Let's tone it down with the warcrimes, ok?

[ThePiachu]

So, after today's UPP round a few people had some issues with how the conflict was handled. Heck, we even made Mortimer shed a synthetic tear. So, could we tone it down with the warcrimes?

By that, I mostly mean a few things:
- Take prisoners, interact with them, try to get something out of them
- Don't shoot the civies
- Treat wounded on both side of the conflict

It's not fun to go into a HvH round and see some UPP just unga rush medbay to kill all of the doctors and drag their bodies away ( https://youtu.be/N7BJRfxwtww?t=1266 ). That's not really that fun. Heck, being a medbay doctor during a long HvH round is personally the highlight for me - the wounded you get are much more numerous and demanding than HvX.

So, could we please try following some sort of civilised rules of engagement to make the rounds a bit more interesting viewtopic.php?f=64&t=17730&p=205826#p205848 ?

[z a n e b o t]

no sorry

[BluntForce420]

krump em goldman

[CABAL]

Since there is no "Surrender" mechanic, you can't do much. All you can expect is a PB to the face. Only paincrit gives opportunity to capture.

[Simo94]

No, you cant interact or talk with UPP, marines dont speak russian and UPP dont speak english, also that has the potential to create very bad situations for marine players like we had in the past, like a marine shooting another marine for not hugging/shooting a UPP, fuck that, they are terrorists to you, some of the marines lost friends and family members to them, and the same for the opposite side.

[TheDonkified]

i enjoy killing unarmed civilians and then permakilling them for no good reason thanks

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

I enjoy releasing my stress on whoever the poor fuck at the end of my barrel is, thanks.

[solidfury7]

Send MPs down to supervise the marines.

Execute warcrime commiters

Reward informants

Boom

[Mann handle]

Sent MTs down to assist marines.
Have them build chambers.
Herd UPP into said chambers.
Release Phoron / research's magic mixtures.

Nothing better than dead commie scum.


On a more serious note. How exactly would the round end if both sides spent hours RP'ing court room battles over who did what war crime and when?

[ThePiachu]

No, you cant interact or talk with UPP, marines dont speak russian and UPP dont speak english, also that has the potential to create very bad situations for marine players like we had in the past, like a marine shooting another marine for not hugging/shooting a UPP, fuck that, they are terrorists to you, some of the marines lost friends and family members to them, and the same for the opposite side.

UPP do speak english, just that last round everyone insisted on speaking russian over comms so you couldn't understand them.

[Vispain]

Send MPs down to supervise the marines.

Execute warcrime commiters

Reward informants

Boom

#respect

Seriously though, I support taking prisoners but often one of the major issues I find is MPS DONT KNOW HOW TO HOLD PRISONERS ONCE CAPTURED.
It should be a given you are to hold POWs indefinetely rather then for 10-30-40-50 or whatever you put minutes upon which you release.
I mean jesus christ...it's not catch and release... it's catch and contain.

In short. Maybe a mechanic or more incentive to allow surrenders should occur. For example, either a surrender mechanic (doubt it's usefulness though and likely to be a meme) or (more useful perhaps) an addition to Marine Law regarding POWs and the USCM's mission brief on handling POWs should be made. It'd clear up confusion on where POWs are legally as well as give some more definite guidelines on how to handle them...especially for warships with limited POW carrying capacity.

Personally, if I had to write it a operation briefing on how to handle CLF and possible UPP conflict... (especially in the sector the USS Almayer patrols which is a seditious, fringe sector)… I'd write it up along the following guidelines:


POW Rights (read UPP)
- Food: somewhat unimportant but RP wise...sure.
- Medical Aid: rather important realistically and RP wise.
- Safety: If you take a POW, they should be held in a secure spot and NOT be executed for their status as a POW. How do I do this? Throw them in the brig after searching them and hold them indefinitely.
- Executions? No. They are a POW and it's not permitted, UNLESS they attempt to escape AND/OR assault a member of the USCM in their attempt they are not to be executed

Terrorists/Pirates Rights (read CLF, hostile freelancers)
- Terrorists have no rights and can be executed as traitors to the United Americas and terrorists.
- Executions are permitted under military law.

Regarding UPP (which lore-wise is both an actual nation comparable to Soviet Russia and is in a cold war and not in actual war with the United Americas) should generally be treated as POWs with limited rights should conflict break out... (read: Event). Mainly, the incapacitated and surrendering should be taken prisoner and held as POWs until they can be dropped off at dedicated facilities, given to dedicated POW holding units, or given away in prisoner exchanges.

Regarding hostile PMCs/CLs:
- These people's rights really fall in the lines of Terrorists or POWs...it really falls in whatever the Commander/HC wants imo. In short, I'd expect them to generally be seen as having the rights of a terrorist.

As far as lore goes, it's somewhat important to distinguish terrorists, pirates and traitors from people who actually are part of a space-faring empire with a large military and are in a cold war with your own nation...
Any colonial incident could result in the entire sector becoming a battle ground or worse...


Sorry for venting. This is and has been a interesting issue with levels of warcrimes in events. Usually incentives from admins/the Commander or express orders lower the warcrimes while inaction or express orders to kill everyone increase warcrimes.

[Garrison]

#respect & -snip-

Totally agree there, to reiterate with my own opinions:

- Expansive/Political Factions such as the UPP or Corporate Mercenaries should preferably try to be taken alive. (And vice versa for the opposing side when engaging Marines)

-Terrorist groups such as the CLF should be regarded as criminals and shot on sight unless they pose a minimal threat or are offering surrender/negotiation. The CLF however, due to their loosely organized nature, should have more freedom in how they choose to approach an engagement with the USCM. After all, the average CLF rebel can range anywhere from a blood thirsty fanatic, a loyal trooper, or a trained civilian that may or may not want to fight.

Another thing to bear in mind is that prisoners act as good political leverage & RP opportunities, and killing with complete disregard of hostility or ability to fight back can lead to political consequences in the future.

[DriedMilk]

hahahhahahahahahahahah








no

[Brotemis]

I don't know what's worse. People unironically saying they will commit war crimes and low rp memery just to get some kills.

Or the people who honestly believe that there should be no rules when it comes to HvH.

An example that comes to mind is when a CLF ert responded after xenos invaded. Some had attacked both marines and xenos, but I happened upon one in the crashed dropship. I don't know if we were too wounded to take shots at each other but we didn't immediately fire upon each other. After some talking it was agreed there were larger issues at hand than human geopolitics. This CLF trusted me to not stab them in the back and I trusted them to do the same.

It was met with questions by other marines, but anyone who was around noticed that the CLF wasn't immediately firing on them. I made sure they got medical treatment in cargo and what I got in return was someone willing to work with me and even protect me to the same degree or even more than another marine normally would.
The last xeno died as I was dragging him back to cargo to be treated. In a way, it was almost like black ops, treating the enemy of my enemy as my friend. WhIle xenos may also be the enemy of my enemy, I would rather rub elbows with a fellow human than a xeno.

[manezinho]

Good luck.

[Dorkkeli]

I always try to take captures. Worst part is when ungas shoot cuffed, unarmed prisoners being dragged

[Novus Luna]

No, you cant interact or talk with UPP, marines dont speak russian and UPP dont speak english, also that has the potential to create very bad situations for marine players like we had in the past, like a marine shooting another marine for not hugging/shooting a UPP, fuck that, they are terrorists to you, some of the marines lost friends and family members to them, and the same for the opposite side.

Then that marine can be dealt with by admins. Seriously, this thread is just asking to not fucking genocide and let people actually play in the round, and people are acting like it's a hard thing to ask for.

Since there is no "Surrender" mechanic, you can't do much. All you can expect is a PB to the face. Only paincrit gives opportunity to capture.

Roleplay. The word you're looking for, the mechanic you're looking for, is roleplay. You don't need to have the same language to understand someone kneeling down with their hands behind their head.

[oprayx73]

There was an HvH round where i played as B18/Grenadier spec and had a white phosphorous grenade, i couldn't load it into my gun but i DID use it on the CLF.

[CABAL]

Roleplay. The word you're looking for, the mechanic you're looking for, is roleplay. You don't need to have the same language to understand someone kneeling down with their hands behind their head.

Sure, but what certainty I have that somebody who did *me won't grab sawn-off to PB when I will come closer? There should be some Icon that you raise your hands and you have to drop them down to use an item. Something like self inflicted soft cuffs that you can break in one and a half second.

[simonset55]

God i have such a boner for decapitating CLF

[Bancrose]

Do you ever just Battlefield Execute every fucking Commie you find? Its honestly invigorating.

Why spare any UPP when I constantly find them trying to husk bodies and decap corpses, Why bother trying to talk to the CLF if all they scream is some fucking Vietcong bullshit like "Go home GI". I rarely find anyone who doesn't just shoot back most of the time. I mean it is good roleplay when your CO and get prisoners but if its a Jerk event, I'm committing Warcrimes.

I'll pass buddy, thanks for trying.

[liltiptop]

PROTIP: You can't get caught committing warcrimes if there's no one alive to catch you.

[RedsPro]

:OK: :COOL:
Real talk whats the point of playing if i cant do war crimes?
When i play UPP i WANT to torch the marine Medbay. Napalm sticks to kids.

[Cry of Wolves]

Why roleplay when i can get sum killz.

Essentially is the response. Expected from grunts, disappointing from Commanders. So much for the "High Roleplay" entrusted with the whitelisters.

[Bancrose]

Why roleplay when i can get sum killz.

Essentially is the response. Expected from grunts, disappointing from Commanders. So much for the "High Roleplay" entrusted with the whitelisters.

I am not sure if this is bait but I'll bite.

This Character was built on War Crimes, To me, it is roleplay to kill enemy combatants, to execute the men that have decided to wage open war against me. You may not see it that way but Roleplay is a loose term that is subjective to each and everyone of us.