The problem with roleplaying in Colonial Marines

[spookydonut]

SO's spawn with hollowpoints. If snowflakes in delta start acting a foul on your ass when you get elected for police duty, well, you know what you should do.


But like for real. When people are acting like tards interfering with arrests and starting bullshit mutinies just ahelp or player report. If you get ic issued or ignored just move to the player report. Staff might do something if you shove it in their faces enough. Like bancrose said, it don't take but a few minutes and could be exactly what's needed to get some changes made.

Players shouldnt have to be the ones trying to enforce the rules.

[WinterClould]

Players shouldnt have to be the ones trying to enforce the rules.

They shouldn't have to be, but this is the situation we find ourselves in. If the mods aren't looking for people causing trouble then we have to report the trouble to them. We have to ahelp cuz they can't be everywhere all the time. We have to make player reports because staff who can or would punish something aren't always around.

And if all else fails and there ever reaches a point where staff do nothing but sit on their hands, we'd have to take matters into our own hands with some frontier justice. Because at that point what's the risk?

But we ain't that far gone. If Bancrose means what he says, and I trust the man very much, then we should see staff stepping up gradually. Hopefully the next generation proves themselves willing to punish the bullshit that many vets might just see as "just the way things are". Maybe we'll see some old staff see things for what they are and feel inspired to step back up to the plate and knock heads once again.

Or maybe I'm full of shit and just talking shit on the forums for a server I haven't logged into for over a month babbyyyyyyyyyy. Man it sucks dick not having a functional desktop and real world life shit going on taking my free time away. I'd really like to be actually in game working to be part of the solution to all this but I only got time to shitpost not play.



Replying to some others, quoting multi people on forums is annoying to do so:

Murray you gay as fuck with that deltard ganging up on the MPs when people commit crimes, even accidental crimes, smhsmhsmh.

Dolth, we gotta do stupid bullshit to not get stuck in the mud of the meta. Doing the same thing all the time because we "think" it's the only way is super lame and what a ton of people get trapped into thinking. We can't think lime that. Even if something don't look good on paper like a meme FOB location or a strat you don't believe in, player actions like people taking their own initative, like making minor changes to HQ's plan and shit can make the dream work baby.


In other news you all smell bad and I still don't have a girlfriend even though I smell fucking great. Feels bad man.

[Avalanchee]

They shouldn't have to be, but this is the situation we find
Murray you gay as fuck with that deltard ganging up on the MPs when people commit crimes, even accidental crimes, smhsmhsmh.

In other news you all smell bad and I still don't have a girlfriend even though I smell fucking great. Feels bad man.

Yeah I think I fucking know why

[Enigmachine]

And finally Enigmachine. The problem doesn't really come from a couple of marines who want to commit sedition, It comes from when whole squads mutiny for dumb shit. The way the current mutiny rule goes is that only people with the access to Rule 0 can deny them. Otherwise all you need is a reason and 5 names to ahelp with. Thats fine if they want to mutiny. They have to go through chokepoints and die by the Commander/CIC/MP's and or risk retribution from High Command should they find the reason to for a mutiny to be inadequate.

Indeed, that was my point; all it took for the whole of Charlie to become seditious was for 2 of them to get busted on majors. I'm honestly uncertain how it didn't escalate; I think it had to do with the fact that I didn't back down from discussing it over Command Comms which resulted in everyone else in the CIC scolding them.

I don't get that mindset at all. If someone's fucking up royally, why would you want them watching your back? Why would you stand up for that if they're called out? They oughtta be called out, weeded out and straightened out before they really wreck something. I don't put up with other MP's if they fuck something up, and I really don't get it tolerating it as a frontliner.

And shitters will straight up try to use a Spec or SL slot like its immunity. There is no excuse to do that or go along with it as their squadmate besides meta knowledge that they're powerful roles and you want to max your chances to win by letting them do whatever they want.

Honestly, if someone wants to play TDM just pony up for one on Steam and play that. Go NRP it up there. The combat here isn't even that great, nor is the balance. I don't hold that against devs as I disbelieve that that's essential to the experience of the game, but every round I see people talk it up like it's the soul of the it. I came into this game thinking that it wasn't the type you played to win. Was I wrong?

[CABAL]

Honestly, if someone wants to play TDM just pony up for one on Steam and play that. Go NRP it up there. The combat here isn't even that great, nor is the balance. I don't hold that against devs as I disbelieve that that's essential to the experience of the game, but every round I see people talk it up like it's the soul of the it. I came into this game thinking that it wasn't the type you played to win. Was I wrong?

SS13 is a simulation of "life". In what real scenario you would want to die (Edgy jokes aside)? In what scenario you would want to fight OP aliens? Never. CM is not classic SS13 either. Where as civ on "normal" station you can't really win, besides surviving the round.

But SS13 give us not only RP, it gives us complexity. In what game you have to learn OOC how to hack, to hack? In what game you have to learn OOC how to perform surgery, to perform surgery? In what game you have to know OOC names of medicines and what they do, to heal? All of that at once and in multiplayer game with "perma death"(no respawn for humans).
It doesn't help that CM is a combat server. I won't hide that this is my first combat server I played and back then(and now) I liked combat and atmosphere here. "Metafavouritism" and powergaming was something that pushed me from one that I mained, but that's offtopic.
Xenos are pure combat and no RP.

All I'm saying that you can't avoid pure combat and meme players. By some unknown reasons they play SS13 instead of TF2, or CoD, or Frotnite. For some sad reasons they have to meme to show how cool they are, to annoy somebody, or they don't know any other way to express themselfs besides spitting memes and spinning.

The only solution? Shift xenos with marines. Less marines, more xenos. Even PFC should be class that you have to roll, otherwise you will get some drone, or runner. Buff weapon's DMG and here you go. 100 xenos vs 30 marines.
You can't do much LRP as a xeno. It's mostly impossible. It will solve 90% problems with RP. Shitlers will spin and Reee in hivemind, they will get banned few times, they will roll PFC few times, they will meme, they will get brigged/BE'ed few times, they will learn to respect the game.

[Szunti]

Restraining BC to only SG is dumb too.

What's wrong with this? You can gift the BC to the PFC carrying your extra powerpack.

[Build_R_]

-SNIP-

That's a massive psychological evaluation for a playerbase there. Some of that doesn't really make sense though, it's not really a simulation of life no matter what way you look at it, it's a 2d spaceman game where you can't walk 2 steps without there being blood on the walls. You can easily avoid memey players by just following orders and you can avoid pure combat by choosing some shipside role. In fact, a lot of players don't even engage in combat for the majority of the round (MTs, Doctors, SOs hopefully etc.).

Also in no way whatsoever is massively shifting the popular role of marines down to 30 slots 'the only solution'. That would result in almost every person with an established character being wiped off the face of the earth to be replaced with 30 people that may or may not survive 5 minutes on the ground and cannot increase their numbers.

Besides that, what would decreasing the amount of marines even do to help their LRP? This just condenses the marines into one delta squad making them even more effective at metabuddying while forcing a lot of people to play a role they don't want. You can't just stop LowRP memey PFCs by removing a massive amount of PFC slots, that's like a poorly thought out group punishment which will still result in LRP.

[CABAL]

That's a massive psychological evaluation for a playerbase there. Some of that doesn't really make sense though, it's not really a simulation of life no matter what way you look at it, it's a 2d spaceman game where you can't walk 2 steps without there being blood on the walls. You can easily avoid memey players by just following orders and you can avoid pure combat by choosing some shipside role. In fact, a lot of players don't even engage in combat for the majority of the round (MTs, Doctors, SOs hopefully etc.).

Also in no way whatsoever is massively shifting the popular role of marines down to 30 slots 'the only solution'. That would result in almost every person with an established character being wiped off the face of the earth to be replaced with 30 people that may or may not survive 5 minutes on the ground and cannot increase their numbers.

Besides that, what would decreasing the amount of marines even do to help their LRP? This just condenses the marines into one delta squad making them even more effective at metabuddying while forcing a lot of people to play a role they don't want. You can't just stop LowRP memey PFCs by removing a massive amount of PFC slots, that's like a poorly thought out group punishment which will still result in LRP.

Maybe it's a bit too harsh, but I don't see other solution besides OOC rules enforced by staff, or MP's which both will result in weaking marines overall by removing manpower.
Shipside roles don't have much problem with RP, they are mosty bound to "higher RP standard" and they have a lot to do (besides MP).
Treating SS13 as normal game is, in my opinion, wrong. There are dozens of games that have better combat gameplay. There are plenty games with Aliens theme, AVP in particular.

Why play SS13 only for combat if other (also free) games exist?

[Build_R_]

Maybe it's a bit too harsh, but I don't see other solution besides OOC rules enforced by staff, or MP's which both will result in weaking marines overall by removing manpower.
Shipside roles don't have much problem with RP, they are mosty bound to "higher RP standard" and they have a lot to do (besides MP).
Treating SS13 as normal game is, in my opinion, wrong. There are dozens of games that have better combat gameplay. There are plenty games with Aliens theme, AVP in particular.

Why play SS13 only for combat if other (also free) games exist?

The idea of MP arrests weakening marines overall should be threatening, it's meant to discourage shittery by higher marine ranks like specs, in regards to the staff enforcement the only major issue I see is when something problematic is left as an IC issue, meaning MPs have to handle the brunt of the memery.


With your second point I'm a bit confused, you're saying that there's much more to CM and SS13 altogether than just combat. Before you said that " CM is a combat server", "Xenos are pure combat and no RP" and that we should "Shift xenos with marines". Wouldn't this tilt the server massively towards pure combat and away from roleplay?

[CABAL]

The idea of MP arrests weakening marines overall should be threatening, it's meant to discourage shittery by higher marine ranks like specs, in regards to the staff enforcement the only major issue I see is when something problematic is left as an IC issue, meaning MPs have to handle the brunt of the memery.


With your second point I'm a bit confused, you're saying that there's much more to CM and SS13 altogether than just combat. Before you said that " CM is a combat server", "Xenos are pure combat and no RP" and that we should "Shift xenos with marines". Wouldn't this tilt the server massively towards pure combat and away from roleplay?

"Combat Server" in the reality of "classic" SS13 where you are not fighting that much.

No RP means no LRP. As a xeno you can't do anything LRP besides spinning and memeing in hivemind. You have nothing to learn, you don't have to wait in lines to get attachements, you don't have to holster your claws in briefing, there is no "Alien Law" that you have to obey, you can't pick up/drag objects not tied to xenos directly, you are not able to not wear you armor and much. Just bare OOC minimum of not power/metagaming (to certain degree, you can powergame and meta much).
In the situation where majority of memers would play as xenos, you would have less visible memes that you can't do anything with. Less marines favours more "attachement" to your squad, you can actually exchange alteast a word with 30 marines during 20 minutes briefing and gearing up.

CM is something more than combat, but it only gives tools, it's not doing anything for you. You can just vend shotgun and buckshot from a vendor and go into the fray. But you can also prepare your gear, label it, wear headband instead of helmet, drink suoto, RP and have fun.

Some people just don't use those tools, or they are using it wrong on purpose. Let them earn those tools by atleast RNG roll. Just like we have to earn Specs.

[Dolth]

What's wrong with this? You can gift the BC to the PFC carrying your extra powerpack.

Excuse me who does that?

[Build_R_]

"Combat Server" in the reality of "classic" SS13 where you are not fighting that much.

No RP means no LRP. As a xeno you can't do anything LRP besides spinning and memeing in hivemind. You have nothing to learn, you don't have to wait in lines to get attachements, you don't have to holster your claws in briefing, there is no "Alien Law" that you have to obey, you can't pick up/drag objects not tied to xenos directly, you are not able to not wear you armor and much. Just bare OOC minimum of not power/metagaming (to certain degree, you can powergame and meta much).
In the situation where majority of memers would play as xenos, you would have less visible memes that you can't do anything with. Less marines favours more "attachement" to your squad, you can actually exchange alteast a word with 30 marines during 20 minutes briefing and gearing up.

CM is something more than combat, but it only gives tools, it's not doing anything for you. You can just vend shotgun and buckshot from a vendor and go into the fray. But you can also prepare your gear, label it, wear headband instead of helmet, drink suoto, RP and have fun.

Some people just don't use those tools, or they are using it wrong on purpose. Let them earn those tools by atleast RNG roll. Just like we have to earn Specs.

I disagree with the xenos being unable to RP, they have some things to learn (Tallhosts arriving on a bird, OB lasers, spec weapons) and they do follow the 'alien law' that is any order set by their queen, disobeying which is punishable by a ban rather than just some brig time. I understand that this is muuuuuch more limited than marine RP though.

So how is an RNG roll 'earning' the role? Anyone can just tick a box and 'earn' a spec role that way, this doesn't guarantee they'll RP whatsoever. And if you want more RP how will removing slots for the only roles where you can RP accomplishing this?

[CABAL]

I disagree with the xenos being unable to RP, they have some things to learn (Tallhosts arriving on a bird, OB lasers, spec weapons) and they do follow the 'alien law' that is any order set by their queen, disobeying which is punishable by a ban rather than just some brig time. I understand that this is muuuuuch more limited than marine RP though.

So how is an RNG roll 'earning' the role? Anyone can just tick a box and 'earn' a spec role that way, this doesn't guarantee they'll RP whatsoever. And if you want more RP how will removing slots for the only roles where you can RP accomplishing this?

OB lasers and spec weapons were disscused long ago and labeled as meta that is accepted, becouse acting like you don't know have a high chance of getting you killed.
Even if so, as xeno you can't meme nearly as much as marine. You can't be disrespectful to Queen, other xenos support Queen, becouse she can take part in fight and she will, unlike CO. Being disrespectful to Queen is also OOC issue. If xeno is doing that, he is breaking "Hivemind rule" about acting as xeno would.
Xeno have a clean purpose: Fight marines with any means necessary. Powergame as much as you want, metagame as much as you want, but with the exeption of LZ before marines arrive and Almayer untill hijack. Xenos are basically assistants that "heard the voice in their mind saying:... Kill anything that isn't assistant in grey jumpsuit, but obey Prime Greytider, his word is your order..."

Alien law it's just it: Listen to the Queen when she directly asks you for something. Or atleast act like you are obeying untill that icon of "eye" disappears.

RNG roll would reduce amount of memers on the USCM side for sure. It's easier to deal with five memers, than with fifteen. Rolling spec and being brigged is basically deleting your roll. You will usually see less memery and disrespect among specs, becouse they know it's their lucky round. Some only still thinks that since they are spec, they can't be touched.

I would respect PFC role more if it would be something rare. Now I don't even bother reacing to colonist's corpses. "Oh no! Corpse! It has a wound in chest! Looks like a small explosion... Interesting. Oh no! Another body! Blood! What is that weird goo? Looks fresh."

[WinterClould]

Yeah I think I fucking know why

Please I'm desperate tell me why.

[adrenalinetooth]

Honestly, if someone wants to play TDM just pony up for one on Steam and play that. Go NRP it up there. The combat here isn't even that great, nor is the balance. I don't hold that against devs as I disbelieve that that's essential to the experience of the game, but every round I see people talk it up like it's the soul of the it. I came into this game thinking that it wasn't the type you played to win. Was I wrong?

I agree with your words here a lot.

When I first came to this game, shooting aliens wasn't the primary focus on my mind. I was blown away by the roles, the ship, the massive player count.
There is NO other fighting game out there where it includes:

• The front line combat
• Doctors and a hospital to treat wounded, all with real people running it
• A command crew with fleshed out and respectable officers
• a motherfucking space ship, with a whole crew to run it and all of the small intricacies that includes

Not even ARMA has this kind of shit. ARMA just has the frontline combat. That's what pulled me into Colonial Marines. Not the shitty 2D combat, but the fleshed out details.

When I first started playing this game, I took everything serious because the content appeared to be serious. I didn't dare touch SL until a few months after I started playing because I expected such an important role to be monitored by staff for competency, just like any other military game out there would have set in place. It didn't take me long to figure out that a six year old crayon eater can take SL and no one bats an eye; there is no "must have a minimal level of competency in order to squad lead" in favor of allowing everyone to "have a shot at it". Even if you took these roles seriously and tried your best to make a difference with good leadership, it didn't and still doesn't matter because no one is bound by the rules to listen to you.

There's a server I frequent from another game that publicly hosts rounds for anyone to join in and play. They have squad leaders, platoon commanders, etc. that are available for anyone to join in on the basic premise that they have the basic competency to create a plan, follow out orders, and keep radio contact with command. There is no forced leadership, there's no punishment if you fail, you only have to try your best. The men under the leaders are bound to follow the orders of their leader, and there is no after round salt, only a "how can we do better next time" attitude. In this community there is no "shoot your fellow marine because you dislike him" or "kill your commander because his orders suck" because that's not what your average marine does, simply put.

Perhaps what I am trying to get at here is that there should be a minimum amount of expected competency shown for any sort of leadership role such as SL, SO, XO, CE, etc. There doesn't have to be a time-locked role system, just guidelines that are expected to be followed such as:

• Following orders and carrying them out (if command wants you to set up TCOMMS, you go do it)
• speaking and communicating with Command ( Giving command information, responding to command when they try to contact you)
• Directing your subordinates to complete the task at hand appropriately (You can't just stay silent, you have to tell your men what to do in order to get the current task done)
  
  If a player in a leadership role cannot follow those minimum requirements, then they would get jobbanned from leadership positions.

And then below that for any non leadership role:

• Follow the orders of those above you, unless said orders are inhumane or contradict the Geneva Convention (If a squad leader orders you to secure that area, you secure it. If someone orders you to shoot a civilian or kill yourself, this would be the time to refuse an order and/or mutiny)

If leadership roles were held up to minimum competency, only serious players would take up the gauntlet. If a goofy player that shows incompetency took the role, they would get axed pretty quickly.

I would respect my leaders 1000x more knowing that my life is truly in their hands depending on their orders.

[GenericUsername]

While I enjoy some changes like a crewmember deploying without permission not being instantly banned or other things that could be IC situations, we do indeed need some more ooc enforcement on PFCs... I'm ok with them doing suicidal charges and such, but following orders to a minimum extent should be enforced.
Cant blame PFCs for prefering to rush to the frontlines than to sit at the FOB though.

[Szunti]

Another idea is to add insubordination points which a marine can accumulate across rounds. Eg. after i-th round: Insub(i) = Insub(i-1) * R + bad?1:0
R < 1 is a factor which controls diminishing of your accumulated points with time, and you are bad if you were reported for insubordination or arrested as marine in the current round.

When you have Insub above 2, you wouldn't be able to play spec, smartgunner, SL or ERT.

[Rikman]

Another idea is to add insubordination points which a marine can accumulate across rounds. Eg. after i-th round: Insub(i) = Insub(i-1) * R + bad?1:0
R < 1 is a factor which controls diminishing of your accumulated points with time, and you are bad if you were reported for insubordination or arrested as marine in the current round.

When you have Insub above 2, you wouldn't be able to play spec, smartgunner, SL or ERT.

No.

[CABAL]

Being arrested as a thing to this "counter" is as bad as my Synth's story.

Punishment that passes from round to round might be interesting, but LRP meme PFC, will stay LRP meme PFC. ERT's are not that common, they are usually screwed anyways etc.

What about letting marines handle other marines? You know, when one startes to spin in briefing, then those around him could try to "calm" him down. Maybe ask him to meet in bunks. Hide few marines in lockers, when he cames back, everyone gangs up and beat the shit out of him. MP is alerted by noises, goes to check and you are saying that this particular marine "fell off" the ladder *wink *wink.
"Mini-Mutiny", where I guess you need only one another marine to serve punishment. This way we would eliminate the risk of metabullying.

SL would be nice to deal with them pre-drop. Just like in the movie: Apone talked to Hudson after he asked stupid question to officer. If PFC under your command did something stupid, you are responsible for him as a guy with 10 IQ more.

[Enigmachine]

On Goonstation if you shit up a round one of their punishments is to be forced to play as a Cluwne. I wouldn't mind seeing a similar punishment for low-level shittery. Like, spawn in a lockbox on the lower west-side, past the hangar, and be ID locked out of everything. Just have the Mk1 M41 with a mag belt, your helmet/armor/boots/uni, and call this awfulness PVT.

Oh god oh fuck

[Build_R_]

On Goonstation if you shit up a round one of their punishments is to be forced to play as a Cluwne. I wouldn't mind seeing a similar punishment for low-level shittery. Like, spawn in a lockbox on the lower west-side, past the hangar, and be ID locked out of everything. Just have the Mk1 M41 with a mag belt, your helmet/armor/boots/uni, and call this awfulness PVT.

Oh god oh fuck

Ouch, hitting the memers where it hurts. Right in the attachments. It's a weird idea but it would certainly discourage any shittery from marines. On the other hand, you would have people not wanting to fight at all since all they have is these basic necessities when they need their fully kitted out M4A3 with 3 attachments on it to kill a xeno.

[Enigmachine]

On the other hand, you would have people not wanting to fight at all since all they have is these basic necessities when they need their fully kitted out M4A3 with 3 attachments on it to kill a xeno.

Up theirs.

The punishment PVT round would be there to make you have a shit-ass time. If you don't want it then just behave.

[Sulaboy]

Hey guys LRP is against the rules.

[Avalanchee]

Hey guys LRP is against the rules.

Who enforces rules anyways

[chocolate_bickie]

Who enforces rules anyways

The moder...hmmm.
Well the MPs when the CO dosen't overrule them soooo, never.

Er, xenos?

In all seriousness mods enforce most rules, it's just that players hardly ever report minor things that benefit their side.