CLF Zombie round and how to make a bad event!

[JJG]

Harsh title, but honestly, this was just bad. Here are some pointers to everything that went wrong.

• 1. The setup took way too long!
  • 25 minutes of setup for one big room for the CLF to hold at LV containers and a few MG's...are you serious?
  • Please compile the server and train setting up the event before going live if you aren't familiar with settings things up.
• 2. The HvH made no sense in the bigger picture of the round!
  • If you expected the CLF to hold their little base for longer than 5 minutes you really need to play more HvH.
  • There were huge open flanks to the east and west leading into the base which were completely indefensible for the CLF, their MG's couldn't even shoot there!
  • There was too much open space inside the base, and no long hallways to defend. Which meant that as soon as marines got inside they could just swarm the entire base!
• 3. Zombies (How they should have been set up)
  • All CLF on the planet should have had a latent zombie virus infection that would turn them when they would eventually get overrun by the marines! This would have made IC sense since the scientist working on the project was supposedly not even a real member of the CLF but a hostage. So, if 20 CLF zombies suddenly attack the marines at least 10 or so would have been infected at which point the infection would have snowballed.
    Marines on the retreat, and more importantly everyone on the server actually playing. 40 Minutes later the zombies would have killed or turned everyone on the Almayer and the game would have been over. 1.5 hours, everyone had fun, GG All!
• 4. Zombies (What actually happened)
  • What happened instead was that another CLF ERT was spawned as well as some Zombie virus in a bottle. Not a word was said on what was supposed to be done with the virus.
    A few CLF literally drank entire bottles of the stuff which meant less of the ERT were infected, to begin with. There was ZERO direction given on what to fucking do? What the fuck is this "Built-your-own-Event"?
  • Marines came back up with the Alamo and of course completely annihilated the relatively small CLF ERT that was spawned because what the fuck did you expect?
  • The few infected CLF there were, would then eventually turn a while later on their own and begin attacking the marines. But since almost no casualties or damage has been done to the Marines up to this point, nothing really happened.
    Maybe 6 people got infected and were quickly dealt with, of course, all of this happened over the spawn of another 50 minutes in which at least 40 people are dead the entire time and even the ones playing are dying of boredom.
  Round End.
  
  I just have to say that this event was not only bad, but worse, it was LAZY! For future events, please learn how HvH meta works, learn how to give directions to event members!
  And make sure that people are having fun and don't just all sit around in deadchat watching NOTHING happen. 0/5

[Dubszor]

I was the CLF Zombie-Virus Maker.

I made tons of Zombie-Nades for the CLF, they just never asked for them. I was obviously not just gonna give them it, since as a hostage, I IC hated them. The only way they would get it is if they threatened me, but uh, they never even asked for the nades.

But other than that, i had fun with the RP.

It was kind of sad, actually.

[JJG]

See I didn't even know that you were a hostage since no one said anything about you being a hostage. I just assumed that you were staff and just acting like you were doing something until it was the right time to reveal that you magically had the virus developed.

We were even told to "not disturb you under any circumstances". Which made it seem even more like you were just there for fluff.

[Dubszor]

Oof, the only people who knew what i was making was the CLF Command Staff, so uh.

Theres that.

[Jerkface00]

I'm open to criticism and will be the first to tell you it didn't go as planned. This however tastes like salt.

Lets roll:

Any setup wherein map customization takes place requires some setup time. A single basic building with the tools available is what took up most of the setup time. In fact up to the point marines were marching in, myself and 2 admins were still spawning stuff into the building to get it functional. Compilation isn't an option. Turns out BYOND is shit and making things on the fly to be half decent takes some time. In all we did the following for pre-round and pre-fight setup:

1:

1) Delete all OB/CAS starting materials so marines don't just instagib CLF base;
2) Create bare-bones floor plan for CLF base that's large enough for a fight but not so large as to take an hour to build. Make it pretty enough that it doesn't look like complete shit, but not so much detail as to take forever;
3) Get powernet setup so things work;
4) Ensure ERT shuttles won't be hijacked by spawns to instantly derail event intent;
5) Create and var-edit means for players to move from spawn to CLF base that also cannot be back-traveled, keep eye on where they land for if/when marines overrun so it can be re-routed (takes as long to re-route as to set up in the first place);
6) Spawn in weapons, fixed MGs, construction materials, doors, lights, ammo for assorted weapons, fluff, medical tables, surgical trays, surgical masks, latex gloves, auto docs, autodoc consoles, blood vendor, medical vendor, food vendor, chem dispenser chem master, assorted chairs, cryo pods, armbands, empty chem grenades, pre-built chem-grenade fuses/detonators, screwdrivers, beakers, signs to give standing instructions to reduce the volume of ahelp spam;
7) Create unbiased system for selection of CLF roles (armband system here, where bad guys pick up spawned, named, armbands and ahelp to get job+materials+skills, all of which have to be either customized, edited, or spawned in, per person);
8) Identify which players have relevant RP roles and inform them of any IC information they'll need (In this case the CLF officers needed to know about the black goo + the hostage who was producing weapons for them to use. They would need to coerce his cooperation but not kill him; Civilian researcher must know how to make research grenades that work + understand he's a general non-combatant and shouldn't try to escape without solid conditions [conditions were 1) CLF try to kill him, 2) marines are about to rescue him]). Only the CLF leader, the civilian researcher and 1 of 3 officers ahelped about getting their jobs, I had to track down the others to inform them of what was going on.

2:
A common problem with extended HvH rounds is the numbers of people who roll either as marines or float around as ghosts isn't predictable or enforceable. In this particular round there were about 120 marines to 30-40 CLF at any given time. Even spawning them as they died as fast as was possible did nothing to stem the flow.

A regular complaint I get about HvH is those long defend able hallways that are "so boring", "so predictable", "impossible to break" (that still get broken), and "lack space to fight". This layout was an attempt at something different to allow for those criticisms to be taken into account. There were blindspots intentionally left in the MG's field of view so the defenders had to defend more then just the kill-zone of HMGs. Again, number predictability is hard to get before the round, and with most of the above spawn list taking place after marines spawned (basically everything after number 2 was done once the round started) so I didn't make a "fix" to the flank for the CLF in time to account for the large number of marines who stormed said flank.

3:
Your suggestion is nice, I'd love to have it set up like that.
It's currently mechanically impossible to set it up like that.

Options for setting up infected are as follows:
1) set round to infection: marines get OOC notice before the round that there are zombies, several survivors are spawned at round start and some start out infected. 1-5 people start as infected humans at round start. No cure spawned in.
2) set round to extended: everyone who readies up is a marine. Everyone who is a ghost waits for ERTs to spawn. Zombies are introduced as [1] ERT zombies, [2] black goo bottles are introduced and people come into contact/consume the reagents, [3] admin-abuse people by forcing the black goo upon them 1 at a time (preferably in some fair,or at least rational, and random manner).

The maximum latency for anyone infected is the same time for someone newly infected by a zombie. It's probably possible for me to somehow extend the time it takes for the black goo to manifest once someone is infected, but that'd be a global thing and I'm not sure which var would control it, or what side effects it might have if i touch it.

In this particular round, I tried something different and new; I recently discovered black goo worked in smoke or liquid form in research grenades. So, I provided the CLF base with the materials to make said grenades, provided the CLF with a skilled character who could make them (and a player who knew how to make them), and gave them the information how they could acquire them. pre-filled research grenades aren't something that can be spawned in; they must be created IC.

Because marines won the HvH portion almost as soon as they arrived, the CLF never got around to getting the grenades from the researcher. Shit happens.

4:
You must have missed me saying in LOOC to the CLF on the shuttle that they were being given the materials to make black goo grenades so they could make zombies. Pretty sure that qualifies as more then zero direction. Forgive me for spawning things in before speaking as to what the things were for, or for people grabbing things and chugging them in that time. That's what I get for having faith in people to not eat anything they can the instant they see them.

To directly answer your question; I expected at least 1 person to try to use the weapons and time provided to them to try something new. In fact, it appeared exactly one person did so, they (unbeknownst to me at the time) however didn't know how to make the grenades and forgot to lock it so they could arm it. I watched as this poor hero struggled to detonate his gas grenade inside the shuttle full of marines, where had he been successful, would have infected upwards of 20-30 marines with black goo with a single grenade because of how both gas and liquid dynamics are in relation to super-tight quarters being packed with people.

The last part of this sounds like a complaint as to how the marines won a zombie round by keeping zombie numbers under control. That's how 100% of marine wins on zombie rounds occur; zombies get cured or destroyed and marines have to figure out which ones have already been cured and are no longer a threat. It's slow.

I look forward to legitimate criticisms, they help make events better. But please leave your deadchat salt piles at the door, it isn't helpful.

[Renomaki]

I was one of the marines that round. Tried to capture a UPP trooper that I found and PoW RP it up, only to end up having to chase them into the jungle when they ran and then lose a knife fight due to my sense of honor and not realize that HEAVY UPP HELMETS offer insane protection against knives... Go figure.

If I may ask, how many people were helping with the creation/spawning in that event? I didn't check how many staff were on, but I feel that maybe if it took too long, it would have been good to have got some extra help (or planned ahead with other staff to ensure maximum assistance) so you could tackle more before the beginning of the round. Maybe even dedicate duties to each staff member (such as one being in charge of setting up the basic structure, another handling spawning of items, etc etc) so it would seem less stressful and allow for more focus, since even with a team, having to do a dozen things at once can be very overwhelming...

As for HvH itself, it is sadly a fun concept, but flawed in practice simply due to how damage works in this game. All it takes is one bad bullet, and you are out, no ifs, ands, or buts. And very often it is your head that gets fucked up, meaning movement kills you unless you got a splint on hand, but even then, you'll probably just die anyways from brain damage, if not from the person that shot you (from the dark, no less).

I bet if armor protected more against bullets and gave you a few more hits before you start breaking bones and getting fucked in the arse because of it, then maybe we could have more engaging firefights. That is what is supposed to be FUN about HvH: Creating heated combat zones where lead flies, artillery rocks the field and the battleground becomes a sea of blood and horror as men fight and die for their beliefs.

but until armor (and HELMETS, most of all) can soak more lead before your bones shatter and organs splat, most combat involving HvH is just going to consist of cheap, unfair deaths where a guy bursts you once with an assault rifle and you flop on the ground, completely helpless to do anything but die a slow death until a medic sends you to medbay...

Either that, or you never see action in the first place. That is a very common theme for me: I get all geared up, excited to shoot some terrorist, only for everyone else to rush ahead of me and get all the fun while I just waddle in from behind, bored out of my mind because I didn't get to shoot anything, let alone get shot at.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Something to remember about major events that require setup.

Admins/heads need to basically create a small map within a map and make sure it has proper power, atompsheric stuff, equipment, etc...
Then they to make sure the equipment is right, then spawn in a ERT with a way for them to get to the map.

Over all a setup on these rounds can take 30+ minutes.

Jerkface does these the best he can, sometimes they go well, other times the CLF zombie rounds go to shit. Last time we did a zombie round the CLF got curb stomped within 10 minutes of marines landing.

But as long as someone gets infected, the zombies spread and thats when the real fun begins.

[Sora9567]

From what I can tell, it seemed to be a situation of one side not utilizing what they have, and the other completely capitalizing with what they got. Like Bjorn said, the CLF didn't really utilize what he had, and since marines apparently rescued him from captivity, they were rewarded with delicious, delicious cure, which they gave to the literal sole being on the ship who could style on zombies and save infected marines: good ol' Omen.

If the CLF communicated *juuuuust* a little better, or if marines unga'd *juuuuust* a little too hard and accidentally killed the researcher, the round would've gone completely differently. It's just circumstances that you can't really predict on a 150+ person event round.

[CABAL]

There isn't something like "bad Zombie round". Every time zombie appears, it makes event 2x better atleast. It's a shame I can't play outside weekends. More ZOMBIES! please.

[kastion]

I will never understand marines complaining about being bored or delay or whatever when they rush whatever they are fighting as fast as they can and try to kill it in 10 minutes every single match. No shit you killed all the CLF and the game is over if you just charge them and kill them as fast as possible.

[Build_R_]

I was one of the initial CLF and I had no clue what the researcher was working on or that there even was a zombie virus until halfway through the round. At that point me, several other CLF and the captain of CLF himself had been taken prisoner, I don't believe the captain ever tried distributing the virus or they just never got around to it. If they had that would've maybe turned things around.
It was a fun round for me regardless though, the title is excessive salt.

[FGRSentinel]

Honestly I thought the round was fine except for all Medical staff abandoning their duties with over a dozen wounded.

The thing to remember is that every event, large or small, is dictated more by the nature of the players than it is by the intents of the admins. Unless the admin setting it up is a Laplace Demon able to foresee how every single player will react to things in the event and what sides they'll be on, they have no way of 100% controlling the flow of the round short of letting it start normally, doing something to prevent an early Marine launch, taking the time to explain to the other side exactly what's going to happen, and THEN doing all the prep work.

[KingPhilipIII]

A huge problem was the CLF engineers didn't even do their job, so we had virtually no defenses to hold. I was doing fine, I assblasted like six or seven marines that tried to unga across the river before the flank to my side failed and I had to abandon my position.

[CABAL]

Well... Players fucking something up isn't new. It's not staff fault event went wrong here and there. The only fault might be that they are taking too much to build themselfs, instead of reuse shit that is already in the colony. Especially true on ICE, Big Red and Prison.
This is why I always was a fan of "normal" zombie rounds. Just spawn 20 survivor slots and like 5 zombies. Marines do their usuall crap and they go down thinking it's nothing too out of ordinary.

Just that. You can't fuck this up. Run away from zombies, or barricade yourself somewhere. No black goo stuff to drink, no "hostages", no "Commanders" etc.

During zombies medical is not needed that much. It doesn't matter that you have broken chest, you are infected, go RP crying that you have to die and nobody can't do anything. Shoot yourself and then wait to stand up as a zombie.
Shit is just intense. One hit and it's 90% sure that "Killswitch" has been activated.

There is one thing to blame staff: They still can't comprehend that during HvH it should be day. There is no fun to fight darkness. Let me pack slugs to my shotgun, turn off all lights and let me hit everyone just twice.
Let me pack Pulse Rifle with railscope, suppressor, grip, stock, EB and AP = Pure fun when entire screen is black, you can't even see if you are kissing wall, or if you just walked across the map. Just turn that light for a militick (delays) and BAM! Eat leaden death punk! Go to Big Red engineering, lick that uranium wall and pray for nightvision mutation.

Marines need 3x3 titles nightvision if you can't make day on those maps.

[waswar]

It seems a bit unproductive to just blame the staff immediately for the results of an even. Invariably, there will always be some variation, in both the players’ skill and tactics. Ultimately, administrators are not omnipotent, and cannot predict everything that happens throughout the round.

The posters seem to indicate that much of the problem was with CLF players, such as engineers that did not reinforce their position and an uncommunicative command staff, along other things. Ultimately, it does seem up to the administrators as to decide whether or not to make up for a bit of cluelessness on the part of the players, though it’s possible that the researcher’s fate was kept as it was for story related things that were not brought up.

All in all, there’s quite a bit of work, and due to the wide range of player skill, you won’t exactly be able to railroad an event exactly as one wants.