There needs to be actual punishments for disobeying orders.

[Chemical]

I don't if this has been talked about much, but I'm posting here to talk about how frustrating it is to get your squad to listen sometimes as the SL. I really think there should be lasting consequences (bans) for marines that do not listen to the SL's orders. The same goes for SL's that repeatedly disobey the orders of command (unless command's orders are irrational or contradicting). If marines continue to get away with not following orders as they are with no long-term consequences (the whole insub thing doesn't accomplish much), it makes it less fun for those who do follow the orders as well as those who give them.

On a side note, I'd like to note that some of the current CO's are really just... not very good. There's some great ones, some good ones, some acceptable ones, and then there's just the bad ones that make me not want to follow them at all. Here's to hoping the new CO update either makes them step up their game or get demoted.

[Butlerblock]

ic issue

[Viperious]

Actually, it's mentioned clearly in the rules for the marines that they are at peak physical and mental condition. Flat out refusing to follow or ignoring orders is not reflective of a trained marine and should incur some form of OOC punishment, since disobeying orders tend to result in the death of that marine, meaning no IC action can be taken, yet they can still cause difficulty for other marines.

[Kineem]

Actually, it's mentioned clearly in the rules for the marines that they are at peak physical and mental condition. Flat out refusing to follow or ignoring orders is not reflective of a trained marine and should incur some form of OOC punishment, since disobeying orders tend to result in the death of that marine, meaning no IC action can be taken, yet they can still cause difficulty for other marines.

all the rules say is that the marines aren't downright psychotic, they aren't going to go out of their way to kill fellow USCM-aligned members, and they're physically trained enough that they can perform tasks they're required to do

[Viperious]

all the rules say is that the marines aren't downright psychotic, they aren't going to go out of their way to kill fellow USCM-aligned members, and they're physically trained enough that they can perform tasks they're required to do

"They would not desert their post or go against the UCSM without a good reason"

[Weaselburg]

"They would not desert their post or go against the UCSM without a good reason"

What a unga sees as a good reason is different from what a SL sees as a good reason.

[Kineem]

"They would not desert their post or go against the UCSM without a good reason"

you're twisting the actual meaning behind those words.

it literally states "desertion". that means marines wouldn't just randomly leave the USCM without good reason. being insubordinate is not desertion. "going against" the USCM means treason. marines wouldn't desert or commit treason without a good reason.

considering that the aliens are horrifying biomechanical abominations the likes of which have never been seen before, refusing to deploy once you know of them is perfectly reasonable.

[Urytion]

It was discussed a while back that it is an OOC issue if an SL does not follow orders from their higherups. For marines below that it's an IC issue. If an SL is completely ignoring command orders to go unga dunga instead, ahelp/report it.

For the lower ranks, they do need something. Currently it's resolved IC by MPs and command officers, but let's be honest, that doesn't do shit. I deploy, I ignore my SL, I get marked insub. I will generally either die on the planet, or evac at the last opportunity, and then there are more pressing matters than arresting a marine for ignoring orders. Even if I do get arrested I'll likely be released in a few minutes when the dropship hits us.

[kastion]

make it where if you get marked as insub the next round you cant roll spec/sg/fun stuff. Then people will quit being douchebags as much.

[HKO20006]

make it where if you get marked as insub the next round you cant roll spec/sg/fun stuff. Then people will quit being douchebags as much.

Ah, like de evolve but it's for marines and happen in the next round he plays.

[Sora9567]

Ah, like de evolve but it's for marines and happen in the next round he plays.

It's really the only way for marines to own up to the insub and either get it cleared or serve their sentence. Right now, if a marine is set to insub, they'll just keep doing what they're doing, and instead of evaccing, they just fight to the death. It's not really a punishment.

[spookydonut]

ic issue

[Chemical]

It was discussed a while back that it is an OOC issue if an SL does not follow orders from their higherups. For marines below that it's an IC issue. If an SL is completely ignoring command orders to go unga dunga instead, ahelp/report it.

For the lower ranks, they do need something. Currently it's resolved IC by MPs and command officers, but let's be honest, that doesn't do shit. I deploy, I ignore my SL, I get marked insub. I will generally either die on the planet, or evac at the last opportunity, and then there are more pressing matters than arresting a marine for ignoring orders. Even if I do get arrested I'll likely be released in a few minutes when the dropship hits us.

This.

"make it where if you get marked as insub the next round you cant roll spec/sg/fun stuff. Then people will quit being douchebags as much."

That's a good idea. But for insub marines that don't care about those roles it wouldn't affect them.

[Avalanchee]

make it where if you get marked as insub the next round you cant roll spec/sg/fun stuff. Then people will quit being douchebags as much.

Yeah but what about PFC mains

[RuAlastor]

Yeah but what about PFC mains

RO should see all marked for insub from previous round and deny all the attacies

[Ttly]

Yeah sure. but most of the time the robust people aren't command staff, it's the people that play ground roles.
Really, most SOs are just bad, doesn't know the map, doesn't know how the game works, the people that are actually playing the game instead of textbox chat simulator knows the map and the game better so of course they know what's best for them instead of some jackass that OBed the FOB.

There's also the fact that if you want to be a good SO you're going to spend the entire round spamming the chatbox and hammering the :q,d,v,c,b,etc. shit on the keyboard repeating the same sentence as a "mini announcement" of sort and that's just soul crushing in all honesty.

Oh also the ow console messenger sucks because no one other than the squad receives the message, so even if the other SOs tune into your channel they won't know what you just tell your squad and that sucks for coordinating between squads.

[DriedMilk]

First step at getting decent at leading is:

Don't blame others for your inability to lead.

There's a reason why people won't follow an SL/CO/SO/XO/Whatever around.

A good, well-known SL will always get followed around even by the Ungaiest of PFCs.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

On a side note, I'd like to note that some of the current CO's are really just... not very good. There's some great ones, some good ones, some acceptable ones, and then there's just the bad ones that make me not want to follow them at all.

You said it yourself. If you often don't want to follow the orders of a COMMANDER (bad ones, like you said), why are you blaming people for not wanting to follow the orders of lower rank folks, like SLs or SOs (could be bad, could be bald, could be unable to speak English)?

You marines have a dedicated system to gain a reputation, to gain a following, to get known. Fucking use it. You don't even have to be robust or anything. Just play a lot, be nice, and interact with other players for once; instead of just simply sitting on your high and mighty chair and barking orders at people then getting mad when they don't follow you.

[kastion]

First step at getting decent at leading is:

Don't blame others for your inability to lead.

There's a reason why people won't follow an SL/CO/SO/XO/Whatever around.

A good, well-known SL will always get followed around even by the Ungaiest of PFCs.

Or you can blame everyone for everything and then you will believe you are the best leader because everyone else is a screw up. Check mate.

[Enigmachine]

be nice,

► Show Spoiler

I made a post about this in the thread where everyone was complaining about NRP/LRP marines.

Make a punishment role like Goon has with Cluwne and let staff punish ungas who take things too far using it. Call the role PVT and dole it out as forced punishment rounds. Have them spawn in a big lockbox beyond the hangar with an intercomm and nothing but basic gear (M41 Mk.1 and a mag belt, nothing else aside from the uniform). ID lock the role out of literally everything else.

"You don't know how to use the pump-shotgun"

That, and command could empower MP's IC'ly to carry out executions planetside. With the current rules. There isn't actually a rule that executions HAVE to be done in the brig viewing chamber. Command can designate other places. The wiki example of an execution announcement has it being done in briefing, of all places. it doesn't strike me as unreasonable for them to get authorization to do it at a secure FOB.

Or just give MP's the porta-brigs other servers have (with a timer added), or ways to build 1-person cells at the FOB.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

► Show Spoiler

I made a post about this in the thread where everyone was complaining about NRP/LRP marines.

Make a punishment role like Goon has with Cluwne and let staff punish ungas who take things too far using it. Call the role PVT and dole it out as forced punishment rounds. Have them spawn in a big lockbox beyond the hangar with an intercomm and nothing but basic gear (M41 Mk.1 and a mag belt, nothing else aside from the uniform). ID lock the role out of literally everything else.

"You don't know how to use the pump-shotgun"

That, and command could empower MP's IC'ly to carry out executions planetside. With the current rules. There isn't actually a rule that executions HAVE to be done in the brig viewing chamber. Command can designate other places. The wiki example of an execution announcement has it being done in briefing, of all places. it doesn't strike me as unreasonable for them to get authorization to do it at a secure FOB.

Or just give MP's the porta-brigs other servers have (with a timer added), or ways to build 1-person cells at the FOB.

Ok, so more IC stuff, I'm fine with that. At least it's not like this guy's idea to make every insub case bwoinkable and punishable by mods/admemes (he actually suggested it on gitlab lmao)

[MedicInDisquise]

Ok, so more IC stuff, I'm fine with that. At least it's not like this guy's idea to make every insub case bwoinkable and punishable by mods/admemes (he actually suggested it on gitlab lmao)

What kind of IC punishments can we even have? Queen has de-evolve, which makes perfect sense. Outside of MP's deploying to the surface to arrest marines actively fighting (lol), there's not much we have. PVT is a cool punishment... but that's NEXT round and requires admemes. Going in the same style as the queen's de-evolve, perhaps CIC staff could ID lock marine weapons to actually force them to do what you want them to do. Although I can already see the grief complaints.

Another good idea that's been brought up is just making people benefit from being around aSL/aSL. Make their orders passive or last longer. The problem with that, is that it puts squads using FTs at a minor disadvantage, and that's already barely used.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

What kind of IC punishments can we even have? Queen has de-evolve, which makes perfect sense. Outside of MP's deploying to the surface to arrest marines actively fighting (lol), there's not much we have. PVT is a cool punishment... but that's NEXT round and requires admemes. Going in the same style as the queen's de-evolve, perhaps CIC staff could ID lock marine weapons to actually force them to do what you want them to do. Although I can already see the grief complaints.

Another good idea that's been brought up is just making people benefit from being around aSL/aSL. Make their orders passive or last longer. The problem with that, is that it puts squads using FTs at a minor disadvantage, and that's already barely used.

De-evolve is an extremely hazardous tool because it's a lose-lose situation every time (not only do you lose upgrade ticks on the de-evolved xeno, but you also lose any respect and care that player has for you).

SLs and aSLs are planned (devs said it) to have an aura of bonus stats around them to reward people for sticking with their SLs/aSLs. I imagine this would extend to FT leaders too. And their issued Orders will last longer.

Generally, I don't really like OOC methods to enforce IC stuff, especially tiny stuff like insub. It sucks the fun out of the game, and it limits the stuff you can do. Sure you can see that insub is a problem in some situation, but in another, it could make for some RP at the very least. Also, we can't simply enforce every single rule in a server that regularly gets 150+ players at high pop, where you can get bald/bad/non-English/underage players in the mix.

[Enigmachine]

MP's are allowed to do AO arrests in 'secure areas' and follow that up with hot pursuit into injun territory if needed. In that case they're only supposed to give up hostiles come into the vicinity. Problem is, no MP wants to do that short of a handful like Solidfury.

'Cause no MP's outside staff players want to get fragged by squad players, screamed at by the CIC officers they're supposed to be the right-hands of, or risk a bwoink for taking initiative in a grey area or one where the actions WILL generate OOC salt. Like, at the moment I'm not enforcing shit planetside without express orders to.

[Chemical]

Generally, I don't really like OOC methods to enforce IC stuff, especially tiny stuff like insub. It sucks the fun out of the game, and it limits the stuff you can do. Sure you can see that insub is a problem in some situation, but in another, it could make for some RP at the very least. Also, we can't simply enforce every single rule in a server that regularly gets 150+ players at high pop, where you can get bald/bad/non-English/underage players in the mix.

That may be your opinion, but calling me a bad leader because I have a different one is immature. If SL's were not followed simply because of their leadership then that would be fine, but SL's are often not followed simply because the marines don't care enough. Maybe it's not that big of a problem to you, but it is to me. If the community doesn't care enough to change that, then that's fine, but don't use ad hominems when I'm just stating my opinion on what I see as a genuine problem.