to actually RP how they want. The search for survivors will still be a thing so that would be a thing to look into still. The hive would still need to be "found" so scouting is still a thing. It's just no more "Red doggo spotted, so I send it?" Instead all you'll hear is the blap from the gun blast.

[Dolth]

I mean. Who plays to loose? Clearly?

Tell me this isn't a TDM with a medRP disguise.

[Blade2000Br]

I disagree with the last statement, Winter. In the few rounds where the first contact rule was waived, I remember marines literally rushing towards the hives. No delay at all, not even a FOB. Just landed and eun towards where the Hive would possibly be.

I didn't see much RP either, marines just rushed with no mercy towards the benos hives.

[Dolth]

I disagree with the last statement, Winter. In the few rounds where the first contact rule was waived, I remember marines literally rushing towards the hives. No delay at all, not even a FOB. Just landed and eun towards where the Hive would possibly be.

I didn't see much RP either, marines just rushed with no mercy towards the benos hives.

What the bully just said is 100% accurate.

Beside you forgot to bring the baldies in your equation.
The real baldies, barely not talking, shooting you dead for attachments etc and there are A LOT OF THEM.

[WinterClould]

Oh how I failed to remember how staff don't do anything about meta rushing until the xenos complain about it enough times for the devs to impliment some bullshit feature no one will enjoy having to play around.
Staff might sometimes need to step in and bitch slap some fuckers sometimes ya know? If squads mindlessly rush the hive then clearly something wrong there and is being meta'd right? If people aren't talking and are just gliding by on meta knowledge there's clearly an issue, you guys can do something about that right?

Guess I also forgot how SL's never act like actual military leaders and instead just act like the markers for the "follow the arrow" minigame you play when you first drop to the planet. Baldies will follow their mama bear SLs if they aren't braindead. If we did some more encouraging (read:beat the shit out of people until they do as we say) to get people to actually RP like they're actually in the military and not just dressing up to go airsofting with the lads, then maybe we'll be able to eventually give the players more in game knowledge.

Jeez maybe if people weren't shit this wouldnt be shit. Game is just TDM because so few people care to even try and make it medRP.
Apply hurt stick till players act correctly, baldies be damned.
I've solved the puzzle.

[Blade2000Br]

Oh how I failed to remember how staff don't do anything about meta rushing until the xenos complain about it enough times for the devs to impliment some bullshit feature no one will enjoy having to play around.
Staff might sometimes need to step in and bitch slap some fuckers sometimes ya know? If squads mindlessly rush the hive then clearly something wrong there and is being meta'd right? If people aren't talking and are just gliding by on meta knowledge there's clearly an issue, you guys can do something about that right?

Guess I also forgot how SL's never act like actual military leaders and instead just act like the markers for the "follow the arrow" minigame you play when you first drop to the planet. Baldies will follow their mama bear SLs if they aren't braindead. If we did some more encouraging (read:beat the shit out of people until they do as we say) to get people to actually RP like they're actually in the military and not just dressing up to go airsofting with the lads, then maybe we'll be able to eventually give the players more in game knowledge.

Jeez maybe if people weren't shit this wouldnt be shit. Game is just TDM because so few people care to even try and make it medRP.
Apply hurt stick till players act correctly, baldies be damned.
I've solved the puzzle.

Metarushing is a bit more complicated to deal with. Some had their ways of doing it, some would spawn 15 ancient T3s and others would punish the CO for endorssing it, but its a delicated thing that unless its 100% without a doubt done, we can't do much.

I love to bitch slap as much as the next guy, Dolth knows it, but theres way too many variables to just jump in and use the sexy banhammer.

[RobBrown4PM]

LV would be a death sentence for the Xenos should the fog be removed.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Not when their early game isn't so shit anymore, and they can afford to make early and aggressive fights.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

My personal opinion:

If you as a xeno are stupid enough to lead an entire platoon back to your hive, and your queen fails to organize a defense regardless of what the round time is, that should be on the xenos and not the marines.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

My personal opinion:

If you as a xeno are stupid enough to lead an entire platoon back to your hive, and your queen fails to organize a defense regardless of what the round time is, that should be on the xenos and not the marines.

>when a single stupid runner leads the entire platoon to your hive and wipes your hive out and you can't even delete the runner as queen for punishment

[Dolth]

LV would be a death sentence for the Xenos should the fog be removed.

Queeno can just dig in deepest cave and fight off ik early caves just like the usual.

Deployment at 25, just like other map.

[Vampmare]

The way the first contact rule works currently is that it forces a little rp into the lower ranks.

I honestly prefer it staying, but that is because I enjoy the RP that the alien universe can offer and I don't really care about winning. Removing the rule is going to lead to quicker games because they don't have to wait for the IC knowledge of xenos and what not.

[CABAL]

What about giving knowlege about xenos, but not giving knowledge that xenos are the cause of the colony going dark?

[Heckenshutze]

The faster paced the format becomes, the more people will play to win.

I don’t see what’s wrong here.

You can’t force players to succumb in a specific play style specially when there are two sides who sole purpose is to kill each other...