Let's talk about Ice Colony

[Dolth]

As I said NOD, I rarely remember LZ2 nearbies being fully weeded and stickied and you get no cold damage/slow underground anymore btw. And xeno can be killed easily especially in 4x wide hallways, marines just have to be smart about it.

I sincerely think underground advantages marines more than xeno. Even if yes, a ravager in maints can destroy them slowly one by one.

[kastion]

That's becouse LZ2 is closed for xenos. But hallways leading to LZ2 are always covered in sticky and resin walls. The map is gigantic enough especially leading xenos to delay by retreating from those hallways and waiting for marine's push. They rarely attack directly, only when they see that only one/two squads were deployed. Otherwise it's waiting for marines to spread across 4x4 hallways and just spitting and slashing and gassing behind marines to cut them from the rest.

Yes... LZ2 is great for defence, you can defend there for years. Wait... How to win with xenos by "attrition"? They have limited healing supplies? They have limited ammo? They have perma injuries? They lose T3's and never get them back? They are starting to get hungry? They are vulnerable to ICE temperature? The answer is no. You have to kill fast and tanky beings that can regenerate wounds by taking a quick nap.

This gives me an idea: What about xenos would get their maximum amount of health reduced when they receive damage? Rav got his health below 50%? Now he can heal only to 80% of his original health. To regain lost "maximum cap" they would have to go back to the hive and stay there a while near Ovied Queen. Slap them even faster health regenaration and there you have it. Xenos lose something that they can't easly replace.

Ok you can make xenos lose max health when marines getting IB, broken bones, broken organs, brain damage, and whatever else has real effects instead of slap a splint and take some pills then fight for 5 more minutes until you actually have to go up for 2 minutes of surgery then come right back down. Marines unga because they have no fear of death whatsoever.

[Dolth]

Well so does xeno. They have even less to loose than marines who actually can loose their privilege of playing the round while xeno heals faster and can rejoin and have access to anything.

BUT.

I am still in favour of leaving stuff like they are now.
Xeno are meant to be stronger and honestly all it takes to kill a xeno is just a pair of brain.

Ravager in a 2x wide large hallway.
3 BC AP shots + 1 PB buck no BC = crit up to elder.
6 BC AP shots = crit up to young/prob mature
9 regular shots = crit up to young/prob mature
2 PB buck no BC = crit on young.

Xeno have nerfed since QF EB nerf, accordingly.
I personally think marines are currently stronger but fucking dumb.

[kastion]

Well so does xeno. They have even less to loose than marines who actually can loose their privilege of playing the round while xeno heals faster and can rejoin and have access to anything.

BUT.

I am still in favour of leaving stuff like they are now.
Xeno are meant to be stronger and honestly all it takes to kill a xeno is just a pair of brain.

Ravager in a 2x wide large hallway.
3 BC AP shots + 1 PB buck no BC = crit up to elder.
6 BC AP shots = crit up to young/prob mature
9 regular shots = crit up to young/prob mature
2 PB buck no BC = crit on young.

Xeno have nerfed since QF EB nerf, accordingly.
I personally think marines are currently stronger but fucking dumb.

Xenos shouldn't have a fear of death for RP reason but I get your point. The thing is dying as a tier 3 and coming back as a young t1 is not much better than dying permantly as a marine. Ya you get to play the game but you are useless for 20 minutes and then only moderately good after that.

[Dolth]

Better be slightly helpful than not at all.
Also even a young runner/sentinel be a threat.
And from elder they are both stronk.

[CABAL]

Xenos shouldn't have a fear of death for RP reason but I get your point. The thing is dying as a tier 3 and coming back as a young t1 is not much better than dying permantly as a marine. Ya you get to play the game but you are useless for 20 minutes and then only moderately good after that.

I would really want to be able to come back like this to marines. I remember that I suggested somewhere something like drones/borgs for marines that ghosts can take control. Such drone/borg should be weak, but even as a slow borg with pistol I could have fun and RP. ERT's are too RNG to count (First dropship have to be hijacked, then it have to not hit CiC, then CO have to send distress, then you have to be chosen, then you have to be friendly to marines).

Reducing max xeno health is equal to IB/Fractures etc. Marine and xeno can still fight, but marine requires less slashes and xeno requires less bullets. The only diffrence is that xenos are not slowed down and they will survive without pills. They also wouldn't have to wait for Medevac, or dropship, no waiting for surgeon, just return to Queen in ovi, wait for a while and they are as good as new. Faster healing of "normal" health would balance it out.

That minor change would bring major meta change. Defending some location as marine would gain sense, every bullet that hit xeno would have meaning. You can even add new caste/ability to heal "max cap HP" like drones share plasma.

[kastion]

I would really want to be able to come back like this to marines. I remember that I suggested somewhere something like drones/borgs for marines that ghosts can take control. Such drone/borg should be weak, but even as a slow borg with pistol I could have fun and RP. ERT's are too RNG to count (First dropship have to be hijacked, then it have to not hit CiC, then CO have to send distress, then you have to be chosen, then you have to be friendly to marines).

Reducing max xeno health is equal to IB/Fractures etc. Marine and xeno can still fight, but marine requires less slashes and xeno requires less bullets. The only diffrence is that xenos are not slowed down and they will survive without pills. They also wouldn't have to wait for Medevac, or dropship, no waiting for surgeon, just return to Queen in ovi, wait for a while and they are as good as new. Faster healing of "normal" health would balance it out.

That minor change would bring major meta change. Defending some location as marine would gain sense, every bullet that hit xeno would have meaning. You can even add new caste/ability to heal "max cap HP" like drones share plasma.

Xenos have trouble holding front lines already if you make them retreat to the queen to heal max hp then marines would just over run xenos constantly. You also aren't factoring in that PB buckshot instantly crits lots of xenos so if you remove any max health it becomes instantly killing lots of xenos.

[CABAL]

Xenos have trouble holding front lines already if you make them retreat to the queen to heal max hp then marines would just over run xenos constantly. You also aren't factoring in that PB buckshot instantly crits lots of xenos so if you remove any max health it becomes instantly killing lots of xenos.

Then max out max health for xenos, but reduce, or leave healing rate as it is. It's a rough idea, unpolished diamond etc. Shape it, bend it like bender.
Why xeno that lacks 100% HP goes "head on" for marines alone? Why not ambush them? One xeno > one marine. But two marines > one T1/T2(young/mature) xeno. Equal skill on both sides.
Even with pulse rifle on standard bullets, or M39 most xenos will be critted. Burst when xeno is charging, burst PB and burst when it's escaping and xeno bites the dust.

Xenos are not designed in concept to hold front lines (and they don't have to). I also used this comparison before: Marines are like spear: Sharp tip, hard hitting in one place. Their defence is like thick, but small shield, designed to counter other "spears". Xenos are like daggers and their defence is like wide, but slim shield.
In the grand scale: You have to work around enemy defence and offensive.
Each squad is like small spear, every xeno is like one dagger.

I think it's great comparison becouse with this "mindset" you can win. Every xeno besides boiler is faster than healthy marine in armor and maps are big = No need to hold a line. It's even better to let marines "behind your lines" and then cut them from resources. Look at LV and Hydro. Nearly every round ends in hydro road being overrun by xenos if it wasn't protected. Every round that xenos menaged to take and defend road ends with marine's evac. Why xenos go around Hydro instead of only storming front?
Why marines are not going far right/left side to cut xenos? Becouse it's impossible to trap xenos in one place? Becouse marines lack means to attack "around" just as spear?

[kastion]

Then max out max health for xenos, but reduce, or leave healing rate as it is. It's a rough idea, unpolished diamond etc. Shape it, bend it like bender.
Why xeno that lacks 100% HP goes "head on" for marines alone? Why not ambush them? One xeno > one marine. But two marines > one T1/T2(young/mature) xeno. Equal skill on both sides.
Even with pulse rifle on standard bullets, or M39 most xenos will be critted. Burst when xeno is charging, burst PB and burst when it's escaping and xeno bites the dust.

Xenos are not designed in concept to hold front lines (and they don't have to). I also used this comparison before: Marines are like spear: Sharp tip, hard hitting in one place. Their defence is like thick, but small shield, designed to counter other "spears". Xenos are like daggers and their defence is like wide, but slim shield.
In the grand scale: You have to work around enemy defence and offensive.
Each squad is like small spear, every xeno is like one dagger.

I think it's great comparison becouse with this "mindset" you can win. Every xeno besides boiler is faster than healthy marine in armor and maps are big = No need to hold a line. It's even better to let marines "behind your lines" and then cut them from resources. Look at LV and Hydro. Nearly every round ends in hydro road being overrun by xenos if it wasn't protected. Every round that xenos menaged to take and defend road ends with marine's evac. Why xenos go around Hydro instead of only storming front?
Why marines are not going far right/left side to cut xenos? Becouse it's impossible to trap xenos in one place? Becouse marines lack means to attack "around" just as spear?

Ya running around and attacking at different angles is easy for most xenos, but the problem is the queen has to sit in 1 spot and eggs and captured marines get put in that spot too. So if you don't form a front line to stop marines they will get to the nest and kill all the eggs and make capturing impossible. Then the queen has to run around yakity saksing because she cant sit anywhere and ovi so no one evolves and no more eggs are formed.

[CABAL]

Ya running around and attacking at different angles is easy for most xenos, but the problem is the queen has to sit in 1 spot and eggs and captured marines get put in that spot too. So if you don't form a front line to stop marines they will get to the nest and kill all the eggs and make capturing impossible. Then the queen has to run around yakity saksing because she cant sit anywhere and ovi so no one evolves and no more eggs are formed.

The solution is... *Drums*... Fake hives! And carring only few hosts! Most of the marines captured just ghosts, leaving braindead shell and you can tell when they did that: "This creature seems unresponsive". You can relocate host like that without any danger and three marines will give alteast 6 larvaes most of the time. I'm not implying that xenos should not try to defend at all, but they should bait marines into far places. It's a long way from containers to LZ1. With lurkers, sentinels and runners walking around it's nearly impossible to transport wounded marines without medevac. You have to form "gangs" from healthy marines to defend retreating and newcomers which leaves less guns on the frontline. Yet I've never seen such gangs. I think that I should enable "Queen" ON to try those tactics. I'm unrobust as xeno, but screech and cowardness is enough to be decent Queen if she stays ovied when its possible. Few orders and if other xenos won't be as bad as I am in combat, then I would bring 75%-25% without any balance changes. If xenos don't listen: "Ahelp". I will test it out this weekend.

[Dolth]

People are not smart nor organize enough to play properly according this and beside xeno are squishy enough already. Marines are meant to be stronger if using their weaponery and brain accordingly which is NOT the case which is WHY they sometimes loose.

Also shooting from the FOB is retarded unless you kill in a burst of second

[KingKire]

What is up with ice colonies ladders? Are they bugged into the wrong locations? Clicking on dorms ladder brings you 250 tiles south of dorms.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

I hope the Christmas event this year is 24/7 Ice Colony for the whole week.

[kastion]

What is up with ice colonies ladders? Are they bugged into the wrong locations? Clicking on dorms ladder brings you 250 tiles south of dorms.

Ice ladders are busted. I have played this game off and on for 3 years as a xeno main and I still don't know where all the ladders go. If you think the ladders are bad though try the premade tunnels. I have no idea where they are or where they go.

[simonset55]

Ice colony aboveground and underground are placed on the same Z-level, so the SL tracker will inevitably lead you to a wall if the SL is underground and you're aboveground. If you're a little west of excavation you can also hear fighting at LZ2 which is funny. This is why ladders bring you 200+ tiles away.

[Chemical]

Ice is by far the worst map in my opinion, and Xeno's pretty much always win. With other maps I always feel like things can go either way, but when I see that it's Ice Colony I just groan. If it was simply a really hard map to win, it would be different, but in the couple dozen times I've played Ice I don't think we've ever won once. I know these maps take forever to make and someone really worked hard to do what they did, I still think Ice Colony needs some work.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

NiGhTmARe WilL fiX It GuYS

[CABAL]

How I miss the days of marines losing almost every round and where the very occasional win felt well earned and to be talked about

Play survivor, but stay underground. Not all of us are masochists.

[spookydonut]

NiGhTmARe WilL fiX It GuYS

Nothing can save current ice.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Nothing can save current ice.

Well... one thing will.

Alot of carbon emissions.

Waterworld coming soon(tm)