Xeno building discussion

Generic, on-topic discussion about Colonial Marines.
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Toroic
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Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 06 Oct 2015, 02:54

There are a few topics I wanted to discuss about xeno building:

1) Don't stack doors.

Multiple doors in a row while fleeing is a massive cause of xeno death. In front of you, you have 3 block deep tissue paper. Behind you, you have the xeno equivalent of sticky resin on any xeno trying to flee. Every xeno who stacks doors is an active detriment to the hive.

2) If you aren't going to build useful tunnels, don't evolve into hivelord.

Drones still have acid, are much faster, and can evolve into queens or carriers if needed. They can also vent crawl. We all love the Xeno space pimps, but unless you're building tunnels to places people want to go, don't.

3) Clear resin walls have very limited use for xenos due to their senses, and are a lot less durable.

They also let humans see in, which screws up the roar ambush your queen was going to coordinate with carriers.

4) If you're putting up multiple tunnels out of one hive, have the entrances be together in a well-protected place.


What I personally like to do is make a 3x3 room (walls are 5x5), and put the tunnel entrance in the (generally South-East) corner, which signifies it goes to the landing zone. Hydroponics is usually in the middle and makes a good forward base. If we all followed this convention, we wouldn't have so many xenos confused as to where the 4 random tunnels in the hive went.

Example:
[]{}{}{}[]
{}      {}
{}  1.  {}
{}2.3.4.{}
[]{}{}{}[]
Key:

[] = resin wall
{} = resin door
1 = tunnel to hydroponics
2 = Tunnel to southwest jungle/southwest dome
3 = Tunnel to south of map (variable based on where the front line is, but I've had success along the south wall)
4 = Tunnel to landing zone

This gives us a visually distinct structure that can be an obvious way for xenos to quickly travel to all parts of the map, no matter how many proxy bases there are.

These also can double as escape routes, as there is no reason not to have them in the deepest part of the base.

5) Put weeds down everywhere.

Weeds are healing, mobility, and camouflage for xenos. They hide hunters better, allow quick fortification, and just generally save your team's ass over and over.


Who else has something to add?
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by WyattH » 06 Oct 2015, 03:10

Hivelord is worth evolving into if you're willing to spend the time sticky-resining the whole hive, makes it a complete bitch for the marines when they invade

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Quakes72 » 06 Oct 2015, 04:16

And hive lords frankly look more bad-ass. I am all for being a hive lord. The only real downfall I see to being a hive lord is that if the queen manages to die you cant evolve into a new one, but if the aliens dont have a larva or drone in the hive while you are a hive lord chances are you have lost anyways.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by TopHatPenguin » 06 Oct 2015, 05:12

3) Clear resin walls have very limited use for xenos due to their senses, and are a lot less durable.


I believe you had meant to say resin membrane. :)
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Derpislav » 06 Oct 2015, 06:03

Toros wrote:1) Don't stack doors.

Multiple doors in a row while fleeing is a massive cause of xeno death. In front of you, you have 3 block deep tissue paper. Behind you, you have the xeno equivalent of sticky resin on any xeno trying to flee. Every xeno who stacks doors is an active detriment to the hive.
I've said that many, many times, even as the queen, only to get called a dipshit by the entire hive. Wtf people.
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Arachnidnexus » 06 Oct 2015, 07:42

Better to spam semi-random resin walls to break LOS and litter a place with sticky resin. It allows for really nice flanking as well.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Inaf » 06 Oct 2015, 10:19

Found myself some building tricks i want to share:
*When you need to build-up some wide passage, start with building walls like this:
_ [ ] _ _ _ [ ]
_ _ _ [ ] _ _
_ [ ] _ _ _ [ ]
_ _ _ [ ] _ _
_ [ ] _ _ _ [ ]
1. Such structures are fast to build and already prevent humans from shooting your ass from long distances.
2. It is really simple to develop them into better mazes afterwards.

*When building maze
1. Never leave one narrow passage, always leave entances in every passage so you can flank humans that are going through passage
2. Always leave some tiles in passages free of walls and doors otherwise humans will fuck up your maze and start cutting the way through.
3. Don't forget about dead ends in your mazes. They should be various and sudden.
4. Place huggers everywhere: around corners, after doors...
5. Place huggers under xeno and human corpses. I M B A
6. Make some passages lead not into your hive, but straight outside maze
7. stack walls only if you have a lot of time, usually you do not not need to do it. Maybe only in deadends or human buildings/ships.

*Place plants under walls.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Meww » 06 Oct 2015, 20:34

^

I those hies are the best, with variation for no straight lines- I've also had great success doing that with walls with occasional doors, then FILLING it with sticky resin and putting an egg on every single sticky resin tile. open them all up, and it is the worst nightmare of any marine. you HAVE to stop and shoot everything you can, because huggers are waiting everywhere- most just jump to grenades, wasting them before they get to the aliens

Another mean tactic is making large square rooms and doing this pattern- they think they've reached the end of the room and there's another giant room with the same maze. Really kills morale.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by bustered1 » 07 Oct 2015, 12:39

Alright, someone has to say this at one point. When building nests....I found this to be the most effective:

_[]_[]_[]_[]_
[]_[]_[]_[]_[]
_[]_[]_[]_[]_
[]_[]_[]_[]_[]

[] = resin doors
_ = nests

This prevents many escapee's escaping.
Last edited by bustered1 on 07 Oct 2015, 12:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 07 Oct 2015, 12:42

bustered1 wrote:Alright, someone has to say this at one point. When building nests....I found this to be the most effective:

-[]-[]-[]-[]-
[]-[]-[]-[]-[]
-[]-[]-[]-[]-
[]-[]-[]-[]-[]


This prevents many escapee's escaping.
You're using a nest/door checkerboard, correct?
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by bustered1 » 07 Oct 2015, 12:42

Yeah I edited the picture to make more sense

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 07 Oct 2015, 13:18

My plan with all of this is to put together a xeno guide that is more comprehensive than what we have currently.

When I started, I knew what each caste did thanks to the wiki, but not how they fit into the alien strategies.
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Inaf » 07 Oct 2015, 13:29

bustered1 wrote:Alright, someone has to say this at one point. When building nests....I found this to be the most effective:

_[]_[]_[]_[]_
[]_[]_[]_[]_[]
_[]_[]_[]_[]_
[]_[]_[]_[]_[]

[] = resin doors
_ = nests

This prevents many escapee's escaping.
Well, I prefer smaller nest rooms - it is no use in big ones if you are going forward setting new proxy hives. And it is a good idea to add some jelly in each nest room so newborn larvas already know where to get it.
[x][x][x][x][x][x]
[x][|][_][|][_][x]
[x][_][|][_][|][x]
[x][|][_][--][_][x]
[x][_][|][_]***[x]
[x][x][ ][x][x][x]


[x]- wall
[_] - nest
[|] - door
[--] - membrane (so you will surely see jelly on your way to exit)
*** - jelly

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Aicean » 10 Dec 2015, 00:53

Long hallways for Boilers is also something to think about especially for hive defense.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Wickedtemp » 10 Dec 2015, 01:19

... This is actually going to be rather helpful for when I have to play as a drone, due to there not being any or due to an order by the Queen.

I suck at design. I really, really do. Minecraft? Box house. Terraria? Nicer looking box house. Minecraft decked out with mods that allow for rounded structures like domes? Box house.

But blocky nests tend to be easier to navigate due to, well... "JUST KEEP GOING NORTH THROUGH ALL THE SHIT, WE'LL REACH THEIR HIVE!" <- that.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 10 Dec 2015, 01:26

Wickedtemp wrote:... This is actually going to be rather helpful for when I have to play as a drone, due to there not being any or due to an order by the Queen.

I suck at design. I really, really do. Minecraft? Box house. Terraria? Nicer looking box house. Minecraft decked out with mods that allow for rounded structures like domes? Box house.

But blocky nests tend to be easier to navigate due to, well... "JUST KEEP GOING NORTH THROUGH ALL THE SHIT, WE'LL REACH THEIR HIVE!" <- that.
The problem with a maze nest is you end up confusing xeno players as well. It's a good design, but most marines know the layout of the caves anyways now, and know where the good nest locations are. So I prefer to plan that we will get invaded by robust marines who know the layout, and build to make it easy to counter attack them.
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Wickedtemp » 10 Dec 2015, 01:32

Yeah, and I'm fairly sure that most marines would just cut/shoot through the walls and continue going in a straight line, rather than try to navigate the maze even if the maze DOES end up having an exit.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 10 Dec 2015, 01:38

Wickedtemp wrote:Yeah, and I'm fairly sure that most marines would just cut/shoot through the walls and continue going in a straight line, rather than try to navigate the maze even if the maze DOES end up having an exit.
Sticky resin and egg spam works a lot better, but lately the issues during 9pm-2am central time (for me) is

1) Xenos can't get more than 10-15 xenos at a time, no matter how many hosts they get.

2) Marines finally figured out that their guns kill even a ravager in a fairly low number of shots, and if they just stick together and keep shooting, they'll probably win.

3) Marines are patrolling much better, which is making it much more difficult to attack the FOB. They used to just turtle in the center, now they flank as a group (which is easier due to lower xeno numbers)
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Wickedtemp » 10 Dec 2015, 01:44

Mhm. One round, I spent most of my time putting down as much sticky resin as I could as a drone. At the time I just kinda checker-nested, but I made the nest too large and figured out that if a marine could probably escape before I got to them as a drone... So, I know NOT to do that anymore...

After my death, I was looking forward to seeing how the marines would fair when they attacked the hive, I had hidden facehuggers everywhere, everything had sticky resin on it, it would be absolute hell...

The assault never happened. The Queen decided to just... not stay in the fucking hive, hardly ever... Xenos were wiped out so easily that round because of crap queen.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 10 Dec 2015, 02:20

Wickedtemp wrote:Mhm. One round, I spent most of my time putting down as much sticky resin as I could as a drone. At the time I just kinda checker-nested, but I made the nest too large and figured out that if a marine could probably escape before I got to them as a drone... So, I know NOT to do that anymore...

After my death, I was looking forward to seeing how the marines would fair when they attacked the hive, I had hidden facehuggers everywhere, everything had sticky resin on it, it would be absolute hell...

The assault never happened. The Queen decided to just... not stay in the fucking hive, hardly ever... Xenos were wiped out so easily that round because of crap queen.
Bad queens are the #1 cause of xeno losses, for the simple reasons that xenos are required to follow her orders, she oversees the nest design, and can order xenos to stick together in combat/ask larva to pick certain castes.

That said, I think it is impossible to play queen to her full potential without using macros. She has a lot of options and taking your eyes off the screen to click on a verb is silly.
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Wickedtemp » 10 Dec 2015, 02:27

Toroic wrote:
Bad queens are the #1 cause of xeno losses, for the simple reasons that xenos are required to follow her orders, she oversees the nest design, and can order xenos to stick together in combat/ask larva to pick certain castes.

That said, I think it is impossible to play queen to her full potential without using macros. She has a lot of options and taking your eyes off the screen to click on a verb is silly.
I've been playing since Alpha and I haven't given Queen a shot yet. I suppose I could, though, macros would be rather easy for me to do because I've got one of those gaming mouses with the buttons on the side. Room-mate gave it to me because he bought a new one. I'm still getting used to the buttons but I've put one on a pump-shotgun macro and another on a ready-tail-attack... They seem to work fine.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 10 Dec 2015, 02:35

Wickedtemp wrote: I've been playing since Alpha and I haven't given Queen a shot yet. I suppose I could, though, macros would be rather easy for me to do because I've got one of those gaming mouses with the buttons on the side. Room-mate gave it to me because he bought a new one. I'm still getting used to the buttons but I've put one on a pump-shotgun macro and another on a ready-tail-attack... They seem to work fine.
for queen, I like having shift W be weeds, shift D be build menu, shift R be roar. I like having egg laying on a macro too, but it isn't necessary.

Mostly being able to build quickly and roar on a time is critical.
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Wickedtemp » 10 Dec 2015, 02:38

I really should have a building menu and a Weeds macro... Might as well throw roaring in there as well, I mean, hell, I've got a deal-card macro for Christs sake... Why not.

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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Toroic » 10 Dec 2015, 02:43

Wickedtemp wrote:I really should have a building menu and a Weeds macro... Might as well throw roaring in there as well, I mean, hell, I've got a deal-card macro for Christs sake... Why not.
Like I said, the roar macro is nice for two reasons.

1) Instant roar

2) You can watch your exact plasma. When I'm near combat, I always keep 250 available. The bubble indicator is useless for that.
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Re: Xeno building discussion

Post by Wickedtemp » 10 Dec 2015, 02:46

Toroic wrote: Like I said, the roar macro is nice for two reasons.

1) Instant roar

2) You can watch your exact plasma. When I'm near combat, I always keep 250 available. The bubble indicator is useless for that.
I'll probably fix that up when I decide to do Queen...

Also, I have to ask, what kind of hive strategy would you say is useful for an area like the Prison, where you don't have as much free space to build?

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