Current Alien/Marine victory ratio over ~1 week

[Steelpoint]

Prehaps just literally make a map based around Hadley's Hope. Make most of the map consist of the colony itself, maybe have a atmo processor or a small cave network on the outskirts of the map (Atmo could be very hard to get into but have only one entrance while caves are open ended but lack natural defense).

Meaning the Marines and Aliens have a lot more ground to cover and more close quarters combat.

[Steelpoint]

Double post but I found some good refernance images of Hadley's Hope, what's interesting is that it has five levels, two surface and three sub-surface levels.

Lvl 1
Lvl 2
SubLvl1
SubLvl2
SubLvl3

Might not be a bad map, and it should not be too hard to make. Hell I might even be able to do it.

[chimp]

What if there was a isolated comms building that also had to be secured, just for roleplay reasons or maybe it would help in some way, e.g. comms from the ground to sulaco suffer intermittent cut outs due to weather on the planet, restoring the comms system solves this. Or maybe the dropship can only be controlled from the sulaco, unless the comms building is setup in which case it be ordered from the ground.

[Steelpoint]

Here's a ten minute mock up of the south entrance to Hadleys Hope as an example. Just spruce up with blood and stuff and shablam!

► Show Spoiler

The way the current game, map and balance wise, is set up is that Marines are put on the defence for most of the game. The Aliens hold most of the cards when Marines are pushing upward whereas defensvily Marines do fairly well. Forcing Marines to cover more ground, as well as making the main conflict area very large, might improve things.

Who knows.

[Dyne]

Its not only the map. Most aliens are faster and have night vision, so they have maneuver advantage.

[Jeser]

Here's a ten minute mock up of the south entrance to Hadleys Hope as an example. Just spruce up with blood and stuff and shablam!

► Show Spoiler

The way the current game, map and balance wise, is set up is that Marines are put on the defence for most of the game. The Aliens hold most of the cards when Marines are pushing upward whereas defensvily Marines do fairly well. Forcing Marines to cover more ground, as well as making the main conflict area very large, might improve things.

Who knows.

Hm. This building is interesting as FoB.

[Steelpoint]

I spent a few more minutes touching up the design, its meant to represent the main entrance to the colony, the general idea you'll get is that the survivors fortified the main entrance but those fortifications were overrun, thus meaning most destruction/death will be seen at the entrance whereas the rest of the facility is mostly untouched since most of the humans back there were corned and captured easily.

► Show Spoiler

Not saying I'm about to work on a entire map, but my opinion is just that I think a single large facility like Hadley's Hope might be a interesting map, its has five levels so it might be amusing.

Overall in my opinion the Human FoB needs to be something that not only has to be easier to defend, but also harder to retreat from. Making it more of a do or die where a retreat would require the survivors to break out of the alien attack to retreat to a LZ.

In addition making the main colony larger gives the Marines a lot more to explore with, in addition trying the generator room to some far away area, like a underground part, forces the Marines to venture deeper into the colony to get the power on.

Edit: Newer image cause why not

► Show Spoiler

[Adjective]

@Mr. Penguin

This is why the Nostromo map wasn't too horrible. The hunt for the hive in all of 9 good possible locations was a lot better than the meta knowledge of it always being in one. It was also a much further walk from the LZ to set up the power in Nostromo than it is in this current Lazarus map.

[TopHatPenguin]

@Mr. Penguin

This is why the Nostromo map wasn't too horrible. The hunt for the hive in all of 9 good possible locations was a lot better than the meta knowledge of it always being in one. It was also a much further walk from the LZ to set up the power in Nostromo than it is in this current Lazarus map.

To be honest the only bad bits about nostromos was the death trap one way into viro or XB, besides that it was a pretty good map.


Oh and this as well.

[Jack McIntyre]

I would say that is usually the case however I have seen marines cut down in the FOB when the aliens actually work together and find a weak point where the marines in the FOB are not at and then attack it. Fun thing about the marines, if we lose the LZ, you literally take away their lifeline to the Sulaco. Surprise that is a little hint for victory, just don't expect to take it easily. I can tell you personally anytime I am BO, XO, or the one time I was CO, I order all marines to defend that point with their lives. Because here is the thing, you take away the LZ, the marines on the planet can no longer get up to the Sulaco, sure there is the drop pod, but I have noticed it isn't used once the marines go in on the first wave. And you are right the marines turtle in the FOB, but can you blame them. They literally are put on a planet where they are soon facing the perfect killing machines. And I can personally tell you I think I can also add to the alien's losing. They don't try to take the "hosts" alive all the time. Literally have seen lots of enemies kill perfectly good hosts either by accident or because they may not have known they were infected already, although saw one kill a infected host in the hive...not sure what that was about, but here is the thing. This map you literally have to pretend you are back in WWI. It is a battle of attrition.

Aliens you have some great abilities yes, but picture the map as trench warfare. If you don't try to pick off little small groups with hit and run tactics or anything like that and just throw yourself against the Human's "trench" you will basically be wiped out. I played alien once and we had aliens who just kept attacking FOB by themselves, doesn't matter if you are T3 or a hunter or whatever. You will get wrecked because you are trying to solo a mob of marines holding their position in good positions. They want you to attack them and batter yourself against their walls, that is how you fight a attrition battle, we are thining your numbers. You only have so many people, you can't afford to lose them in pointless battles to try and gain ground. The same is about marines, if we tried to take every dome and push all the way to your hive without a whole marine squad charge, we would get wiped out because we would be spread to thin and the ground between each dome can be cut off by the aliens. Again cutting the supply lines to that dome and leaving another squad to have to push to help break the siege of the dome. It is literally just the map we are on. Aliens if you want to outnumber us then you have to work together instead of thinking oh I will attack, or the queen will order a attack, which is stupid. Again saw a this the one time I played xeno. We took the FOB when the marines had went up to fight a xeno or had a munity on board. Not sure which, but we should have fell back due to our numbers being small after we lost a lot from stupid hunters and such trying to take on groups of marines. Again 1v1 aliens will win especially with face huggers, if you try to 1v3 or 4 usually ends in death for you.

I know you can say this game is about role play, but i can tell you when I play command for the marines i am trying to keep everything in check, usually offering my own advice to things. Morale (so we don't face a mutiny), supplies (Because when your gun doesn't go bang you die), causalities and wounded (because more people equals more bodies to throw at your enemies), and supply lines (Aka the LZ). So I am sorry, but the leader on both teams the Queen and the CO/XO/BO or whoever the hell is in charge needs to actually think tactically otherwise you are just literally throwing your guys at the meat grinder. Alright end of my long and lovely time on basic military strategy

[Adjective]

To be honest the only bad bits about nostromos was the death trap one way into viro or XB, besides that it was a pretty good map.


Oh and this as well.

I can't tell you how many times I wen't hivelord and blocked off every single tile I could with resin doors..

[andre1999]

Ladys and gentlemen, we are forgeting something, the Xeno players might wanna have "Stories" and "Roleplaying" too, is that possible when they have a less than 0.75 W/L ratio? Maybe, but it is damn hard, and like people have said before, people want epic stories of heroic acts and badassery, but if your team loses because of imbalance, great stories are ni-impossible to get, i have maybe one story as a xenomo- Infact, scrab that, i have none, do i feel satisfied with having no stories as a Xeno? No, no i don't. Do i feel as if i want atleast some stories as Xeno? Yes, yes i do, how i feel i whould get more is with a fair chance of winning. everytime i play as a Xeno, i know as a fact, that my chances of getting anything worth remembering is very slim. Mean while, my marine has multiple stories, all of which make me lean more and more towards Marine side, i enjoy playing as a Xeno, but i want more to it then just being there as a "Prop" for the marines to get captured/killed by, and shoot at till it dies, i am not a story dispensor, i wanna make them for my self AND others, not only others.

Remember, it's a GAME, not a Movie for Marines to make.

[Dyne]

Yes, stories and roleplaying come with losses too.
Especially with losses. Last stands, heroic sacrifices for the Queen, and so on.
A story can be weaved out of anything.

Roleplaying is not dependant on W/L ratio. You either do it- or you dont.
So far I saw much more success on the battlefield from players who do roleplay, on both sides.

[andre1999]

Yes, stories and roleplaying come with losses too.
Especially with losses. Last stands, heroic sacrifices for the Queen, and so on.
A story can be weaved out of anything.

Roleplaying is not dependant on W/L ratio. You either do it- or you dont.
So far I saw much more success on the battlefield from players who do roleplay, on both sides.

Problem is, aliens never get "Heroic" last stands, they just get shot abit, then die, nothing more to it, i have seen maybe two last stands that you could call "Heroic" both of which was like a lone runner nest spamming or some T3 rampaging.

Nothing heroic about having all your fellow Xenos get shot then being bumm rushed by Marines.

AND, it doesn't help how Xenos no longer have ANY way to RP with marines other then to be "2spooks4meh" after the PAIs lost that power...

[Dyne]

Problem is, aliens never get "Heroic" last stands, they just get shot abit, then die, nothing more to it, i have seen maybe two last stands that you could call "Heroic" both of which was like a lone runner nest spamming or some T3 rampaging.

Nothing heroic about having all your fellow Xenos get shot then being bumm rushed by Marines.

Then its a problem with aliens.
Heroism comes from communication.

I saw and participated in some cool hunting packs, quite heroic.
It also improves the win:loss ratio.

So- get better.

[andre1999]

Then its a problem with aliens.
Heroism comes from communication.

I saw and participated in some cool hunting packs, quite heroic.
It also improves the win:loss ratio.

So- get better.

Remember how i also mentioned RP? Well, before on Nostromo, PAIs could talk to xenos, which made some intresting things happen, such as the aliens fooling the humans they are nice untill they could strike them. And being a PAI was also more fun with that power.

And as meny people have stated before me, Balance is for the greater intrest of BOTH sides, if Marines win more than xenos, people will stop playing as Xenos, if Xenos win more, people will wanna play more Xenos.

[Dyne]

pAI's can still talk to xenos, actually.
If there is a Queen that doesnt communicate, or aliens dont form packs- no "balance" will ensue.

I like to play fore the underdog, personally.
Its not winning or losing, but the process.

[andre1999]

pAI's can still talk to xenos, actually.
If there is a Queen that doesnt communicate, or aliens dont form packs- no "balance" will ensue.

I like to play fore the underdog, personally.
Its not winning or losing, but the process.

You are really the odd one out, i care about the journey yes, but i whould like a FAIR chance of winning, cause this is not a movie, it's a game, they are meant to have balance, remember that Marines can function without command, the aliens really can't, without a queen that lays eggs and jelly, they just lose, there is nothing they can do about it. Which to me says something needs to change. But if you insist that everything is fine, then i will ignore this from now on.

[Dyne]

Look, lets pretend next round all aliums get +25% HP.
Will they win more? Sure.

Will there be more coordination and roleplay? I think NO.
Just more stupid runners who never talk.
Only this time they wont die.

EDIT: And Marines cant function without command. Trust me.
Its less evident then Queen not laying eggs, but the effects are the same.

YET ANOTHER EDIT:
Playing for the underdog doesn't mean I only like to lose.
I like to play for the weaker side, and see it win, during to superior skill, change of tactics, better organization, more aggressiveness, seizing the initiative,
and all that.
Felt important to point that out, so I dont come out as a complete masochists.

[Mycroft Macarthur]

i genuinely dont understand where people keep getting this weird idea that SS13 is a roleplaying game.

oh we roleplay to be sure and it adds quite alot to the game, but alot of you seem to have this strange impression that we're basically D&D in space and given the nature of the game that just......isn't viable, if you want to play a tabletop roleplaying game then play a tabletop roleplaying game, its easier then ever to find one compared to when the older members of our community were kids, go to roll20 and do some searching and i guarantee you'll find something.

but all this mention of crafting a story like this is some tolkien-esque epic....what you guys seem to forget is the fact that this IS a game is where those stories come from, some of the greatest stories i've ever heard or experienced from this game basically came from people who were in all honesty, GRIEFING, but the nature of the game ended up making those stories legendary to the point that we'll still be retelling that shit years after the fact, dont believe me? if you ever get me in voice ask me about the time i killed almost all the crew of goonserv with nothing but a crate of weed and got banned for two weeks, if you want an example that isn't mine heres an audiobook version of such a legend someone else experienced that if you haven't heard, your life is incomplete until you've let it into your life.

https://soundcloud.com/stephanosrex/honk-honk-butt

in fact to old timers like myself you arent a real SS13 player if you havent either experienced or at least witnessed a story like this yourself at least ONE time.

the point im trying to make is, if crafting stories is so important to you then yes, gameplay mechanics and the balance therein SHOULD matter to you, in fact they should be the most important thing in the world to you, if people dont do much roleplay or crafting of stories now its because it simply isn't viable right now because every round is the exact same fucking THING over and over and OVER again, doing ANYTHING else isn't just undesirable because theres no reason to but its almost guaranteed to cost you the round, if you want to tell or craft stories then you need for our rounds to be a different experience every time with as many potentially changing variables as possible, our server has INCREDIBLE opportunity to make for some of the best and most exciting stories of all time if we genuinely wanted to but the game in its current state has very little room for that sort of thing, less then we ever had in pre-alpha certainly.

[Dyne]

All interesting points.
In short, and I'll comment in detail in another thread, its a roleplaying game and a roleplaying server as it says so at the door- aka lobby and rules.

[Kreydis]

i genuinely dont understand where people keep getting this weird idea that SS13 is a roleplaying game.

in fact to old timers like myself you arent a real SS13 player if you havent either experienced or at least witnessed a story like this yourself at least ONE time.

It's not like this is a medium role play server or anything. Let alone the fact that most of the servers populations hinge on the fact that they are role playing servers. Not to say the the griefing isn't fucking fun or make the game more interesting, but to say you don't understand how SS13 is a role playing game at it's core, is a little crazy.

[TopHatPenguin]

Could we possibly get an update on this win/loss ratio?

Just to see how things are going balance wise.

[Rahlzel]

Sure.

As of 2015-09-29,

Alien Major: 34
Alien Minor: 9 (Evac)

Marine Major: 18
Marine Minor: 0 (Both sides die - rare)

[Wickedtemp]

Hm... Seems to have flipped.

Is there anything that can be given to the Marines to help even this out a little? Or is this due to bouts of incompetence on their side?