Doctors don't use weapons you say?

[snow5445]

Not really the case with service pistols, just about anyone can handle one.

What? What? WWHAT?!!! PIstols kick far far far more than rifles due to the smaller barrel size and the inablility to brace it against your shoulder among various other things. My .357 kicks way more than my ar-15 and it's chambered for 5.56 caliber round. Shit i even load P+ rounds in their and it still kicks less. Pistols are harder to aim. To control. to comepensate for. Expecaially a .45 (Service pistol) Caliber round. Despite what movies have taught you about guns. A .45 is a pretty big ass round. It's actually one of the reasons the 1911 went into effect of the previous .38 (I think) Was because of stopping power.

IF YOU WANT TO LEARN TO SHOOT USE A RIFLE!!

[Wickedtemp]

What? What? WWHAT?!!! PIstols kick far far far more than rifles due to the smaller barrel size and the inablility to brace it against your shoulder among various other things. My .357 kicks way more than my ar-15 and it's chambered for 5.56 caliber round. Shit i even load P+ rounds in their and it still kicks less. Pistols are harder to aim. To control. to comepensate for. Expecaially a .45 (Service pistol) Caliber round. Despite what movies have taught you about guns. A .45 is a pretty big ass round. It's actually one of the reasons the 1911 went into effect of the previous .38 (I think) Was because of stopping power.

IF YOU WANT TO LEARN TO SHOOT USE A RIFLE!!

Except it...really isn't. An average adult wouldn't have a problem shooting a .45, I speak from experience because as a teenager I handled it well enough when my dad and I went target shooting. .357's for me, anyways, were more difficult to handle because it was a smaller revolver and I have large hands, they fit a glock much better.

Would a rifle be easier to shoot accurately? Probably. But to handle in general, I think I'd go with the pistol.

So back to the thread, I would think doctors could handle the service pistol and maybe an SMG, (No dual wielding though), no magnums or rifles and such.

[apophis775]

What? What? WWHAT?!!! PIstols kick far far far more than rifles due to the smaller barrel size and the inablility to brace it against your shoulder among various other things. My .357 kicks way more than my ar-15 and it's chambered for 5.56 caliber round. Shit i even load P+ rounds in their and it still kicks less. Pistols are harder to aim. To control. to comepensate for. Expecaially a .45 (Service pistol) Caliber round. Despite what movies have taught you about guns. A .45 is a pretty big ass round. It's actually one of the reasons the 1911 went into effect of the previous .38 (I think) Was because of stopping power.

IF YOU WANT TO LEARN TO SHOOT USE A RIFLE!!

I have to wonder again, if you were ever actually in any military branch ever.

As far as service pistols for the Us military it goes (backward)


M9 Beretta (1985 - Done to be more NATO compatible, as it uses a 9mm NATO round, just like the MP5)
Colt 1911 (1911 - Replaced the Colt 1898 revolver (final iteration of the Colt 1892))
Colt 1892 (1892 - replaced the 1873)
Colt 1873 (First "service" pistol using metal cartridges, also known as the "cattlemans revolver")




But not all rifles have less recoil than pistols. Yes, a piddly little AR-15 does (which fires a 5.56×45mm also know as a .223, the difference is nearly non-existant) have little recoil, but remember why. You've got a recoil compensator in the buttstock, not to mention the round isn't designed for penetration (like nearly any other rifle ever) because the thought is that "if we wound someone, we take 3 people out of the fight (the wounded and 2 to care for them) if we kill them, we take one", coincidentally, that's also the reason general riflemen are taught to "aim center mass", opposed to snipers aiming for the head. But remember, your not firing a wee baby 5.56×45mm, your firing a 10×24mm caseless. That's TWICE the size of the actual bullet. Not to mention, that the M41A is a PRETTY ADVANCED rifle, so it probably needs MORE than special training to use.


As far as pistols being harder to aim, LOLWUT? Pistols are MUCH easier to aim, fire, and get back onto target than rifles.

[snow5445]

I never considered the advanc

I have to wonder again, if you were ever actually in any military branch ever.

As far as service pistols for the Us military it goes (backward)


M9 Beretta (1985 - Done to be more NATO compatible, as it uses a 9mm NATO round, just like the MP5)
Colt 1911 (1911 - Replaced the Colt 1898 revolver (final iteration of the Colt 1892))
Colt 1892 (1892 - replaced the 1873)
Colt 1873 (First "service" pistol using metal cartridges, also known as the "cattlemans revolver")




But not all rifles have less recoil than pistols. Yes, a piddly little AR-15 does (which fires a 5.56×45mm also know as a .223, the difference is nearly non-existant) have little recoil, but remember why. You've got a recoil compensator in the buttstock, not to mention the round isn't designed for penetration (like nearly any other rifle ever) because the thought is that "if we wound someone, we take 3 people out of the fight (the wounded and 2 to care for them) if we kill them, we take one", coincidentally, that's also the reason general riflemen are taught to "aim center mass", opposed to snipers aiming for the head. But remember, your not firing a wee baby 5.56×45mm, your firing a 10×24mm caseless. That's TWICE the size of the actual bullet. Not to mention, that the M41A is a PRETTY ADVANCED rifle, so it probably needs MORE than special training to use.


As far as pistols being harder to aim, LOLWUT? Pistols are MUCH easier to aim, fire, and get back onto target than rifles.

I will concede that futuristic rifles may require futuristic training. And yes I realize that other rifles kick more than many handguns. For instance may s&w 500 mag actually is rather easy to control while I have an old Hawthorne Viking 12 ga that wants to rip my arm off. But I personally think rifles are far easier to handle and target.

[MrGabol100]

Let's be real, who doesn't know how to use a weapon? Any kind of it? Like, god, it's a fucking trigger and a mag pull, sometimes you have to use the shitty lever after putting in a new mag, that's it.

Doctors should be allowed to take weapons only when boarded.

[Mono]

Why is it such a big deal for doctors to not be allowed to use guns? How can you feel anymore safe than surrounded by a hundred marines armed to the teeth and ready to protect you, if only to make sure there someone to fix them? Honestly it seem the only reason for doctors to think they need to pick up a gun is with ooc thought that xenos will come through the vents/up the ladders and kill you. If you are worried ask a marine to stand guard. Never should a doctor need to stash a pistol in their bag 'just in case'. Hell even when boarded, doctors shouldn't need to pick up a weapon. They should be running to hide behind the marines so that they can do keep the marines fighting.

TL;DR - Theres really no excuse for a doctor to have a gun other then the ooc need to protect yourself from xenos that the marines are already there to protect you from

[MrGabol100]

Why is it such a big deal for doctors to not be allowed to use guns? How can you feel anymore safe than surrounded by a hundred marines armed to the teeth and ready to protect you, if only to make sure there someone to fix them? Honestly it seem the only reason for doctors to think they need to pick up a gun is with ooc thought that xenos will come through the vents/up the ladders and kill you. If you are worried ask a marine to stand guard. Never should a doctor need to stash a pistol in their bag 'just in case'. Hell even when boarded, doctors shouldn't need to pick up a weapon. They should be running to hide behind the marines so that they can do keep the marines fighting.

TL;DR - Theres really no excuse for a doctor to have a gun other then the ooc need to protect yourself from xenos that the marines are already there to protect you from

Of course not, because doctors aren't people, and they'll trust some random marines to protect their lives, even though they failed to patrol the planet.

Totally...

[Wickedtemp]

Why is it such a big deal for doctors to not be allowed to use guns? How can you feel anymore safe than surrounded by a hundred marines armed to the teeth and ready to protect you, if only to make sure there someone to fix them? Honestly it seem the only reason for doctors to think they need to pick up a gun is with ooc thought that xenos will come through the vents/up the ladders and kill you. If you are worried ask a marine to stand guard. Never should a doctor need to stash a pistol in their bag 'just in case'. Hell even when boarded, doctors shouldn't need to pick up a weapon. They should be running to hide behind the marines so that they can do keep the marines fighting.

TL;DR - Theres really no excuse for a doctor to have a gun other then the ooc need to protect yourself from xenos that the marines are already there to protect you from

Well if the marines are getting ripped apart and dragged away, they can't defend you anymore.

Besides, if you were on the Sulaco and it was boarded by xenos, yeah you would probably run and hide. Anyone would. But don't pretend for a second you wouldn't grab a small gun first so maybe, MAYBE you'll have a chance.

[Mono]

Of course not, because doctors aren't people, and they'll trust some random marines to protect their lives, even though they failed to patrol the planet.

Totally...

If we want to go from an rp standpoint, doctors would most likely never know much about whats going on down on the planet, beyond rumors and what they gather from the reports of injured marines and possibly info given by the cmo. Marines wouldnt even be using general comms for discussion, there would be a general marines comms for all squads to discuss sensitive matters on. In the event a larva was removed from a marine or something doctors would be let in on whats going on. But that would likely require extreme amounts of heavy rp. Where we are now doctors have little to no choice but to trust the marines with their lives, the same way marine shave to trust doctors with their lives. Bit of a symbiotic relationship.

Well if the marines are getting ripped apart and dragged away, they can't defend you anymore.

Besides, if you were on the Sulaco and it was boarded by xenos, yeah you would probably run and hide. Anyone would. But don't pretend for a second you wouldn't grab a small gun first so maybe, MAYBE you'll have a chance.

The key point here is that marines are getting slaughtered in front of you. Sure you might grab a pistol and run off to hide. But you arent going to grab the pistol, plus more ammo, plus a helmet, plus attachments, plus armor, etc. On of the problems I notice is that something like a runner may pop into surgery only to be met by a doctor yackety saxxing around the surgery table, running and gunning like a true marine. If this thing that you've heard has been tearing through heavily armed marines shows up, you aren't going to suddenly awaken as the one true robust doctor. You are going to be firing at it in a panic, likely missing half the damn shots, and shitting your pants. My suggestion would be to take a page out of goonstation and tg's book and give all noncombat personnel an innate clumsy gene, that makes them just as likely to shoot themselves as they are to shoot anything else.

[Wickedtemp]

Some counterpoints and quotes from earlier in the discussion, see above post

•I mean once the Sulaco is boarded, THEN and ONLY THEN can doctors arm themselves with a service pistol (Again, SMG at the most). No attachments, no armor (aside from maybe a helmet because I've been shot multiple times in the head by marines who were aiming for an alien and it's just common sense).

• Almost every round I've played as a doctor I've ended up learning about these hostile "Reptile-Scorpion-Dog-Things", and how they threw a "Crab-Spider" on a guys face and then a large snake-worm exploded out. Yes, it requires RP, I normally play on a High-RP Server so I normally RP.

• Yes, you shouldn't see a doctor fully equipped in marine gear with weapons and attachments to boot, I'm not saying they should do that. I'm not saying that the doctors should be on the front lines, but once chaos erupts and everything is fucked, you really can't blame someone for trying to defend themselves.

So, what I propose: Allow doctors to grab a service pistol in the event the Sulaco is boarded, maybe another mag for it. Then allow them to get a helmet so they don't get shot in the head by a marine by accident, but they can't put actual armor on ((Maybe a vest, if that could be arranged? I don't know.)) because people need to be able to look at them and know they're medical staff.

Personally I would be in favor of an emergency locker in medbay only accessible by the CMO or another high ranking official that would have light armor vests (White and red so you know it's medical).

[snow5445]

•I mean once the Sulaco is boarded, THEN and ONLY THEN can doctors arm themselves with a service pistol (Again, SMG at the most). No attachments, no armor (aside from maybe a helmet because I've been shot multiple times in the head by marines who were aiming for an alien and it's just common sense).

• Almost every round I've played as a doctor I've ended up learning about these hostile "Reptile-Scorpion-Dog-Things", and how they threw a "Crab-Spider" on a guys face and then a large snake-worm exploded out. Yes, it requires RP, I normally play on a High-RP Server so I normally RP.

• Yes, you shouldn't see a doctor fully equipped in marine gear with weapons and attachments to boot, I'm not saying they should do that. I'm not saying that the doctors should be on the front lines, but once chaos erupts and everything is fucked, you really can't blame someone for trying to defend themselves.

So, what I propose: Allow doctors to grab a service pistol in the event the Sulaco is boarded, maybe another mag for it. Then allow them to get a helmet so they don't get shot in the head by a marine by accident, but they can't put actual armor on ((Maybe a vest, if that could be arranged? I don't know.)) because people need to be able to look at them and know they're medical staff.

Personally I would be in favor of an emergency locker in medbay only accessible by the CMO or another high ranking official that would have light armor vests (White and red so you know it's medical).

I have to agree on this. If the sulaco is boarded. You can't ban a doctor for not laying down and dying. Runner walks in on OR doctor picks up marines weapon and begins to fire. Sure im ok with this makes sense you know. But i really don't like having a ship full of clowns. Though we do have a hit miss mechanic. It would make sense for doctors to miss more than marines.

[Jack McIntyre]

Right since I am actually in the navy, and I chatted with my recruiter about this stuff because we make jokes when people talk about how they are marine medics and such and I had no idea it was this bad when I usually just ignored it. So where to start....

1. In the navy if you are a surgeon you are not going to be armed, sorry, but you go on a navy ship, I can bet you that any medical personnel on that ship will not even be carrying a sidearm because guess what, you are on a ship....surrounded by personnel who will in case of boarding push the boarders back, your job is to make sure you keep those guys stitched up during the fighting. Sooo in question if the ship gets boarded, guess what a doctor is suppose to be doing instead of grabbing a gun and ignoring the marines who are dying in their medbay who could be out helping push back the xenos if you were doing your job? And before you tell me it doesn't happen I can give you plenty of rounds where as soon as the ship was boarded the doctors grabbed guns and ran for the hanger. Sidenote if you are a doctor and did this, then you are a idiot and should probably ignore that job.

2. If you are a doctor you did see that they don't mention knives right? Or you know any other fucking object in medbay. You are telling me you have a lazer scapel or something in your OR and you are not thinking of using it? Or I know, say you are working on a marine, I can bet you 9/10 that marine will have a weapon on them, guess what you should do with it in case they are trying to open the door while you are working? You know then you can use one and hey look at that you didn't have to be carrying it around! You had someone else lug that thing around for ya to use!

3. I'm sorry, but just no to the doctors wearing vests or helmets. When I am assigned to a ship when I have to go out with the fleet if I ever see a surgeon/doctor wearing a fucking helmet in medbay...I am going to make fun of them so bad. So again sorry, but would have to say that is a stupid idea, also could be considered meta because let's be honest we all know the helmets stop the huggers....those fucking....huggers....

4. In the time it takes for the sulaco to be boarded and you to run and grab that pistol is more time you could have been treating a marine because if the xenos are coming up then the marines are going to have a lot of dead and wounded that will need cloned and treated. While you go off grabbing ammo and such is time you could spend on getting more guns up in the fight. I will take 5 guys over 1 doctor....sorry, but more is better.

Also finally pistols are stupid easy to fire then rifles. Apop is right AR-15's no recoil, but shit I fired a .45 and I did the stupid smiley face thing from lethal weapon. It isn't that hard to compensate for recoil once you get a feel for it. And also before you think that Apop is being unfair be happy that he is letting marines carry sidearms. It is standard procedure that most enlisted guys don't get to get issued sidearms so technically if he wanted to he could make it so that only the people who should have them, it's a long list like the MP's, command, senior NCO's, and other ranks or positions get them and the grunts don't. If you want to carry a gun I would say just be a marine because if you are want to carry a gun so bad then maybe medical is not the right job for ya.

[Wickedtemp]

Right since I am actually in the navy, and I chatted with my recruiter about this stuff because we make jokes when people talk about how they are marine medics and such and I had no idea it was this bad when I usually just ignored it. So where to start....

1. In the navy if you are a surgeon you are not going to be armed, sorry, but you go on a navy ship, I can bet you that any medical personnel on that ship will not even be carrying a sidearm because guess what, you are on a ship....surrounded by personnel who will in case of boarding push the boarders back, your job is to make sure you keep those guys stitched up during the fighting. Sooo in question if the ship gets boarded, guess what a doctor is suppose to be doing instead of grabbing a gun and ignoring the marines who are dying in their medbay who could be out helping push back the xenos if you were doing your job? And before you tell me it doesn't happen I can give you plenty of rounds where as soon as the ship was boarded the doctors grabbed guns and ran for the hanger. Sidenote if you are a doctor and did this, then you are a idiot and should probably ignore that job.

2. If you are a doctor you did see that they don't mention knives right? Or you know any other fucking object in medbay. You are telling me you have a lazer scapel or something in your OR and you are not thinking of using it? Or I know, say you are working on a marine, I can bet you 9/10 that marine will have a weapon on them, guess what you should do with it in case they are trying to open the door while you are working? You know then you can use one and hey look at that you didn't have to be carrying it around! You had someone else lug that thing around for ya to use!

3. I'm sorry, but just no to the doctors wearing vests or helmets. When I am assigned to a ship when I have to go out with the fleet if I ever see a surgeon/doctor wearing a fucking helmet in medbay...I am going to make fun of them so bad. So again sorry, but would have to say that is a stupid idea, also could be considered meta because let's be honest we all know the helmets stop the huggers....those fucking....huggers....

4. In the time it takes for the sulaco to be boarded and you to run and grab that pistol is more time you could have been treating a marine because if the xenos are coming up then the marines are going to have a lot of dead and wounded that will need cloned and treated. While you go off grabbing ammo and such is time you could spend on getting more guns up in the fight. I will take 5 guys over 1 doctor....sorry, but more is better.

Also finally pistols are stupid easy to fire then rifles. Apop is right AR-15's no recoil, but shit I fired a .45 and I did the stupid smiley face thing from lethal weapon. It isn't that hard to compensate for recoil once you get a feel for it. And also before you think that Apop is being unfair be happy that he is letting marines carry sidearms. It is standard procedure that most enlisted guys don't get to get issued sidearms so technically if he wanted to he could make it so that only the people who should have them, it's a long list like the MP's, command, senior NCO's, and other ranks or positions get them and the grunts don't. If you want to carry a gun I would say just be a marine because if you are want to carry a gun so bad then maybe medical is not the right job for ya.

Regarding your first point: At what point did I say it was acceptable for a doctor to grab a gun and ignore dying patients in medbay? I even addressed that issue, people who do that should get a job-ban from medical. We have ahelps for a reason. I explicitly said numerous times that a doctor should be treating people, not running after aliens and shooting at them, but in the case of SELF DEFENSE, it's either that or they go after the aliens with scalpels. And I don't know about you, but if I saw a massive, dark-red alien that had a tail with a Vlad-The-Impaler Complex, even if I didn't know about the acid blood, I wouldn't even bother.

Regarding your second point: Already addressed using scalpels... I do tend to use the bone saw when a larva bursts however. Anyways, the rule isn't just about not allowing doctors to CARRY weapons. It's about not letting them USE firearms, period, ever. Which is dumb for reasons I've mentioned time and time again. Since you seem to be okay with a doctor using a weapon as long as it's brought to them, I'm not sure why you're posting against our desire to get the rule changed.

Regarding your third point: Right... bullets are flying around and people are shooting each other by accident in the crossfire and you see a doctor with a helmet on. Are you REALLY going to make fun of them? Because I'm not suggesting that they grab a helmet at round-start. All of this is under the condition that the Sulaco was boarded as I have stated repeatedly. Over. And over.

Regarding your fourth point: In the time it took for the marines to grab attachments, they could have gotten down to the planet and saved the survivors since they decided to investigate the distress call faster... It honestly doesn't take long to run from medbay to the mess-hall, grab a service pistol and an extra mag, and a helmet -because people are shooting everywhere and you'd be stupid to NOT have one in an environment like that- and then run back. Literally like 30 seconds.

Regarding your final point: If it isn't hard to handle a service pistol, then a doctor would be able to handle one. And this isn't about me wanting to carry a gun just for the sake of carrying a gun, this is about common sense for the most part. This is what people would likely do in the situation, because I don't know about you, but even if I'm the freakin' JANITOR, and all of the sudden we're being boarded by freakish aliens with spikes on their tails, I'm grabbing a gun and I'm keeping it with me, and nobody in that situation would likely give a shit because they're more worried about surviving. It's self preservation.



So. I covered the...
--Balance issue -- A few doctors with service pistols won't likely change the tide of battle, but it might at least help the doctors survive longer and properly defend themselves
--Rambo-Doctor issue, -- Deal with them like we've normally dealt with them. Report, ahelp, ban from medical/the server
--Oaths/Geneva issue, -- Self preservation would likely take priority over any oath they might have sworn
--"That's against regulations.' issue, -- Also topped by self preservation
--"Doctors couldn't handle a gun." issue, -- Already been covered, a .45 isn't that difficult to handle. -- and others. Did I miss anything?


Now, it seems that despite me saying so numerous times, people still don't entirely understand what I'm proposing so here's a scenario based on the "average" round.

-Doctors get to work preparing medbay...
-First patient comes in with an "Unknown Body" in their chest... Probably shrapnel, right?
-WTF, fuckin' worm snake thing, what the hell is this? Good thing we got it out in time else it would've eaten his insides probably.
-Marine says a Crab-Spider got on his face, it's likely this is the cause of the worm.
- More patients come in but there are only 2 OR's.
-A marine bursts, the doctor may or may not kill it with a bone-saw.

Time passes, the round continues...

- Sulaco is boarded, holy fuck the aliens are in the hangar, oh my Lord Helix.
- A doctor realizes the aliens are likely going to come up into medbay at some point and decides some self-defense is in order, he goes to grab a service pistol and a helmet because there's about to be a bunch of bullets in the air.
- He runs back to medbay and continues to treat people as best as he can.
- Aliens start breaking into medbay. He grabs the patient he was working on, puts them on a roller and runs out towards Escape with the rest of the marines. It's possible he'll fire a couple times if an alien gets to close to him or his patient.
- They hunker down in evac, he's treating everyone he can with what little he has left.
- The aliens are breaking into the shuttle!
- He fires the entire clip at the aliens breaking in, along with the rest of the still combat-able marines on-board.
- Either the aliens got through and killed everyone, or the aliens died. GG on both parts.


This is okay. This is how I would do it. This is what I would consider to be acceptable use of a firearm by a doctor and the rest of medical staff. This is what I'm pushing for.

-I do NOT think that doctors can leave their patients to go fight.
-I do NOT think that doctors can pimp their weapons out with attachments and get other supplies (aside from a helmet because common sense)
-I do NOT think that doctors can get combat gear before the Sulaco is boarded, and only then it will be limited to helmets, service pistols, and SMG's at the ABSOLUTE MOST... Grenades might actually be debatable since it's basically "Activate and throw at your enemies." but probably not the best idea to let the doctor do that unless everyone else has a broken hand.

If a doctor does those things, then they don't know how to play medical and they shouldn't be playing medical, and nobody would miss them if they were job-banned from medical.

[MrGabol100]

Doctors should be able to carry firearms, armor, and whatever they can loot/find, etc... of any kind, just once boarded, but not to go to the frontline in purpose ever.

After taking whatever they can, they should head to the medbay INMEDIATELY to continue to heal patients until they evac/reppel aliens.

[Wickedtemp]

Doctors should be able to carry firearms, armor, and whatever they can loot/find, etc... of any kind, just once boarded, but not to go to the frontline in purpose ever.

After taking whatever they can, they should head to the medbay INMEDIATELY to continue to heal patients until they evac/reppel aliens.

Asking for a bit much there, bud. As it stands, doctors can't even pick up a straw to shoot spitballs, let alone an assault rifle. Assault rifles, especially those advanced as the ones in CM, would take quite a bit of training to use. Shotguns, up for debate but I would say 'No.' for those just because of the damage, same for the magnum.

However, service pistols and SMGs do not deal much damage and would be easier to handle and use, so when the Sulaco is boarded I think Medical should be able to get a helmet and a pistol (and again, maybe an SMG).

As for the armor, that would make it harder to differentiate between doctors and marines so I would say 'No.' for the armor as well, save for helmets. Unless, like how the coloration of the Marine armor changes based on the ID of the wearer, if something was put in like that for Medical staff -like maybe having it blank-white- I could see Medical having their own LIGHT armor protection. Otherwise, that would be a no-go.

[apophis775]

Right since I am actually in the navy, and I chatted with my recruiter about this stuff because we make jokes when people talk about how they are marine medics and such and I had no idea it was this bad when I usually just ignored it. So where to start....

1. In the navy if you are a surgeon you are not going to be armed, sorry, but you go on a navy ship, I can bet you that any medical personnel on that ship will not even be carrying a sidearm because guess what, you are on a ship....surrounded by personnel who will in case of boarding push the boarders back, your job is to make sure you keep those guys stitched up during the fighting. Sooo in question if the ship gets boarded, guess what a doctor is suppose to be doing instead of grabbing a gun and ignoring the marines who are dying in their medbay who could be out helping push back the xenos if you were doing your job? And before you tell me it doesn't happen I can give you plenty of rounds where as soon as the ship was boarded the doctors grabbed guns and ran for the hanger. Sidenote if you are a doctor and did this, then you are a idiot and should probably ignore that job.

2. If you are a doctor you did see that they don't mention knives right? Or you know any other fucking object in medbay. You are telling me you have a lazer scapel or something in your OR and you are not thinking of using it? Or I know, say you are working on a marine, I can bet you 9/10 that marine will have a weapon on them, guess what you should do with it in case they are trying to open the door while you are working? You know then you can use one and hey look at that you didn't have to be carrying it around! You had someone else lug that thing around for ya to use!

3. I'm sorry, but just no to the doctors wearing vests or helmets. When I am assigned to a ship when I have to go out with the fleet if I ever see a surgeon/doctor wearing a fucking helmet in medbay...I am going to make fun of them so bad. So again sorry, but would have to say that is a stupid idea, also could be considered meta because let's be honest we all know the helmets stop the huggers....those fucking....huggers....

4. In the time it takes for the sulaco to be boarded and you to run and grab that pistol is more time you could have been treating a marine because if the xenos are coming up then the marines are going to have a lot of dead and wounded that will need cloned and treated. While you go off grabbing ammo and such is time you could spend on getting more guns up in the fight. I will take 5 guys over 1 doctor....sorry, but more is better.

Also finally pistols are stupid easy to fire then rifles. Apop is right AR-15's no recoil, but shit I fired a .45 and I did the stupid smiley face thing from lethal weapon. It isn't that hard to compensate for recoil once you get a feel for it. And also before you think that Apop is being unfair be happy that he is letting marines carry sidearms. It is standard procedure that most enlisted guys don't get to get issued sidearms so technically if he wanted to he could make it so that only the people who should have them, it's a long list like the MP's, command, senior NCO's, and other ranks or positions get them and the grunts don't. If you want to carry a gun I would say just be a marine because if you are want to carry a gun so bad then maybe medical is not the right job for ya.

Pretty much this, is what I've been saying the whole time.


It MIGHT be acceptable, if a doctor is in surgery and there's a marine in there being operated on, and an alien bursts in, for the doctor to grab the weapon of the marine and fire some shots before his death. But he should NEVER be moving around with a weapon, or armored up.

It's not fucking realistic. Yes, i know "Sci-fi game with aliums not realism" and also "realism shouldn't intefere with mechanics" but you know what? This IS a mechanic. As a doctor, your taking a PACIFIST JOB to HEAL, not to fight aliums.

I'm not going to change the rule, nor my mind. This game-mode, is the FIRST of a few (which we are currently developing). If you HONESTLY can't play with the "doctors can't use guns" rule, then don't play doctor.

If you ABSOLUTLY think we need a change, I'll look into a "medbay MP" job, making an MP who's entire job, is to babysit medbay.

[Mac]

It's worth noting that the US Marines don't have their own doctors. They use Navy medical professionals instead. But as far as the issue goes, it's frankly the Host's server and while the community may disagree we can play by his rules or leave.

[Dyne]

IRL the only issue in an ad-hoc situation is how far the frontline is.
If the frontline is close, or suddenly becomes close, then armor, helmets, and weapons become the norm.
Protecting your patients does involve not getting them killed/eaten.

As there is no real safe place to evacuate medbay in the Sulaco situation an armed response from any human is only natural.
Alien menace doesnt fall under any part of the Geneva convention in our timeline.
Non-human monstrosities that want to infect and kill you do call for as much a fight as you can manage, doctor or janitor.

But whats more to the point is this rule, as it exists now (a blanket ban) gets broken at least once every day.
Realism or not (as far as it applies to futuristic settings) currently you are trying to command the sun not to rise, never a good way in sustainable policy making.
Moreover, I personally dont understand the reason for this rule, even after playing for these couple of months, and reading these pages of somewhat heated discussion.

As far as fiction goes both classical and modern takes on dr. Watson show he was a decent shot in that far off Afghanistan and back home;).

My summary is simple. This rule in its extreme form (no guns for doctors at any time) gets broken every day, and will get broken.
Its not logical from an IC viewpoint (yes, lets not shoot this man-eating tiger) and not enforceable.
Therefore its better to adapt or remove it, simply sticking to the umbrella rules that already regulate IC behavior.

[Arachnidnexus]

Honestly, even just removing the operating room vents would help since nobody wants to sit around doing nothing for an hour only to have a Hunter pounce them, kill them, and take them out of the round while they're alt-tabbed doing something else. It can be really frustrating to sit around doing nothing as a doctor to have a Hunter sneak aboard and kill all the doctors meaning there is no IC way for you to get revived that round. While I don't use a gun as a doctor, I definitely understand why they would want to have even a smidgen of a chance against xenos who do seem to target doctors a lot.

[HurttleTurtle]

First of all. How would a hunter just happen to sneak on the shuttle and then fly it to the ship? Secondly, by the time Aliens actually get the the shuttle and start to come to the ship, Command knows something is up and usually makes an announcement about it. Also, Doctors have robust weapons called... Surgical Tools.

[Dyne]

First of all. How would a hunter just happen to sneak on the shuttle and then fly it to the ship?

Easily. By chance or on purpose. Also runners can be born on board from escaping larva.

Secondly, by the time Aliens actually get the the shuttle and start to come to the ship, Command knows something is up and usually makes an announcement about it.

And current rule still forbids even militant doctors to arm themselves, even in this situation.
Also expecting Command to do timely announcements is optimistic, but thats another issue.

Also, Doctors have robust weapons called... Surgical Tools.

Current rules dont forbid doctors from using guns.
Current rules forbid doctors from using weapons. Ergo, if Surgical Tools are weapons, as you state- they cant be used.

[MrGabol100]

First of all. How would a hunter just happen to sneak on the shuttle and then fly it to the ship? Secondly, by the time Aliens actually get the the shuttle and start to come to the ship, Command knows something is up and usually makes an announcement about it. Also, Doctors have robust weapons called... Surgical Tools.

Yeah, well, tonight a single alien hunter wiped out half of medbay, and got into the bridge and slashed me into completely irreparable situation without a medic.

[Dyne]

Yeah, well, tonight a single alien hunter wiped out half of medbay, and got into the bridge and slashed me into completely irreparable situation without a medic.

Thats what gun-free zones do- attract violent alien terrorists.
Would be fun if it wouldn't be so sad IRL and in game.

[MrGabol100]

Thats what gun-free zones do- attract violent alien terrorists.
Would be fun if it wouldn't be so sad IRL and in game.

tfw allahu akbar

[apophis775]

If we allowed doctors weapons, it would shift the focus. Also by "weapons" we are referring to guns/rockets/flamethrowers.

But here's the thing, if we allowed doctors to have weapons, it would be ONLY under specific conditions (sulaco has been mass-boarded). So that "sneaky hunter" situation, would still be possible, because you wouldn't be allowed weapons in that situation.

Basically, we don't want doctors "stocking up" on weapons just in case, or shooting marines because they "feel" threatened. As a doctor, your primary focus is to HEAL OTHERS, you are also a LIMITED SUPPLY, and the marines SHOULD be taking extreme measures to protect you. A perfect example why, is last night. Last night, the aliens were attacking and the 2 doctors had weapons and engaged the aliens (despite medbay not even being threatened). They were QUICKLY killed and then the marines were fighting a battle of attrition against the aliens and the carrier, being unable to "heal" anyone infected, they were basically fighting a losing battle.


Unfortunately, when doctors are allowed weapons, they convert themselves to front-line troops instead of staying as DOCTORS. Which, as some of you (who have donated and have access to the dev forums) know, doctors are shortly going to be classified as "civilians".