Game Balance Discussion

[speedybst]

No, that was intentional with the motion tracker, to make you choose between forewarning or better firepower.

[crazyh206]

I'm reading an entire guide.... Where's the Empress?

And the queen mother where is she huh?

[crazyh206]

it kinda sucks how few grenades the marines get though, and if you dare try to turn a corner with a hugger camping it you're absolutely fucked. That's really my only gripe with aliens at the moment.
Unfortunately no one wants to be the squad leader for some stupid reason so no one uses the motion tracker and no one uses the grenades.
It also sucks that you cant use the motion tracker without it being in your hand, perhaps make it able to be used while it's on your suit storage? Otherwise all you can use is a crappy pistol or SMG.

The SL and grenade bit i can understand due to everyone moaning at SL's when they give a 'bullshit' command when it's reasonable and don't follow it while the grenades well that is due to most fuck ups with the nades since either they get spat at by a spitter when they are about to throw it dropping it right next to their fellow marines and that everyone pushes even when you say gonna throw a nade and it ends up hitting the guy that pushes in front of you

[helios345]

And the queen mother where is she huh?

Hah the marines really wouldn't stand a chance then. She'd just turn them all into mind-slaves.

[MrJJJ]

Or she just crush them all….

[apophis775]

So, I am thinking of a few "nerfs" for the aliens, we'll try them out over this weekend, if the work, we'll keep them, if not, i'll revert them.

Nerfs planned:

all alien tackes, decrease by 1 second

Warrior speed decrease by 15%

Pulling, decreases alien speed, by 50%

Hugger-stun, decreased by 15 seconds.

If anyone has input on these, let me know.

[MrJJJ]

So, I am thinking of a few "nerfs" for the aliens, we'll try them out over this weekend, if the work, we'll keep them, if not, i'll revert them.

Nerfs planned:

all alien tackes, decrease by 1 second

Warrior speed decrease by 15%

Pulling, decreases alien speed, by 50%

Hugger-stun, decreased by 15 seconds.

If anyone has input on these, let me know.

OOOOOOOOOOO
YUUUUUUSUSUSUSSU!
+!!1111!

[HalfdeadKiller]

Oh god Apop please. Please put these in. I will be so happy.

[Dolth]

Shotgun nerfing is not necessary. It's hard to carry a lot of ammo, you need to pump it, macro or not it can easily be messed up, now it does 40 damage ( magnum is 45, okay ). If you believe it shoots too fast then don't remove the damage but slow the weapon speed. Right now, you could of delete the weapon it'd be the same.

EDIT : 5 bullets to KO a warrior, 2 more point blank to kill it. Which makes 7 shots, out of 8 max loaded in the gun, which takes litterally 15 seconds to fully load. Assuming you can't have more than 60-90 rounds, it's not ballanced. It's totally -deleted-.

My post might means pretty much shit, but frankly, and imo : No.

And re-edit, it wasn't suggested, it was done, log on CM you'll see.

[MrJJJ]

Shotguns nerfed because of macro? are you serious apop

[Aeleto]

Shotguns got nerfed to shit. Should've fixed the SAW instead of breaking the ideal gun.

[razerwing]

I've always thought that Aliens should have a stronger Early Game advantage than the marines. It just never made sense to me why the aliens were 'supposed' to be weak early game when the marines are supposed to have no knowledge of them (and thus can't really take advantage of their weakness because of shouts of Meta-gaming) and not beginning to weaken later on in the game. I mean, the idea is that this Hive wiped out an entire research station. The same thing happened aboard Sevastapol station in Isolation. Sure, there were only a few that people lived to tell about, but what did you find when you hit the engine room there was a fully formed HIVE.

So, why not give the Aliens the early game advantage? Give them a hive in Engineering so that they have to go build another one in wherever they usually put their bloody hives.

[helios345]

Please make shotguns do their normal damage amount again. Shotguns are a pain in the ass to reload and now there is literally no reason to use them because they do less damage than a fucking magnum. Just make them 80 damage again, the whole point of a shotgun is to do a lot of damage in a small amount of time, but the tradeoff is that they take forever to reload from empty and you're fucked against multiple aliens if you have to reload. This was a bad nerf.

[apophis775]

Yes, shotguns are getting their damage dropped back down to something acceptable. I believe, 40 is what i decided, they USED to be 80. You can thank an MP, who was able to quickly robust a T3 alien from full, with a shotgun by rapid-macroing.

[razerwing]

So you've effectively taken out the Shotgun from the game then, by halving it's damage. Also, that statement with the MP robusting a T3 alien seems juuuust a bit hypocritical.

"I can ***not*** balance for skill. some people, are INCREDEBLY ROBUST as aliens, that doesn't mean, I nerf ALL the aliens."

The macro was figured out and spread around to combat the slow pump times that made the shotgun hell to use. IN FACT multiple suggestions made about making an Auto or Semi Auto shotgun and utilizing box magazines were denied on the grounds that the damage balanced out with the firing speed and reload speed. Now, firing speed isn't so much of an issue, but reloading speed is still a bitch. So, if you're going to drop it down to half it's damage, why not make it a semi auto shotty, with a box mag reloading system now?

Or, why not return it to it's original state, since I don't see a lot of people using the shotgun effectively, or at all. The few people who CAN get kills with it tend to deserve them. Also, the earlier statement about not nerfing EVERYONE just because a HANDFUL of people are good with that particular thing.

[mosshadow]

Can't you just make shotguns like revolvers and SAWs where theres a large gap between each shot"Not ready to fire yet" ?

[helios345]

The variable firing modes are an interesting touch.

[mosshadow]

Honestly if this game were truly trying to be "RP-worthy", then the marines would be able to fire fully automatic rather than use a shitty semi-auto mode constantly. But since there's such an obvious bias against the marines by the staff, that'll never happen.

Xenos just got nerfed btw.

[Juninho77]

Xenos just got nerfed btw.

How's that?

[mosshadow]

How's that?

Times for everything such as tackle and facehugger stun decreased and warrior speed decreased

[HalfdeadKiller]

The fastest I could get a shotgun to pump and fire, was just a tad bit slower than click spamming the M41A's fire rate, with perfect timing of the macro. Spamming the macro by mashing the key, or using the repeat function, simply ejected the shells faster than I could click spam. If the shotgun now does less damage than a one handed revolver, and can't be stored in suit storage, and takes longer to reload than a 44, I don't see how it is a viable gun anymore. Lowering the shotgun damage to 60 might have been a better idea in my opinion.

[helios345]

It was a half-assed nerf that honestly made me chuckle. Apophis even said last night that "I never noticed people used macros for the shotgun because I never use it". See that's a problem right there, you shouldn't be nerfing something you haven't even tested yet.

[HalfdeadKiller]

We have used Shotgun macros for a loooong time. Its probably the most useful macro to be honest. Its what makes the shotgun functionally useable in my opinion. And no one has complained as far as I know about the shotgun. Shotgun takes a while to reload, is difficult to carry, but packs a punch. Also T3 aliens are not the -best- castes in my opinion. They tend to be more easily killed than their T2 counterparts, and in some cases even perform worse. The lack of vent crawl is a drawback in mobility. But they make up for those with other abilities. I've always pictured alien evolution as not, "Evolve into a better form of alien", but as a "Evolve into an alien with different uses". Different situations call for different aliens, be it warriors, runners, ravagers, or spitters.

[Dolth]

Also, shotgun robusting a t3 alien? If you're alone and facing EVEN a runner, you might the best player in the world, he'll just pounce, tackle, remove your hardsuit helmet (cause you are for sure a robust player) and then retackle you, and drop a hugger on your face, devour you, go into a vent, vomits you in a nest, remove your armor, belt, and backpack etc.
Mhm? Ah well, shotgun ain't helping, because you ain't carrying two shotgun at a time. (You can't, cause the macro will open a window and ask you which shotgun you want to pump.)

Then again, a carrier fuck you up as much as a runner if you're alone OR even in a group. And once more, shotgun or not, you're fucked. Even in a groupfight you can't do much with a shotgun, shooting few rounds in melee which will make aliens go back, then take 3 years to reload, even while having a box in the pocket, drag and dropping on yourself to do a fast reload takes time. So yeah, once it's unloaded, if you're fighting even a drone, you're kinda fucked because he'll regenerate as fast as you reload the damn shotgun, and if you want to fully reload it. Well, have fun dancing thirty seconds with a drone at your ass, assuming it's just a drone and not an acid spitter or a pouncer.

So far, the game was ballanced imo, you could heavily fucked by either marines, either aliens, but hey, that's the game. Nerfing won't help and I am pretty sure few weeks or a month later now, people will say Hey, double magnum is op, it has the firerate of a m41 and in 4 shots you KO a t1 alien, wow. And yeah, even with a riotshield and a knife you can robust a ravager if you're good. Lets nerf shields because it sometimes blocks tackles. Not even gonna speak with prodder + smg...

[helios345]

The shotgun actually had a niche use before the nerf, now it literally shoots rock salt. GG. Expect to see pulse rifles everywhere now.